About this girl winning the CMH?

[snapple2993 0]

I haven't really been following the war lately (working), but I picked up that the newly rescued female POW (sorry dont know her name), may become a recipient of the CMH.

 

Info please. :D

[+Fates 63]

Her name is Jessica Lynch

[SDirickson 0]

The Medal of Honor? Hmm... I hope you don't take it the wrong way when I say this, but until I hear a whole lot more about her story, I don't think she merits the Medal of Honor. Don't take that as a slight on her character or bravery, but that is one Medal that should be awarded rarely and to those who truly perform "above and beyond the call of duty."

[Dutchy 0]

The people that rescued her they award a medal.

And my meaning about the girl. She looks good. A pretty lady.

Sorry, that was to much mantalk.

 

Greetings

Dutch

[Dutchy 0]

One man has to get a medal. I read on CNN website. That Iraqi man helped the marines to tell them where the held Jessica Lynch. His wife and daughter were in the hospital. He saw Jessica and a colonel that slapped her twice. More about this, on CNN website.

Hero of the day is a Iraqi man with a wife and daughter.

 

Greetings

Dutchy

[KFG_Keller 0]

it depends on how much they tortured her, i mean, if they found 11 bodies, and she was the only one left alive, doesnt hat merit soemthing? true it would be a boobie prize of sorts, but still, the fact that she survived and was probably tortured, and yet was able to still be alive, and no i'm not slandering anyone who has been a pow before with this, just that she is the first american woman pow i have heard of in a very long time, if ever.

[SDirickson 0]

She definately merits a Purple Heart. But, I think the fact of the matter is, they shouldn't have been taken prisoner anyway. The convoy made a wrong turn and then they were not able to defend themselves sufficiently to keep from being captured.

 

Until I hear that her individual bravery during the time saved both her life and the lives of her fellow comrades (At least temporarily) I think she shouldn't recieve anything different than any of the other men and women taken prisoner. I am not trying to be callous, because she is definately a hero for surviving such a trial, but the Medal of Honor is our highest award, period. Unless the deed for which it is given leaves no doubt in the minds of the public that it was an act of the utmost heroism, selflessness and courage, then it sould not be awarded. Doing so only cheapens the sacrifices other men and women have made.

[Sparkchaser2010 24]

The Facts....

 

Most CMH recipients sacrificed their lives or put their life in danger to save others. She did not. The convoy she was with "messed up" and they paid the ultimate price. Purple Heart is a definate! and maybe even a lesser medal but not the CMH.

[Scout_51 0]

Unless the deed for which it is given leaves no doubt in the minds of the public that it was an act of the utmost heroism, selflessness and courage, then it sould not be awarded. Doing so only cheapens the sacrifices other men and women have made

 

well from what been said she put up a good fight,definetly good for a non grunt type..lets see broken legs(maybe tortured?)broken arm,gunshot,stabbed..Id say she pissed off a lot of iraqi 'soldiers'......if not CMH ok then least silver star,or bronze with V,whatever I think the young soldier did good...

[savagkc 1]

i have to correct some things here.

 

1st - she was not shot nor stabbed.

 

2nd - I dont think these were hardened combat types but were more like supply/transportation soldiers. Trust me, there is a big difference.

 

3rd - Since we dont know the conditions (how many enemy solders there were, what type of weapons they had, etc), it is impossible to tell if capture could have been avoided but i doubt if they just surrendered without a fight.

 

4th - there are all types of courage. Seeing your countrymen killed, possibly being threatened with death yourself or being faithful to your countrymen/country while someone is breaking your bones and beating you senseless then leaving you in pain (until next time) has a certain bravery attached. I dont know to many men (including me) that could do that much less a 19 year old girl.

 

but until all the facts are in, i will with hold any personal judgement .

 

savagkc

[Seawolf 0]

Keep in mind that to be awarded the CMH you have to be recommended for it by commanding officers. Anytime a CMH is being recommended there is an investigation to see if the person actually deserves to get the CMH. We don't know the whole story yet, but perhaps she fought off Iraqi troops during the ambush, or gathered some kind of intel while being a POW, etc. I can tell you having been through SERE training myself and knowing what its like to be a POW (although in training, but very realalistic). It is hell on you mentally and physically. I couldn't imagine the pain she must have been in with the injuries she had and especially being a female not knowing whether you were going to be raped or sexually assaulted in some way. From what I have seen this girl is tiny physically and the fact that she was still alive when rescued is amazing in itself. She may not have been in a "Combat" unit, but she sure as hell performed as though she was and for that she is a Hero IMO. When your a POW your only goal is to stay alive by any means possible while still providing resistance to your captors, she did that.

Does she deserve the CMH? I don't know, it depends on what the investigation of the events turns up and if it turns out she fought of the attack as well as surviving being a beat up POW then YES give her the CMH. My only fear is that the other male troops in that unit gave thier lives trying to protect those females in that unit, which is something they teach in SERE school and a reason commanders hesitate about women in combat. Men naturally take on a protective stance when women are involved, and I'm willing to guess that she is alive today because those guys tried to protect her in some way. I'm not against women in the military, but I'm just being realistic.

[Guest Ranger332]

The people that rescued her they award a medal."

the ppl that rescued her are SOF (Special Operations Forces)

 

savagkc

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:11 pm

 

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"i have to correct some things here.

 

1st - she was not shot nor stabbed.

 

2nd - I dont think these were hardened combat types but were more like supply/transportation soldiers. Trust me, there is a big difference.

 

3rd - Since we dont know the conditions (how many enemy solders there were, what type of weapons they had, etc), it is impossible to tell if capture could have been avoided but i doubt if they just surrendered without a fight.

 

4th - there are all types of courage. Seeing your countrymen killed, possibly being threatened with death yourself or being faithful to your countrymen/country while someone is breaking your bones and beating you senseless then leaving you in pain (until next time) has a certain bravery attached. I dont know to many men (including me) that could do that much less a 19 year old girl.

 

but until all the facts are in, i will with hold any personal judgement . "

 

 

"SDirickson

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:28 pm "

 

she was shot the broken bones were from rounds.

 

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All member of the US ARMY hold a secondery MOS as Grunt weather they know it or not they get it from the basic training they all recive. that why in time of need any one can be pulled to be a grunt (battle of the baston)

 

"She definately merits a Purple Heart. But, I think the fact of the matter is, they shouldn't have been taken prisoner anyway. The convoy made a wrong turn and then they were not able to defend themselves sufficiently to keep from being captured. "

 

Another thing the servivior of the ambush asked "WERE THIS WRONG TURN CRAP CAME FROM THEY" "WERE WHERE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT THAT TIME" it was a common tactic for them to wait till the "hard targets" passed the hit the "softer" trucks.

 

"SERE school and a reason commanders hesitate about women in combat. Men naturally take on a protective stance when women are involved, and I'm willing to guess that she is alive today because those guys tried to protect her in some way. I'm not against women in the military, but I'm just being realistic. "

 

VERY Good point the IDF stopped women in combat units for that very reason they could accept a soldier being left behind but the thought of what would happen to a women left to the emeny caused entire platoons to go fight and get hurt bad just to get 1 female.

 

Lets face it it will be a long time till we get all the facts.

example the Samolia raide if durrant hadent failed to follow orders and stayed in orbit he never would have been shot down. causing the meny KIA trying to get him back but to meny uninformed he was a hero. both the book and the movie were wrong as to what happened there. that a prim example of how books and history can be wrong. Rember that history almost always is written by the victor.

 

She will most likly get a Silver star with V device (Valor) POW medal, Purple Haert,two campaigne ribbons,the national defense ribbon.

thats six at the lest she will qualitify for. Pluse one hell of a handshake and a SALUTE from me.

[+pcpilot 181]

First, let me say I am glad she and the rest of the prisoners are safe at home now. As for a medal, I would be surprised to see her get a Silver Star though. That is one of our very highest awards. Of course it depends on the circumstances of her action and subsequent capture. If she did something meritoriuos like saving another life at the risk of her own or offered valourious succer/leadership to the other prisoners, maybe then. I hope they dont just hand them out in this ages' rush for heroes and wind up cheapening the medals worth. And please dont get me wrong. I understand that her ordeal as a prisoner wasnt easy. I often thought how I would feel in the prisoners' place. It would have been very frightening and difficult. But she isnt the first prisoner ever taken. How many prisoners in WW2 or Vietnam won Silver Stars or CMH's except they did something to merit it. Like most posts above, I agree, we should wait and see what story unfolds.

 

Ranger's comment above about women in combat got me to thinking. I dont mean to hjack the thread but a personal feeling if I may...

 

I do not agree with women in combat for several reasons: First, I do not beleive that they are psychologically suited to it. Now before you go spastic hear me out. Women are trained, and it is their nature, to be nuturers, not destroyers. They also tend to be very emotional. Do NOT beleive those few so called "experts" who say men and women are the same psychologically. The stress of combat can break the strongest men, how much more quickly would a woman break? The few months or even years of military training is not likely to change ingrained emotionalism. I would be very nervous of the presence of a woman next to me in combat, considering her to be an unknown quantity for dependability. Of all the women in my Natl Guard unit, there was only one who I felt was capable of withstanding the stress of combat and motivated enough to succeed in action if the need arose, she was a former DI. I consider her to be an exception to the rule, there almost always is one... :0)

 

Second, They do not have the strength to perform on the battlefield under battlefield conditions. They could NOT march under full pack/kit load 20-30 miles a day indefinately. How many of you can see a woman carrying a SAW while running from hole to tree to rock during combat? The Army to the best of my knowledge actually lowered the physical tests requirements to keep women from being discouraged, or whatever, from being constantly behind men. In my last year in the Guard, they actually RAISED the standards somewhat realizing that they had lowered them too much. It was a joke among the men that the PT test was so easy. The old timers who had been in 20 or more years knew what the test used to be in terms of requirements. I am slow as the seven year itch and I could run rings around almost any woman there. When the whole company ran together which was fairly rare, the men would grab the guidon and take turns running around the entire company just to have a little challenge. Men have come out of the unisex Army bootcamp feeling disappointed at the lack of physical challenge. I've heard it with my own ears and read about it with my own eyes.

 

Lastly, I say this too...I was in the military from 1075-84, then got out for 12 years. Then I rejoined the local Natl Guard unit in '96 for the extra money every month. (I finished with 14 years in) It was a UNIQUE experiance coming back into a military that had allowed women and gays into it and had become very politicised and politically correct. Nearly every man I talked to or tried to talk to about this was afraid to talk and speak their mind. Probably thought I was some investigator or something. The differance between the time I was in back in '84 and the time when I went back in in '96 was nothing less than astounding, and more than a little discouraging.

 

Now having sounded like some conservative old fart who is unwilling to change, let me add this...I have thought much on these things since getting out back in 2000. As a Christian, I can not agree with the practice of homosexuality. However, also as a Chritian, I realize how often I have erred and tend to look at Homosexuals as erring humans like myself. I do not hate them nor do I refuse to associate with them. I realize that as members of our society, they have something to contribute, perhaps even in the military. My quandry being in the line that may be crossed affecting morale. It is not clear to me what to do or where to draw it. The military has a mission to protect this country, and all else, politcs espesially, should take a back seat to that. So I leave this issue to men wiser than me.

As for women, They have a very valid role to play in the military even if it doesnt entail combat. Never will I think women are any stupider or unintelligent than myself. The ONLY thing that unsuits them for combat is their physical strength and emotinal makeup. I have no doubt that our quickly becoming unisex society will breed even the emotionalism from women in time. Then they will become killers like men. Then who will nuture us? Think about it, what has happened to familys without fulltime moms? And what will happen to society without the gentleness only women can impart? Who will we come home to after the war if we have all fought in it?

[snapple2993 0]

I agree whole heartedly PC, my sister was training for intel out at Ft. Chauchuca* (as a marine), and some asshole 2nd Lt. was trying to make these intel peeps into front line grunts, by running up and down the mountains around the base with a full load, Stef (my sis) blew out her knee becuase of this. So now she gets a check from the gov. every month for the rest of her life, plus the G.I. bill, and only did a year and a half in the crotch.

 

As for the gays, some of those bull dykes are far tougher than any man I know, think its becuase they really really want to be a man more than anything, but they are still women and lack the physical strength to do it right. As for the gay men, I have never seen any one person more tenacious then a gay man that feels threatened. And gays work with other gays very well, we have a tittie bar (Bare Assettes) next to a gay bar (the cold keg) which is also next to the redneck bar (the county line), and I witnessed a fight between 3 drunk rednecks and 3 drunk fags as I was delivering pizza to the titty bar, and the fags kicked ass bad.

 

Just another pointless story from me. As for Ms. Lynch, I guess she gets a purple heart, maybe a bronze star.

[Guest Ranger332]

one thing I dont agree that women arnt hunters , women has been shown to kill faster then Men the maternal instent they have faster reflexes they make better pilots as the wider hips allow them to sit longer and they can take more pain (try child berthing). but as to allowing them into combat,I worldent be to good as mentioned as to why the IDF stopped using them.

And finaly would you want you mother sister or wife to be on a front line?. I have meet a few that I would reather have beside me in combat but one was a crewchief/doorgunned on a huey. We dated ,and still talk after 18 years, shes in korea now,but served in samola as a doorgunner.

 

I got into a aurgment with a captian in West Point about the treatment of some of the cadets there(female) (I tought advanced Recon,and Ambush Tactice there at nbateral bridge 92 to the classe of 94.) granted I dont want women in combat but I do want the person next to me to be reliable.

If they can hit there target and not run till told to thats all I ask.

[Dutchy 0]

No, N and more No. She don't deserve any medal. They take the wrong road and she was not shotted or cut with a knife. And from her they wanna make a movie?? I say it once, but I say it again. The Iraqi fellow deserves a medal. With his information is she rescued. Today I read more about this lady and the treu story about her capture.

 

Salute

Dutchy

(I still support the troops in Afgan and Iraq)

[Scout_51 0]

No, N and more No. She don't deserve any medal. They take the wrong road and she was not shotted or cut with a knife. And from her they wanna make a movie?? I say it once, but I say it again. The Iraqi fellow deserves a medal. With his information is she rescued. Today I read more about this lady and the treu story about her capture.

 

this is NOT intended to be a flame,so please do NOT think it is..the situation with PVT Lynch and her mates in the 507th is one of those If you were not there or in situations that could get you hurt then all you can do is make a guess...Im taking it that you are going by what the bbc is spouting?suppose that she was not hurt,suppose it WAS a rpg that took out her humvee,that in and by itself is pretty nasty stuff as anyone who been there,done that can tell you..that ANY of them made it outta the ambush is surprizing in itself..now as to the iraqui fellow...he deserves a medal? for capturing a young soldier that had just seen friends killed,had a rpg smack into her vehicle,had that vehicle smash into a truck and more likely saw her mates MURDERED? is that what is being said?...

[+pcpilot 181]

Scout, I think Dutchy is referring to the Iraqi fellow that informed the Allies where Jessica was being held. I think he also assisted with her rescue by leading the rescuers to her, though I may be wrong.

 

I do wish that the military and media would be more forthcoming with info surrounding this episode. I have heard from several returning vets that she was repeatedly raped and her broken bones were the result of her resistance to being raped. If this is true, the criminals who did this need to face justice. Then again, this may just be rumours the soldiers were told too.