F-86H (HOG)

[+Zurawski 33]

Okay... Brain picking time.

 

So I'm working on the HOG and with all my research (what I do for all my projects) It's well established that the H's demise can at the hands of other planes either developed in parallel and in development that at birth rendered the H as obsolete. The majority of the H's were transitioned to Reserve units and they all eventually wound up as gate guards, target tugs, and drones (I shudder..)

 

All my material indicates that the H's typical armament was: Four M-39 20mm cannon or six .50-cal. machine guns; eight 5-in. rockets, 2,000 lbs. of bombs, or nuclear weapon (LABS)

 

Clearly other aircraft in the same time period were already being equipped with AIM-9 Sidewinders and many export iterations (namely Korea, Pakistan, Australia, Germany) were equipped with IR guided missiles even earlier that the H's inception.

 

Q: So why on God's green earth was what many consider the last "hot-rod" and best pure dog-fighting platform delivered neutered sans A-2-A missiles?

 

Anyone?

[column5 63]

One reason could be that the AIM-9 was a Navy missile and at the time the F-86H was in development it would have been politically incorrect for the USAF to adopt it.

[+Zurawski 33]

One reason could be that the AIM-9 was a Navy missile and at the time the F-86H was in development it would have been politically incorrect for the USAF to adopt it.

 

Wow...

 

As politically stupid as that sounds... That makes perfect sense! And I have to admit... I never would have thought of that!

[column5 63]

Wow...

 

As politically stupid as that sounds... That makes perfect sense! And I have to admit... I never would have thought of that!

 

I could be wrong...it does raise an interesting question...when did the USAF first adopt the AIM-9 for one of its aircraft? I know the F-100 did eventually carry them, but from what date?

[+Dave 2,322]

I thought they did put them on eventually. The ANG's one were retrofitted.

[+Zurawski 33]

I thought they did put them on eventually. The ANG's one were retrofitted.

 

See this is where historical reference becomes hazy. Most historical reference stops after the Berlin crisis. So they did eventually get retrofitted?

 

(I'm sure most have figured out I'm fishing for reaction of installing them on my H... at least as an option)

[column5 63]

If the Sidewinder article on Wikipedia is correct, the Air Force adoped the AIM-9 (calling it the GAR-8) when it adopted the F-4. The USAFs first Phantoms were F-4Bs, but they kept the Sidewinder for the F-4C and did not switch to the AIM-4 until the F-4D. Looks like the USAF borrowed two F-4Bs from the Navy in January 1962, so they probably took delivery of AIM-9s a little after that.

[B52STRATO 215]

All this is right, the U.S.A.F launch his own short to middle range AA missile with Hughes and his IR or SARH AIM-4 Falcon

[+Dave 2,322]

Yeah but the F-86H left ANG service in 1972. So I think they had to of been retrofitted.

[ColStafford 2]

Development of a purely fighter-bomber version of the Sabre was initiated by North American Aviation on March 16, 1951 as the NA-187.

 

As compared to the F-86F, the F-86H had a shorter takeoff run, a better rate of climb, a higher ceiling, a larger combat radius, and better air to ground gunnery characteristics. All of these features made the F-86H a better fighter bomber than the F-86F. The increased power of the J73 engine did provide better acceleration and higher cruising speed, but aerodynamic limitations kept the improvement in maximum speed from being anything other than marginal, except at altitudes above 35,000 feet. However, the F-86H's higher wing loading made it less maneuverable than the F-86F, especially at high altitudes.

Edited December 2, 2011 by ColStafford

[+Zurawski 33]

Development of a purely fighter-bomber version of the Sabre was initiated by North American Aviation on March 16, 1951 as the NA-187.

 

As compared to the F-86F, the F-86H had a shorter takeoff run, a better rate of climb, a higher ceiling, a larger combat radius, and better air to ground gunnery characteristics. All of these features made the F-86H a better fighter bomber than the F-86F. The increased power of the J73 engine did provide better acceleration and higher cruising speed, but aerodynamic limitations kept the improvement in maximum speed from being anything other than marginal, except at altitudes above 35,000 feet. However, the F-86H's higher wing loading made it less maneuverable than the F-86F, especially at high altitudes.

 

I "believe" the early H's used the standard slated wing and were later retrofitted with the 6-3 wing to improve this?

[+Dave 2,322]

Development of a purely fighter-bomber version of the Sabre was initiated by North American Aviation on March 16, 1951 as the NA-187.

 

As compared to the F-86F, the F-86H had a shorter takeoff run, a better rate of climb, a higher ceiling, a larger combat radius, and better air to ground gunnery characteristics. All of these features made the F-86H a better fighter bomber than the F-86F. The increased power of the J73 engine did provide better acceleration and higher cruising speed, but aerodynamic limitations kept the improvement in maximum speed from being anything other than marginal, except at altitudes above 35,000 feet. However, the F-86H's higher wing loading made it less maneuverable than the F-86F, especially at high altitudes.

 

If you continue down from where you got this.

 

The 15th F-86H-1-NH was fitted with the "6-3" wing of the later F-86F, with extended wing tips and wing fences. Wing span was increased from 37.12 feet to 39.1 feet and wing area rose to 313.4 square feet.

 

In the meantime, on June 11, 1953 the USAF approved an additional contract (NA-203) for 300 F-86H-10-NHs. These differed from earlier F-86Hs primarily in having different electronic equipment and in having the J73-GE-3E engine. The first aircraft was delivered in January of 1955, and the last aircraft on the order was delivered in April of 1956. The last ten H-10s used the so-called "F-40" wing, with extended wingtips and slats on the extended leading edge, which improved low-speed handling. Eventually, all of the remaining Hs in the USAF and ANG inventories were retrofitted with the "F-40" wing.

 

 

 

 

http://www.joebaughe...ers/p86_16.html

[ColStafford 2]

Nope.

 

 

 

 

 

The 15th F-86H-1-NH was fitted with the "6-3" wing of the later F-86F, with extended wing tips and wing fences. Wing span was increased from 37.12 feet to 39.1 feet and wing area rose to 313.4 square feet.

 

The F-86H-5-NH, which appeared in January of 1955, introduced an armament of four 20-mm M-39 cannon. The M-39 was formerly known as the T-160, which was first tested in Korea. These guns weighed 286 pounds more than previous Sabre gun installations, but packed a lot more punch. Ammunition supply was limited to only 600 rounds, which was only about six seconds of firing time. The last of 60 F-86H-5-NH was delivered in February of 1955.

 

In the meantime, on June 11, 1953 the USAF approved an additional contract (NA-203) for 300 F-86H-10-NHs. These differed from earlier F-86Hs primarily in having different electronic equipment and in having the J73-GE-3E engine. The first aircraft was delivered in January of 1955, and the last aircraft on the order was delivered in April of 1956. The last ten H-10s used the so-called "F-40" wing, with extended wingtips and slats on the extended leading edge, which improved low-speed handling. Eventually, all of the remaining Hs in the USAF and ANG inventories were retrofitted with the "F-40" wing. Since the airframe of the F-86H limited it to subsonic speed in level flight no matter how great the power, the production run of the F-86H was relatively short. 473 were built, all but the first two at North American's Columbus, Ohio factory. The first production F-86H was delivered to the 312th Fighter Bomber Wing at Clovis AFB in New Mexico in the fall of 1954

 

 

[+Dave 2,322]

You went there too ColStafford. lol I was showing Zur the same thing.

[ColStafford 2]

LOL

 

 

 

Long and short the F-86F was the A2A choice.

[+Zurawski 33]

Dave & ColStafford

 

Thank-you for your informative educations. LOL!

 

It's clear as with many of the air frames developed in this era, government began wanting birds that were dual-purpose, as such the H was developed as a fighter-bomber... and as we've learned with many early multi-roll aircraft... this concession usually resulted in a bird that could do both but excelled at neither.

 

That said... there obviously is merit in the H's dog-fighting prowess or they would not have been used as Top Gun aggressors to simulate 15s and 17s...

 

I'm really digging this discussion!

[+Zurawski 33]

Hell...

 

Might as well give ya'll something to look at while we discuss this mother!

 

Still trying to get affirmation on whether or not this thing ever mounted rails and carried Winders...

 

 

 

[+Crusader 2,101]

SJDFH.7z

[+Crusader 2,101]

Launcher info from D model

SidewinderD.7z

[+Zurawski 33]

Thanks Crusader!

 

I'm actually working out that Wartech book as well as another authored by Duncan Curtis

 

I'm finding that there is an over abundance of info pertaining to the A through F Sabres...

 

Info on the H literally peters out with not so much as a whimper.

 

I beginning to believe the H is the red-head stepchild in the Sabre family...

[+hgbn 91]

Hey Zur. You might want to look closer at the D/K/L for some airframe stuff. Read in a D/K/L book that the H was essential an K airframe without the radar

[ColStafford 2]

Thanks Crusader!

 

I'm actually working out that Wartech book as well as another authored by Duncan Curtis

 

I'm finding that there is an over abundance of info pertaining to the A through F Sabres...

 

Info on the H literally peters out with not so much as a whimper.

 

I beginning to believe the H is the red-head stepchild in the Sabre family...

 

 

YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!

North American was also world fameous in lobby efforts in the U.S. government. Another prime example "Project Apollo!"

 

Wiring and hardpoints where not included in the F-86H. They only appeared in the naval FJ-3 and FJ-4.

[ColStafford 2]

Retrofit came about in the 1960s with ANG service.

[+Zurawski 33]

Retrofit came about in the 1960s with ANG service.

 

<Zur wrings his hands manically>

 

That's good enough for me! Actually I planned to slip the rails and the winders into the build regardless... just not make them part of the default loadout.

 

At least with some sort of affirmation, I feel just a wee less guilty.

 

Thank-you sir!

[Wrench 9,876]

loadouts can be "turned on" via a year activation switch in the loadout inis in SF2 nowadays

 

example:

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Tank_f86

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=Tank_f86

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

 

[AirToAir_62]

StartDefaultDate=1962

DefaultFor=CAP,SWEEP,INTERCEPT

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Tank_f86

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=Tank_f86

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=AIM-9B

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

Loadout[06].WeaponType=AIM-9B

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Edited December 4, 2011 by Wrench