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F-4PhantomII

Avoiding SAM's in WOV????

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Thats about it there II. Low, frying chickens in the barnyard low. Since SAMS are networking now its a lot more enjoyable.....isnt it????? Thats what WOV is all about. You can detune that a little if you so choose in the respective INI files.

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Guest capun

When you hear "SAM Launch", you should be able to hit R and lock on the SAM.

 

I then dive to the deck and jinx, once low keep changing directions and avoid the flak.

 

Worst is to fly high and steady, good way for the SAM to lock on you.

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When you hear "SAM Launch", you should be able to hit R and lock on the SAM.

 

I then dive to the deck and jinx, once low keep changing directions and avoid the flak.

 

Worst is to fly high and steady, good way for the SAM to lock on you.

I'll try all this, but damn is thee alot of SAM's in the Nam. And I do not like dumbing things down to make it easier by changing the files settings, feels like cheating.

Edited by F-4PhantomII

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I may be a loon, but I always wait for the Sam Inbound call before I start thinking about evasive action. And watch out when you get down too far into the weeds on your way out. I was belting out of Hanoi one mission at 250' dodging multiple Sam launches with the 105 in full burner, when I suddenly realized I was flying down the corridor between Hanoi and Haiphong. Not a particularly good idea. I had just got off the map and was about to pull up and turn south again when tracers came past the nose and voila: no engine. According to the log after I ejected, a ZSU tagged me, but I could swear I was in the middle of nowhere. So, don't feel safe anywhere. Turn and burn, twist and dodge, pray that the wingies make it out with you. Essentially, the way it really was. I doubt it's modelled into the sim, but I do know from research that the Vietnamese used to issue small arms to the collective farms and call them part of the People's Air Defence. When the Ox bells rang, they came out shooting at any Air Pirate overhead. Then again, I think the sim is dangerous enough without them. Maybe that ZSU was in a rest area on the Hanoi-Haiphong highway, taking a coffee break when I flew over them.

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I may be a loon, but I always wait for the Sam Inbound call before I start thinking about evasive action. And watch out when you get down too far into the weeds on your way out. I was belting out of Hanoi one mission at 250' dodging multiple Sam launches with the 105 in full burner, when I suddenly realized I was flying down the corridor between Hanoi and Haiphong. Not a particularly good idea. I had just got off the map and was about to pull up and turn south again when tracers came past the nose and voila: no engine. According to the log after I ejected, a ZSU tagged me, but I could swear I was in the middle of nowhere. So, don't feel safe anywhere. Turn and burn, twist and dodge, pray that the wingies make it out with you. Essentially, the way it really was. I doubt it's modelled into the sim, but I do know from research that the Vietnamese used to issue small arms to the collective farms and call them part of the People's Air Defence. When the Ox bells rang, they came out shooting at any Air Pirate overhead. Then again, I think the sim is dangerous enough without them. Maybe that ZSU was in a rest area on the Hanoi-Haiphong highway, taking a coffee break when I flew over them.

 

Heck,

The boys and girls in the black PJ's. Your right on. Instead of giving em books and sending em off to school their mommas gave em rifles. Nothing like getting holed by a kid in the rice paddy to really make a bad day worse. But, thats the way it was.

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Goes back to the thinking of the time. You had to fly high to avoid the over 10000 pieces of AAA the NVA had. But then the SAM's would take pot shots at you. You fly too low then you end up looking like a Swiss cheese block. So what do you do? Not sure what the lesser of two evils is but I take my chances with the SAM's as the ground fire is too intense and to dodge.

 

Besides I dont get excited until there is at least 6 SAM's in the air. Call me crazy......

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Heck,

The boys and girls in the black PJ's. Your right on. Instead of giving em books and sending em off to school their mommas gave em rifles. Nothing like getting holed by a kid in the rice paddy to really make a bad day worse. But, thats the way it was.

 

I knew it! I love this sim, and all the great stuff TJ and company modelled into it! Of all the sims I've owned (read tons), I love this sim most of all. And not just for all the mods, but basically because what happens to me in the sim just feels right if you know what I mean. I read Gene Basel's "Pack Six" while doing some research for a project and this sim leaves me with the same feeling I got reading Gene's book, although I don't down as many scotches as Gene used to, because I'm not really going to die. Still, it captures the essense of the experience better than anything else I've owned.

 

Oh, and a short ps to F4 Phantom II, the starter of this thread. You haven't really gone downtown until you've done it in a Scooter. So, cast off thy Sparrows, and Sidewinders, and thy fancy radar, and mount a simple steed armed only with your RWR and Mark 1 eyeball, but if you do doubt your courage.....

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I knew it! I love this sim, and all the great stuff TJ and company modelled into it! Of all the sims I've owned (read tons), I love this sim most of all. And not just for all the mods, but basically because what happens to me in the sim just feels right if you know what I mean. I read Gene Basel's "Pack Six" while doing some research for a project and this sim leaves me with the same feeling I got reading Gene's book, although I don't down as many scotches as Gene used to, because I'm not really going to die. Still, it captures the essense of the experience better than anything else I've owned.

 

Oh, and a short ps to F4 Phantom II, the starter of this thread. You haven't really gone downtown until you've done it in a Scooter. So, cast off thy Sparrows, and Sidewinders, and thy fancy radar, and mount a simple steed armed only with your RWR and Mark 1 eyeball, but if you do doubt your courage.....

 

"Scooter"?

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I am new to this series, but I just have to say, that I second many of the things being said in this thread. I can't believe I spent all that time flying prop sims <slaps forehead>. :haha:

 

And being new, I get to "fall" into things without knowing what I am doing. Like tonight when I came to the realization that instant action was not just instant, but continuous until you die or give up. :ohmy:

 

Up till then, I was happy just flying a few single missions, but the instant action was totally furious. My squad was getting ripped apart. Sams were launching every few seconds. And who is that guy that always notices the SAM launches. I quickly figured out that the deck was the only safe place.

 

From necessity I went with boresight, and got a few that way. A few with guns, wasted a few sidewinders and then, I kept hearing the guys on comm reportinf the way-point they were flying through. So, I decided to do the same. :rofl: Funny thing, I could only locate one waypoint, smack in the middle of all those same sites. :rofl:

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That's the way it really was boys and girls.

Going over Bagdad in Desert Storm was worse only to going to Hanoi in '67 to '73.

The most heavily air defended area in the world at the time was North Vietnam.

HOWEVER, we had flares and chaff on board most combat aircraft. Lots of flares and lots of chaff.

If a SAM site was tracking you, you would get a slow warble sound from the ECM on your aircraft in your helmet earphones.

When the site went to high PRF to track ,the warble would increase in speed.

When you heard the quick warble you would punch out a flare or two and some chaff. The SAM,hopefully, would mistake it for you.

The best way to avoid SAM's was to look for them. If you could see them ,you could out manuever them.

The SA-2 Guideline SAM had to go 3-5 miles or over 5000 ft before the booster rocket was jettisoned.

The booster gave off the pinkest smoke you ever saw. Yes PINK.

You would watch for pink smoke and follow the telephone pole that was at the end of it.. If it wasn't coming your way, you would watch for another one that maybe was coming your way.

As for small arms fire down low, you are right. Every kid or adult was issued a rifle to shoot at the "YANKEE IMPERIALISTS"

 

So,Moral of story, keep your head on a swivel , and out of the cockpit.

Sorry to make this so wordy, but this was SAM Lesson number 1 back in the days.

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Ez

 

Would you be interested in writing something up for the Knowledge base about avoiding SAM's?

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I dont know if this is smart but when I find a SAM launched, I head towards it and do quick manuvers and they seem to always miss. Kinda crazy but it works for me...

 

 

 

And wouldnt it be a good idea to make stealth planes such as the F-117 Nighthawk so the SAMs are still there but its harder for them to lock onto you. I'd love to see some stealth's in this game.

Edited by Kalakushcov

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I just wait till I hear the SAM call and then do a padlock on to the offending site. If it is too far away or the smoke trails aren't coming my way, then I just turn on the ECM, pump out some Chaff and keep my head in the game about my mission. If they are coming to me, I start a shallow low speed turn away from the nose all the while pumping out chaff and as they get closer make the turn every so tighter and harder with an additional vertical movement.

 

The other thing to do is dedicate at least one of your sections to suppression of enemy air defenses. Two is even better. Give both aircraft some sort of Anti-radation Missile (like Shrike or Standard ARM) and a bunch of cluster bombs. That way they will sweep the bad guys out of the way and with ARMs they will kill those frigging radars that guide the SOB's. If your mission is CAP of some sort (whether it is MiGCAP or BARCAP). Then really pay attention to those Red Crown or other radio calls about SAMs being airborne. THen use the manuvering technequie I described above. I don't ever turn into the missile and go head to head. I have had my electronic bits scattered over the sky too many times that way. Rather I give it a chance to get into a tail chase and then move like I described above.

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Ez

 

Would you be interested in writing something up for the Knowledge base about avoiding SAM's?

 

 

 

USAFMTL

 

I would love to.

How do I go about doing it?

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I kept hearing the guys on comm reportinf the way-point they were flying through. So, I decided to do the same. :rofl: Funny thing, I could only locate one waypoint, smack in the middle of all those same sites. :rofl:

 

 

your hearing all the flights on comm's not just yours, Try a full out all settings on Heavy, Hard strike mission!!!!!!! Talk about chatter!!

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my version of WOV has SA-9s' all over on missions with later dates. They are completely heat seeking but only go for your tail. if you see one going for it than turn twards it and its as blind as a bat. As for flying low to avoid SA-2s', use your ground mapping radar to avoid clumps of AAA and when you have sam level set to heavy than always bring some and arm or two (unless the majority of sams are SA-9 in which case they are useless)

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I used this thread oat SimHQ to add at least some chaff to more planes as in stock models. On many pictures and documents during Linebacker I/ II I read and see chaff used alot. Most of the time by planes with only that mission but since the campaign engine is unable to copy that behaviour. Without this nearly 80 percent of an alpha strike package will get shot down with the AI unable to avoid SAMs and the waypoints set upon airfields and SAM sites.

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One thing i would like to add...

 

Keep your exposure to enemy defenses to the minimal time posible! Get in and out by the safest way even if you have to take a roundabout path.

 

For example, trying to take out targets in the Hanoi area will always (especially the Paul Doumer bridge) result in large numbers of SAMs fired at your planes. I always take a route to the northwest, swing east, then head south on the eastern side of Thud ridge as low and fast as i can. The egress route is to the nearest hills to the west after i get back to about 10-12000ft.

Edited by Lt. James Cater

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The SAMs are one of the best things about this sim. It make you appreciate just what a nightmare missions over the North were. :tomato2:

 

I remember Robin Olds being interviewed for the BBC tv series "Reaching for the skies" and in his words "When you find yourself being fired at by 32 of those things in 3 minutes as my flight and I were one time, you find yourself down on the deck which is no place to be over North Vietnam, even the school children are shooting at you!"

 

I take my hat off to those guys!

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The SAMs are one of the best things about this sim. It make you appreciate just what a nightmare missions over the North were. :tomato2:

 

I remember Robin Olds being interviewed for the BBC tv series "Reaching for the skies" and in his words "When you find yourself being fired at by 32 of those things in 3 minutes as my flight and I were one time, you find yourself down on the deck which is no place to be over North Vietnam, even the school children are shooting at you!"

 

I take my hat off to those guys!

 

A very good book is "When Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasimus. He was a Thud driver during the period of their worst losses and i recommend it to any interested in combat aviation.

 

I remember trying to hit an airfield during an early morning strike and since i took a more direct route, went faster and higher than the other flights, my flight came in rather early and we got all the attention from the defenses. I remember feeling sort of slick cause i dodged a SAM, only to have it blow away my wingman and make me realize that the one i dodged WASN'T the one that was coming for me.

 

We didn't make it to the target area until after everyone else came in, bombed, and were on the way out.

 

Needless to say, i missed the target.

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