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I just recently downloaded the wonderful Jaguar and A-4K with the new avionics that give a CCIP on the HUD. This makes mud-moving a helluva lot more fun that it used to be (although I still enjoy the TLAB (that looks about right)method. My question is - are there any other mods that have this awesome feature? Is the this feature available on WOV or WOE (I am just running SFP1). It seems to me like this is a major step forward for the game and the topic deserves some attention.

 

Thanks!!!

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There are other planes uploaded here and elsewhere that have the CCIP mod. You'll just have to look around for them. Some third-party planes are, no doubt, still in the process of being upgraded.

 

The CCIP feature is available on all of the SF-series games.

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There are other planes uploaded here and elsewhere that have the CCIP mod. You'll just have to look around for them. Some third-party planes are, no doubt, still in the process of being upgraded.

 

The CCIP feature is available on all of the SF-series games.

 

 

I guess my only further question is - why wasn't this part of the game from the start? It adds so much tot he experience that I don't quite know what to do with myself. What's next? DIANE for the A-6? LORAN for the F-4? Is there a time coming when (dare I hope the hope?) we'll be able to accurately bomb through overcast?

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I guess my only further question is - why wasn't this part of the game from the start? It adds so much tot he experience that I don't quite know what to do with myself. What's next? DIANE for the A-6? LORAN for the F-4? Is there a time coming when (dare I hope the hope?) we'll be able to accurately bomb through overcast?

 

 

 

I'm sure you know the answer, Brian.

 

 

 

None of the aircraft represented in the default SF planeset had CCIP in RL. In WoV, only the A-7 featured it, and it wasn't introduced until the D-model. TK has expressed interest about the DIANE system in the past, so, who can say?

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I'm sure you know the answer, Brian.

 

 

 

None of the aircraft represented in the default SF planeset had CCIP in RL. In WoV, only the A-7 featured it, and it wasn't introduced until the D-model. TK has expressed interest about the DIANE system in the past, so, who can say?

 

 

Point of order my good man, but its my understanding that the F-4Damd E models had a rudimentary CCIP calleedd WRCS (weapons release computer system). I'm not sure, but I know thgat after 1973 many F-4s were fitted with the AWG-10A fire control system which, among other things aided in the computation of impact point of unguided weapons. I also think that some later variants of the A-4 and certainly the A-7 (as well as many of the add-ons, as you have noted) would have this capability.

 

It would be just peachy keen to see a late model F-4E with TISEO.

 

"It is perfume from a dress

That makes me so digress?"

 

At any rate, I tried the A-7E and found it wanting a CCIP. Are there any mods that you know of that have this feature other thant he A-4K and Jaguar (both splended mods, by the way)

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It would be just peachy keen to see a late model F-4E with TISEO.

 

"It is perfume from a dress

That makes me so digress?"

 

At any rate, I tried the A-7E and found it wanting a CCIP. Are there any mods that you know of that have this feature other thant he A-4K and Jaguar (both splended mods, by the way)

 

 

 

TISEO was operated solely by the WSO, there was no display in the pilot's cockpit. There are a few A-7 'pits that have been edited to use CCIP. In fact, I believe I saw someone posting that mod, here at Combat Ace.

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TISEO was operated solely by the WSO, there was no display in the pilot's cockpit. There are a few A-7 'pits that have been edited to use CCIP. In fact, I believe I saw someone posting that mod, here at Combat Ace.

 

Coolsville - i've gotten the A-7 D and E to work, now is it possible to start fooling around with this mod and update teh aavionics in, say, my IDF F-4E (whihc already rocks)? I did not know that the TISEO was a WSO/RIO thing only. Exactly how did that work anyway?

 

On the topic of weapons delivery, I seem to recall that there were some modified F-105s that could bomb through overcast - "Ryan's Raiders" I think they were called (the unit, that is). Does anybody know how that update worked? Was it a modification of the exiting radar, or a new weapons control system? Any chance at all that we could see something like that in the game (by integrating targeting and autopilot or something maybe?). For that matter, B-66s could do it.

 

Anyway - cheers to the genius who modded this CCIP thing - the game is now complete. Well, it will be once we can toss nukes with an F-101, but once again, I digress....

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The CCIP would be a good thing if it were accurate enough but unfortunately it isn't. In fact, you can achieve similiar accuracy with or without CCIP if trained enough. TK wrote something about innate CCIP's inaccuracy but it shouldn't mean I must still drop series of iron bombs to hit one target as before! :unsure:

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Coolsville - i've gotten the A-7 D and E to work, now is it possible to start fooling around with this mod and update teh aavionics in, say, my IDF F-4E (whihc already rocks)? I did not know that the TISEO was a WSO/RIO thing only. Exactly how did that work anyway?

 

On the topic of weapons delivery, I seem to recall that there were some modified F-105s that could bomb through overcast - "Ryan's Raiders" I think they were called (the unit, that is). Does anybody know how that update worked? Was it a modification of the exiting radar, or a new weapons control system? Any chance at all that we could see something like that in the game (by integrating targeting and autopilot or something maybe?). For that matter, B-66s could do it.

 

Anyway - cheers to the genius who modded this CCIP thing - the game is now complete. Well, it will be once we can toss nukes with an F-101, but once again, I digress....

 

 

 

The '105s were updated with a LORAN-A based system, but the data I dug up points to that system not being used at all in SEA. In fact, it states that all Thuds so-equipped where sent stateside to ANG units!

 

 

 

The TISEO set was contolled by the WSO, as I mentioned before. I remember reading somewhere that Sony manufactured the display heads for it, and even went as far as mentioning that in their domestic (Japanese) ads, which caused quite a stir at the time. Also, one forum member (Crab02) was creating a TISEO-equipped F-4E until he discovered that it was a back-seat only system.

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The '105s were updated with a LORAN-A based system, but the data I dug up points to that system not being used at all in SEA. In fact, it states that all Thuds so-equipped where sent stateside to ANG units!

 

Maybe because the Thud was being withdrawn from front-line units by the time LORAN was ready to be fitted, no doubt the aircraft had been scheduled to receive it some years previously, bugdets set aside etc... so they had to go ahead and fit it :rolleyes::smile:

 

The TISEO set was contolled by the WSO, as I mentioned before. I remember reading somewhere that Sony manufactured the display heads for it, and even went as far as mentioning that in their domestic (Japanese) ads, which caused quite a stir at the time. Also, one forum member (Crab02) was creating a TISEO-equipped F-4E until he discovered that it was a back-seat only system.

 

That seems a pity since you can already operate a variety of WSO-controlled systems form the front seat of the Phantom. LGB/Maverick for example. Not forgetting many of the very popular 2 seater add-on aircraft that feature them too.

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Maybe because the Thud was being withdrawn from front-line units by the time LORAN was ready to be fitted, no doubt the aircraft had been scheduled to receive it some years previously, bugdets set aside etc... so they had to go ahead and fit it :rolleyes::smile:

 

That seems a pity since you can already operate a variety of WSO-controlled systems form the front seat of the Phantom. LGB/Maverick for example. Not forgetting many of the very popular 2 seater add-on aircraft that feature them too.

 

I have appreciated all the kind responses to my queries, and I dont want to seem ungrateful, but I am still curious about adding the CCIP mod to existing aircraft. Is It possible, even if it would be mean engineering a slightly anachronistic aircraft?

 

Also, I have been digging for a long time to figure out exactly what F-4s had CCIP capability. As I said, I know some E and Ds had it, and I would assume that the Navy would be keen to have such a system, but I have never been able to verify whether or not the fire control upgrades that the J, and S models underwent included such equipment.

 

Furthermore - does anybody know if any American A-4 models had this capability? If not what the hell was in the camel hump (sadly its even harder to find good info on the A-4 since there is no Airtime volume that covers it and the Squadron/Signal book on it went out of print ages ago).

 

While we're at it - how cool would it be to have a realistic mod of the M-1 carried by the F-106 or some of the early intercept systems on the F-94 or F3D. In the case of the F-106 this would require 2 joysticks for maximum accuracy!

 

SAGE would be way beyond what the game's engine could handle - but one can always dream.

 

At any rate, it seems to me that fire control is one of the key issues that never gets dealt with when one is talking military aviation history. Everybody is all hot and bothered to talk about the aerodynamic qualities of these aircraft, but the actual delivery of weapons the a real elephant in the room. Afterall, aren't wars won by dropping explosives on people's heads accurately?

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I have appreciated all the kind responses to my queries, and I dont want to seem ungrateful, but I am still curious about adding the CCIP mod to existing aircraft. Is It possible, even if it would be mean engineering a slightly anachronistic aircraft?

 

Also, I have been digging for a long time to figure out exactly what F-4s had CCIP capability. As I said, I know some E and Ds had it, and I would assume that the Navy would be keen to have such a system, but I have never been able to verify whether or not the fire control upgrades that the J, and S models underwent included such equipment.

 

Furthermore - does anybody know if any American A-4 models had this capability? If not what the hell was in the camel hump (sadly its even harder to find good info on the A-4 since there is no Airtime volume that covers it and the Squadron/Signal book on it went out of print ages ago).

 

While we're at it - how cool would it be to have a realistic mod of the M-1 carried by the F-106 or some of the early intercept systems on the F-94 or F3D. In the case of the F-106 this would require 2 joysticks for maximum accuracy!

 

SAGE would be way beyond what the game's engine could handle - but one can always dream.

 

At any rate, it seems to me that fire control is one of the key issues that never gets dealt with when one is talking military aviation history. Everybody is all hot and bothered to talk about the aerodynamic qualities of these aircraft, but the actual delivery of weapons the a real elephant in the room. Afterall, aren't wars won by dropping explosives on people's heads accurately?

 

 

Perhaps my questions should be directed elsewhere? Does anybody knoe of a good place to look for the answers I am seeking about fire control on aircraft from the Vietname era? The Airtime books are okay, but they don't really get intot he details, and thery don't treat teh A-7 or A-4 at all. Its annoying that we tend to overlook the planes that really put the ordinance on thr ground. I doubt that many Vietnam era grunts care much about what teh F-4 did to the NVA - but would be glad to talk about how the A-4, A-1 and A-7 got them out of some messy scrapes. Which raises a whole other point, the CAS mission in SFP1 is nonexistent - hopefully they fixed this in WOV?

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I just started reading Ed Rasimus second book 'Palace Cobra', dealing with his second Tour in a F-4E over North Vietnam in 72. He describes the precision of the system to be very high, much higher than traditional dive bombing. From his description I take that the WSO designated the target and the bombs would fall pretty close as long as the wings were level.

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I just started reading Ed Rasimus second book 'Palace Cobra', dealing with his second Tour in a F-4E over North Vietnam in 72. He describes the precision of the system to be very high, much higher than traditional dive bombing. From his description I take that the WSO designated the target and the bombs would fall pretty close as long as the wings were level.

 

 

Thanks for the info! Maybe I need to look more into the anecdotal information and stop sifting through the purely technical stuff?

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I just started reading Ed Rasimus second book 'Palace Cobra', dealing with his second Tour in a F-4E over North Vietnam in 72. He describes the precision of the system to be very high, much higher than traditional dive bombing. From his description I take that the WSO designated the target and the bombs would fall pretty close as long as the wings were level.

 

 

Perhaps that was a CCRP sistem. Like the A6, she have CCRP but only have a manual sight for dive bombing.

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I Flew my A-6F last night with the CCIP mod and what a big improvement over using the stationary HUD PIPPER on targets, now I'm dropping accurately and only once inbound/outbound on a target....great mod.

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With CCIP things get a lot better as far as getting the bombs on target. The only bad thing is that you'll have to practice a bit with normal sites to keep your skills up in case you decide to switch aircraft.

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