WOV Oct 08 "Noi Bai" campaign bug fix... kinda...

[+malibu43 142]

I know I may be one of few that really enjoy campaigns as opposed to random single missions in the TW series. And, this may not be a ground breaking discovery, but I'm posting this anyway.

 

As many know, the Oct 08 patch introduced a bug in WOV that results in Air-to-Air squadrons being tasked with 90% air-to-ground missions, and normal A/G squadrons eventually being tasked to strike targets at airbases (usually Noi Bai) over and over again. The result is that campaigns are pretty much no longer playable.

 

I'm not sure exactly what causes this, but it has something to do with the way the campaign engine handles enemy air units and where they're based. I tried add and moving around air units in the WOV campaigns, and never got anything to work. However, today I tried just commenting out the aircrafttype= line for all of the MiG air units, basically removing them from the game. The result is that the campaigns funtion as normal - at least with regards to A/G missions (F-105's, A-6's, A-4's, etc...). With no enemy air units, A/A squadrons won't get tasked with any air to air, just air to ground.

 

But, hey, at least it's halfway fixed! Campaigns will work for A/G units, and you can always get A/A using single missions. I just figure a partially working campaign is better than one that doesn't work at all.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Yowza, interesting. Didn't know about this one. I retreated with tail between leggs back to 2006, although for grafix reasons, but am thinking of ways to get back to 2008.

[jomni 6]

Although latest patch for SF2V fixed this already. :D

So do you think they will fix the original WOV in the coming months?

Edited May 7, 2009 by jomni

[+malibu43 142]

Although latest patch for SF2V fixed this already. :D

So do you think they will fix the original WOV in the coming months?

 

Yeah, I know the SF2V patch fixed it, and I posted on TW forums hoping TK might give a hint as to whether or not the fix could be (or would be) implemented in WOV, either through another patch or something a user could mod. I never got an answer.

 

I really doubt he will patch WOx anymore. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint if he wants people to buy the new product.

Edited May 7, 2009 by malibu43

[+gerwin 450]

Just been messing around with this WOV campaign bug for a few hours,

now I was about to give up, and to get me some sleep.

But in a final attempt I pasted in this header from the SF2V fixpack INI,

and suddenly I had enemy aircraft in combination with target variation!

I kinda fear I am just confused now, so if someone else can verify this?

 

[CampaignData]

StartDate=03/02/1965

StartDateDeviation=0

EndDate=11/01/1968

RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE

ForceWithInitiative=1

MaxMissions=50

NormalMissionRate=180

NormalMissionRateDeviation=10

OffensiveMissionRate=30

OffensiveMissionRateDeviation=15

StartScreen=CampaignStart4.bmp

StartText=

CampaignBaseScreen=CampaignStart4.bmp

CampaignEndWinScreen=CampaignEndWin2.bmp

CampaignEndLoseScreen=CampaignEndLose2.bmp

CampaignEndStallScreen=CampaignEndWin2.bmp

CampaignEndWinText=wovRTEnd.txt

CampaignEndLoseText=wovRTEnd.txt

CampaignEndStallText=wovRTEnd.txt

 

[Force001]

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Nation=USAF

BaseArea=Saigon

AirOffensive[001].Primary=WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[001].Secondary=NAVAL_BASE,BRIDGE

AirOffensive[002].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[002].Secondary=BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[003].Primary=NAVAL_BASE

AirOffensive[003].Secondary=BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[004].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[004].Secondary=BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[005].Primary=FUEL_STORAGE

AirOffensive[005].Secondary=BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[006].Primary=BRIDGE,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[006].Secondary=BRIDGE,FUEL_STORAGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[007].Primary=WAREHOUSE,FUEL_STORAGE

AirOffensive[007].Secondary=NAVAL_BASE,BRIDGE,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[008].Primary=WEAPON_FACTORY,BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE

AirOffensive[008].Secondary=FUEL_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[009].Primary=POWER_PLANT,HARBOR,BRIDGE

AirOffensive[009].Secondary=WEAPON_FACTORY,LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,FUEL_STORAGE,BRIDGE,NAVAL_BASE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[010].Primary=ANY

AirOffensive[010].Secondary=ANY

GroundOffensiveAllowed=FALSE

StartGroundOffensive=100

StartInterdiction=1

Morale=100

Supply=80

NormalSupplyRate=25

OffensiveSupplyRate=-20

DefensiveSupplyRate=-5

SupplyForOffensive=60

AircraftReplacementTime=180

AircraftReplacement=60

GroundUnitReplacementTime=180

GroundUnitReplacement=100

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=180

StartAirDefenseLevel=0

RulesOfEngagement=TRUE

UseFAC=TRUE

LimitTargetToActiveRunway=FALSE

MaxSecondaryStrikes=2

 

[Force002]

Alignment=ENEMY

Nation=NVietnam

BaseArea=Hanoi

AirOffensive[001].Primary=WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[001].Secondary=FUEL_STORAGE

AirOffensive[002].Primary=OIL_REFINERY,FUEL_STORAGE

AirOffensive[002].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING

AirOffensive[003].Primary=SMALL_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[003].Secondary=WAREHOUSE,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[004].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[004].Secondary=OIL_REFINERY,FUEL_STORAGE

AirOffensive[005].Primary=MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[005].Secondary=HANGAR,AMMO_STORAGE

AirOffensive[006].Primary=OIL_REFINERY,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[006].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING

AirOffensive[007].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[007].Secondary=MEDIUM_RUNWAY,SMALL_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[008].Primary=CHEMICAL_WEAPONS_PLANT

AirOffensive[008].Secondary=OIL_REFINERY,COMM_BUILDING,POWER_PLANT

AirOffensive[009].Primary=COMMAND_BUILDING

AirOffensive[009].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,CHEMICAL_WEAPONS_PLANT

AirOffensive[010].Primary=ANY

AirOffensive[010].Secondary=ANY

GroundOffensiveAllowed=FALSE

StartGroundOffensive=100

StartInterdiction=100

Morale=100

Supply=50

NormalSupplyRate=20

OffensiveSupplyRate=-20

DefensiveSupplyRate=-10

SupplyForOffensive=100

AircraftReplacementTime=180

AircraftReplacement=30

GroundUnitReplacementTime=180

GroundUnitReplacement=200

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=180

StartAirDefenseLevel=1

MaxSecondaryStrikes=0

RandomCAP=FALSE

[+gerwin 450]

Just been messing around with this WOV campaign bug for a few hours, now I was about to give up, and to get me some sleep. But in a final attempt I pasted in this header from the SF2V fixpack INI, and suddenly I had enemy aircraft in combination with target variation! I kinda fear I am just confused now, so if someone else can verify this?

 

I tested it some more, the AirOffensive[] lines made most of the difference. So yes, AFAIK the campaign is fixed now. but I haven't played an entire campaign through yet, to test it. Attached is a fixed campaing ini for WOV patched to the 2008 version. All changes made are commented.

 

The SF2V campaign file has another difference, instead of upgrading VPAF units to a new aircraft, it often disbands a unit at a certain date, then creates a new one a day later. This has not been copied over, as I don't understand the reason for this.

 

// Wings over Vietnam: Rolling Thunder Campaign Fix

// GB 21-10-2009

// Resolves the "Noi Bay Airfield" priority, disregarding other targets more and more as campaign time advances.

// This fix is based on the SF2V campaign file, so credits go to TK mostly.

// Also enables the KEP based VPAF aircraft, and places one NVA ground unit.

// Put this file in the following folder: WOV\CAMPAIGNS\ROLLINGTHUNDER

wovcamprt_data.zip

[+Baltika 84]

Great detective work there

 

I'm off to re-install WoV with 08 patches

 

Cheers,

 

Baltika

[+eburger68 195]

gerwin:

 

You wrote:

 

The SF2V campaign file has another difference, instead of upgrading VPAF units to a new aircraft, it often disbands a unit at a certain date, then creates a new one a day later. This has not been copied over, as I don't understand the reason for this.

 

That's not a change that we introduced. I fiddled with some of the dates and specified different textures for some units, but the basic difference was there in the stock campaigns. I suspect that TK's historical research led him to do this. While I'm no expert on the VPAF, my understanding is that VPAF fighter regiments were occasionally disbanded and new ones formed, probably as a result of attrition of older aircraft and the acquisition of new aircraft from the USSR and PRC.

 

One potential benefit for game play is that even if a particular VPAF unit suffers devastating losses early on in the campaign, a fresh unit will be stood up within a matter of time, guaranteeing a fresh supply of MiGs to tangle with.

 

Please let us know how the campaign continues. I have given some thought to porting back the Expansion Pack NVN terrain, with all its changes and new goodies, to WoV. It wouldn't be that difficult a task at all, given that the SF2V and WoV terrains are pretty much the same to begin with and the fact that the Expansion Pack terrain uses Brain32's and CA_Stary's terrain mods, which were originally developed for WoV. Using a vastly expanded TARGETS.INI would definitely inject more flavor and variation into the WoV 2008 campaigns.

 

Eric L. Howes

[+gerwin 450]

That's not a change that we introduced. I fiddled with some of the dates and specified different textures for some units, but the basic difference was there in the stock campaigns. I suspect that TK's historical research led him to do this. While I'm no expert on the VPAF, my understanding is that VPAF fighter regiments were occasionally disbanded and new ones formed, probably as a result of attrition of older aircraft and the acquisition of new aircraft from the USSR and PRC.

One potential benefit for game play is that even if a particular VPAF unit suffers devastating losses early on in the campaign, a fresh unit will be stood up within a matter of time, guaranteeing a fresh supply of MiGs to tangle with.

Thanks for the info, I understand you speak as one of the developers of the SF2V fixpack / expansion pack.

That 'fresh supply of migs' idea crossed my mind too. One downside is that a player downing a lot of migs will not get the logical reward, being less migs in the sky.

 

Please let us know how the campaign continues. I have given some thought to porting back the Expansion Pack NVN terrain, with all its changes and new goodies, to WoV. It wouldn't be that difficult a task at all, given that the SF2V and WoV terrains are pretty much the same to begin with and the fact that the Expansion Pack terrain uses Brain32's and CA_Stary's terrain mods, which were originally developed for WoV. Using a vastly expanded TARGETS.INI would definitely inject more flavor and variation into the WoV 2008 campaigns.

Eric L. Howes

I don't know wheter I will make further tweaks to this campaign in the days ahead, or wheter I will playtest it further. The idea that the campaign was broken annoyed me, so with that fixed I am quite content again. I do have two 'base screens' for WOV that I might upload. Earlier I added DEUCES Treemod, plus I changed the targets file to have less SAM sites as it slowed things down. Besides that my WOV game is in its original state.

I have now idea what changed with the terrains since SF2V. I think I saw someting suggesting that there are maps of north and south Vietnam indiviually?

[+malibu43 142]

I have now idea what changed with the terrains since SF2V. I think I saw someting suggesting that there are maps of north and south Vietnam indiviually?

 

That was added by eburger and myself, as part of the expansion pack. SF2V still just has one map in its stock form.

[+gerwin 450]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Now I tried the campaign a little further, and unfortunately the Airfield attack priority showed up again...

So I have to take back the announcement that it was fixed. :(

 

I wonder what the AirOffensive[] variables do exactly? I tried AirOffensive[].FocusArea=Vinh for all entries, that kinda worked...

Edited October 21, 2009 by gerwin

[Vigilant 1]

I think, that the post 08 mission generator authomatically priorizes active airfields. I've also tried editing the "Airoffensive" entries, but the only change was that the carpet bombing of Noi Bay began at the fifth, not third mission...

IMHO the only solution is allow the VPAF units to be destroyed and then (like every 1/2 year) spawn new ones(to have migs). I've modified my campaing this way and after about 30 F-105 missions it still works well. If someone would be willing to test it further I'll post it here (I simply don't have the time now).

[+malibu43 142]

Well... it's been a while since I did all the work on this. I've since moved on to SF2V where it's not an issue.

 

But I will say this, I tried everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that I and others could think of to resolve this issue. Adding Mig Units, moving Mig units, changing supply levels and start dates for mig units, changing campaign parameters, start dates, supply levels, offensive priorities, supply levels, etc... I'm not going to rack my brain to remember everything I did - just trust me... I tried it all.

 

The bottom line is this:

 

1. Get SF2V or use the '06 WOV patch if want a properly functioning campaign.

2. If you want to use the '08 patch, you either:

a) Strike Noi Bai over and over again in campaigns with little to no A/A or,

b) Get no A/A at all in campaigns but varying strike targets.

 

That's just the way it is.

[+gerwin 450]

The bottom line is this:

1. Get SF2V or use the '06 WOV patch if want a properly functioning campaign.

2. If you want to use the '08 patch, you either:

a) Strike Noi Bai over and over again in campaigns with little to no A/A or,

b) Get no A/A at all in campaigns but varying strike targets.

That's just the way it is.

 

Yes, it seems so.

It even disregards the focusarea variables after some missions.

But I was thinking that when the SFP1, WOV and WOI campaigns work, what keeps a certain WOV campaign from working with the same binaries (.exe's/.dll's)?

[+malibu43 142]

Yes, it seems so.

It even disregards the focusarea variables after some missions.

But I was thinking that when the SFP1, WOV and WOI campaigns work, what keeps a certain WOV campaign from working with the same binaries (.exe's/.dll's)?

 

 

I believe it has to do with the fact that the campaign engine in the '08 patch wants to assign strke targets near ground offensives, but in WOV there are no ground offensives, so it goes after runways instead...?

[+eburger68 195]

Malibu43:

 

TK provided an explanation over at the ThirdWire forums:

 

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6952

 

the campaign code was changed in WOI to target airfields with enemy aircraft stationed (so the IDF attacks do not waste their sorties on empty airfields). This "broke" the WOV campaigns, which has only 1 airfield with enemy aircraft. SF2 campaign code is changed to handle this situation better.

 

Eric Howes

[+gerwin 450]

I believe it has to do with the fact that the campaign engine in the '08 patch wants to assign strke targets near ground offensives, but in WOV there are no ground offensives, so it goes after runways instead...?

that sounds plausible,

 

Considering TK's recent clarification on the subject: He changed the campaign engine for SF2V.

Now that is something we cannot do ourselves...

Or is it? we can transplant certain '06 or SF2V dll files to WOV '08.

I had bad experiences with doing so earlier, but '06 MissionManager.dll seems to work in a '08 WOV...

If that is the right dll to swap?

anyways, I have to take a break on this as I have to attend to some other things now.

[+gerwin 450]

I am quite sure the gold is in the flight\campaign.dll file. unfortunately campaign.dll is not interchangeable with older or newer versions of this file.

 

Now I masked some strings in this file relating to airfield targets. I cannot say for sure how things changed, all one can do is try some things and then see what the game does: It resulted in the WOV campaign generator picking other targets instead. It works at least up to six missions into a campaign.

 

I cannot distribute the modified dll file, so I made a patch instead. It is attached.

 

Hmm, Allthough the generated missions are looking good with the modified dll, I did get some lockups in the game. That is not nice.

[+gerwin 450]

Okay, this is a new patch (v0.2). It changes only one entry in campaign.dll and that makes the difference. I have had no stability problems in about 4 hours of testing. I also put my campaign datafile in the zip file, but it is not required.

Campaign_Fix.zip

[+eburger68 195]

Gerwin:

 

Interesting. How many missions have you played in your test campaign? Are there any airbase strikes at all, or have they been completely removed?

 

Eric L. Howes

[+gerwin 450]

Gerwin:

 

Interesting. How many missions have you played in your test campaign? Are there any airbase strikes at all, or have they been completely removed?

 

Eric L. Howes

Did about 5 to 10 missions for about 3 different campaigns each. As it is now you can be assigned airfield attack related missions, but also targeted are bridges, sampans, oil depots and truck convoys etc. All seems very random.

(When continuing a campaign after selecting 'restore dll to its original form' the Noi Bai issue is back immediately)

 

[+eburger68 195]

Gerwin:

 

I finally got around to trying your campaign patch on WoV 2008. I've got bad news and good news.

 

Bad news: after patching the Campaign.DLL with your tool, I got a CTD on that DLL within the first minute of the first mission in RT campaign flown with VF-21 F-4Bs.

 

Good news: after restoring the original DLL, I took a few hours and ported over the SF2V Expansion Pack NVN terrain, plus all the new ground objects (including air defenses), effects, environment mods, and a few other things -- basically everything but the aircraft from the Expansion Pack. Then I tried the same campaign as before. Result: I'm ten missions into the campaign and have yet to be tasked with hitting Noi Bai. I'm doing strikes every mission now, but I'm hitting everything but Noi Bai. In fact, I haven't even hit anything at an airfield yet.

 

There are still some glitches, though:

 

1) The VPAF's MiG force got wiped out in the first 3-4 missions, so every mission now is mud moving. I think we can work on that with some tricks from the SF2V campaigns.

 

2) The game completely disregards the ExportStartYear dates for all ground objects except stock ones. So, I've got SA-3s showing up in 1965 (they shouldn't start until 1973) and so forth. the solution is simple enough: change the Nation on those items to NVIETNAM, set Exported=FALSE, and then set the Service dates as you want. Still very annoying.

 

I'll keep on with the campaign to see what happens, but things look good so far. The upshot of this is that after finally uploading the Gold version of the SF2V Expansion Pack (hopefully within the next day or so) I could put together a WoV Terrain Upgrade pack for WoV 2006 and WoV 2008 for those who still don't have SF2V for whatever reason.

 

Eric L. Howes

[+Baltika 84]

Sounds good Eric, I for one would be interested in a WoV Oct '08 version of your campaign/upgrade pack.

 

I will be moving over to SF2 series, but not til I upgrade my hardware, which will not be until well into next year at earliest I suspect.

 

Cheers,

 

Baltika

[+eburger68 195]

Gerwin:

 

Quick update: I'm now 18 missions into the campaign. Still have yet to hit an airbase -- any airbase, much less Noi Bai.

 

Eric L. Howes

[+eburger68 195]

Folks:

 

Final update on my test campaign: I'm now 26 missions into the campaign. Missions 19-20 the game tasked me with hitting targets at Kep air base. The MiGs also came back those same missions -- and were based at Kep. They were swiftly put down. The game got Vinh-happy for a couple of missions, tasking me with targets at that port for 4-5 missions in a row. Once the targets there were exhausted, the campaign continued against targets elsewhere. I got one armed recon mission total. Even 26 missions into the campaign I'm not even close to exhausting all the targets or target areas that are available in the expanded VietnamSEA terrain. (And, I might add, I never hit Noi Bai airfield.)

 

Based on what I've seen, I think the problems that players have reported with the WoV 2008 campaign are actually the product of several bugs or issues. Start with the fact that the VPAF's MiG force gets wiped out early on in the campaign. After that, any unit capable of doing strikes is doing only strikes -- no air-to-air. Not surprisingly the game runs out of non-airfield targets rather quickly. In the whole terrain there are only four bridges, two power plants, one PT boat base, one factory complex, three harbor areas, and a handful of misc. single warehouses. That's not much to work with. Once the non-airfield targets get pounded to dust, the bug TK mentioned kicks in. With no non-airfield targets left and no MiGs to tangle with, the game tasks players with hitting the one working MiG airfield over and over and over.

 

Expanding the terrain with a wealth of new target areas pretty much breaks that vicious cycle. The lack of a credible MiG threat for long stretches is a problem, but fixable (I think). At any rate, that's the assessment I've come up with.

 

Eric L. Howes

Edited November 3, 2009 by eburger68