Hawk Missile battery?

[JediMaster]

Yes, he looked at me and said, "Doc," he said, "Some time, when the crew is up against it, and the breaks are beating the boys, tell 'em to get out there and give it all they've got. And win just one for the Zipper. I don't know where I'll be then Doc, he said. But I won't smell too good, that's for sure."

[Hawk MMS]

Hawk batteries were spread out. From the BCP to each radar you tried to maximize the distance and use up all of the data cable length you had (350+ feet). from the HIPIR to the launcher box would be another cable length (350+). Then it went from the launcher box to the launchers.

 

This is not from hawk but it shows what the bed loaded BCP looks like (same box just different antannaes). I think the one below is related to patriot systems.

 

[Nicholas Bell]

I'm still working on this - mostly catching up to where Wrench is in understanding how to get them on the map. I've managed to add them as generic SAMRadar, SAMLauncher, etc to existing Target Areas, but have been unable to reproduce what was done on the OTC Cuba map where the various SAMs are defined by type and setup in their own target area. Without this of course using the generic objects result the weapon types being decided by the program. I've added the specific pieces of HAWK equipment to the GERMANYCE_TYPES.ini file as was done in the OTC map, but must be missing another part or doing something wrong with what I have as I still cannot place the specific weapons where I want them. I want to depict the accurate HAWK forward, Nike-Herc rear configuration. Likewise for the Warsaw Pact forces with SA-2 and 3's farther east protecting fixed assets and the SA-6's forward covering maneuver units.

 

Also pondering the possibility of adding mobile ADA systems to ground formations as opposed to where they are now as fixed assets. Chapparel and Vulcan's are divisional level assets and would not be found protecting airfields - unless they were being used by the division's own helicopter units.

[Wrench]

I finally got the to show around a few bases by creating new target areas (as above), but there still seem to be the 'poplulation' problem -- at time not everything shows up in the area. Or the target area shows, with nothing on it.

I think the game engine spawsn/generates the placed objects at random times.

 

These were added directly to Spangle's target's list, but there's supposed to be a powercart next to the HIPAR. Don't ask me why it worked that time....still seems best to have a seperate, very small (500.00) sized target area to add the battery too.

 

I've been taking a break from this for the last week (and for a week or so to come), as I'm working on the 'Red Side', for something for another terrain.

 

But we WILL return to this....far too important to let languish

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Nicholas Bell]

but there still seem to be the 'poplulation' problem -- at time not everything shows up in the area. Or the target area shows, with nothing on it. I think the game engine spawsn/generates the placed objects at random times.

 

True. Also impacted by the "Enemy Skill Level" In attempting to make SAMs and AAA appear, I inadvertently "discovered" the Skill Level "Easy" - nothing shows up. Set to "Hard" equipment shows up (maybe variable? - have not really checked). "Normal" setting randomizes the amount of objects.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Nicholas Bell

[Hawk MMS]

Looks great. Are the nose cones purple? The launchers are usually a little further away from the HIPIR. Also the USMC configuration is 2 launchers for 1 HIPIR.. NOt sure about the way the army did it.

Edited April 24, 2007 by USMC Hawker

[Wrench]

That was just a generic set up for test.

 

No, the noses aren't purple....they're a lovely shade of lavander

I believe these missiles were built in West Hollywood, by an ex-interior designer!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Nicholas Bell]

Also the USMC configuration is 2 launchers for 1 HIPIR.. NOt sure about the way the army did it.

 

Three launchers per HIPIR in ADA.

 

Finally making progress on my attempts and have been able to create a HAWK Battery target area which works - kind of. The fire rate is too low - this unit will not pass it's ARTEP . I fly a flight of 4 MiG-27s in a straight in at 12000 feet from 60 KM out only knock done 1 75% of the time. Once 2 MiGs were downed (out of about 8 runs). In this type of scenario at least 3 should fall all the time, and often all 4. (my major concern was the small basic load of missiles - 36, which could easily be fired off the first few hours of war - the 18 on the launchers would be gone within minutes during a major attack) The missile worked quite well "as advertised" it was the finicky radars and operator headspace which made me pull out what hair I had!

[Wrench]

This is a screenie taken last night near !*&*&^%$, on the project I've been working on:

 

 

This is actually the ONLY HAWK battery on that map, as all the airbases have plenty of their own defenses

 

There area actually several more objects that should have showed up, but I misspelled one, and those that followed it, vanished. Flagpole, another powercart near the CWAR. The other powercart has been moved a little closer.

Was trying to get 'spinner' rims for the truck, but the motor pool said they were 'special order from the factory, and on national/international backorder.' Really bummed me out....

 

--reminder to all terrain tweekers = not only checkthe numbers are sequential, but make sure you use the right name of an object!!!

 

I also got the same results as Mr. Bell did...I was flying a fishbed, and they totally ignored me. Very strange!

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

 

ps: Ed, I did get the inis, just havn't installed the launcher stuff.

[Hawk MMS]

Man does that take me back. Post Cold War days. Hawk without a viable threat. Post desert storm. it took less than a decade for the Corps to send us packing. Layout looks good.

[Lexx_Luthor]

I may have seen something strange, in the stock desert terrain TARGETS file....

 

Whenever TK puts more than one SAM site in a target area, there seems to be another non-sam related object between the SAM site declarations (I may have missed some target areas). The game seemed to ignore SAM sites not seperated by another type of object, but when I inserted an object between the SAM declarations, everything showed up. I didn't check WoV and I don't have WoE, just the SF.

[Nicholas Bell]

I want my missiles exhaust to look like this If you can imagine a huge blowtorch you're close to what it's like. Sounds like one too.

Taken in 1983 at Ft Bliss McGregor Range. I enjoyed being outside rather than "in the van" so I let the junior TCO fire (it's a team effort in all aspects - the 16E Radar Operators have the most fun on the inside being able to hear "for real" target breakup on the doppler. Outside the 16D Missile Crewmen had fun too and where closer than this to the actual launch.) I fired 3 HAWKS @ $250,000 each during my career. Yikes!

 

 

Note the thickness and color of the plume. HIPIR is pointed at the target drone which is farther away and lower to the horizon. TK's program does not simulate the actual missile path which is a parabola which reaches above the target and dives down without power at longer ranges. At 20KM or less it's pretty much a direct path.

 

 

Most of our training was "simulated" which was pretty much like we do for fun, except the computer was connected directly to the equipment. so we didn't need a keyboard or joystick Plus one was being evaluated, which kind of takes away from the fun factor. The evaluators would always end the training run with a down the throat ASM to see if we were good enough to knock it down. I always said if I saw one of them in "real life" it was out the van door and into my trench! Never had to contemplate that for real. Only time I was close was when we loaded the planes (RDF) to invade Iran in the 80's - a little know fact. Grenada changed Reagan's priorities, thank goodness for that.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Nicholas Bell

[herman01]

Quick questions, did any of you guys ever have the problem with your Hawk batteries exploding on the ground when attempting to launch. I do.

[Lexx_Luthor]

herman::

Quick questions, did any of you guys ever have the problem with your Hawk batteries exploding on the ground when attempting to launch. I do.

Just now getting into SAM experiments, and I've seem to have found that ECM can cause a missile to lose track, and when that happens the missile self-destructs by detonating the warhead, even just after launch. This is a HUGE problem with nucular warhead SAMs. That might be what you are seeing. Does the target aircraft have good ECM?

[Fubar512]

herman::

Just now getting into SAM experiments, and I've seem to have found that ECM can cause a missile to lose track, and when that happens the missile self-destructs by detonating the warhead, even just after launch. This is a HUGE problem with nucular warhead SAMs. That might be what you are seeing. Does the target aircraft have good ECM?

 

I can guarantee that his problem lies elsewhere. Lexx.

 

Herman, make sure that your Hawk missile entries in the weapondata.ini look like this:

 

[WeaponDataXXXX]
TypeName=I-Hawk
FullName=I-Hawk
ModelName=Hawk
Mass=584.000000
Diameter=0.150000
Length=5.080000
AttachmentType=
NationName=USMC
StartYear=1972
EndYear=2020
Availability=2
BaseQuantity=3
Exported=TRUE
ExportStartYear=1969
ExportEndYear=2020
ExportAvailability=2
WeaponDataType=1
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketPod=FALSE
Retarded=FALSE
Streamlined=TRUE
FinStabilized=TRUE
SpinStabilized=FALSE
HasGrowl=FALSE
EffectClassName=LargeMissileEffects
ReleaseDelay=2.000000
WarheadType=0
Explosives=54.000000
FusingDistance=15.000000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=12
Accuracy=80
MaxTurnRate=20.000000
MaxLaunchG=6.000000
LockonChance=90
LaunchReliability=95
ArmingTime=2.000000
SeekerFOV=135.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=60.000000
SeekerTrackRate=11.000000
SeekerRange=55000.000000
MinLaunchRange=500.000000
MaxLaunchRange=55000.000000
Duration=183.000000
CounterCountermeasure=60.000000
NoiseRejection=40.000000
CapabilityFlags=0x00000030
BoosterStart=0.000000
BoosterDuration=25.000000
BoosterAccel=33.700001
BoosterEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect
BoosterSoundName=Missile
BoosterNodeName=
BoosterPosition=0.000000,-2.600000,0.000000
SustainerDuration=0.000000
SustainerAccel=0.000000
SustainerEffectName=
SustainerSoundName=
SustainerPosition=0.000000,-2.600000,0.000000
InFlightEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect
InFlightSoundName=
ReleaseAnimationID=-1
EODisplayFlags=0

[WeaponDataXXXX]
TypeName=SP-Hawk
FullName=SP-Hawk
ModelName=Hawk
Mass=584.000000
Diameter=0.150000
Length=5.080000
AttachmentType=
NationName=USMC
StartYear=1967
EndYear=1971
Availability=2
BaseQuantity=3
Exported=TRUE
ExportStartYear=1969
ExportEndYear=2020
ExportAvailability=2
WeaponDataType=1
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketPod=FALSE
Retarded=FALSE
Streamlined=TRUE
FinStabilized=TRUE
SpinStabilized=FALSE
HasGrowl=FALSE
EffectClassName=LargeMissileEffects
ReleaseDelay=2.000000
WarheadType=0
Explosives=54.000000
FusingDistance=15.000000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=12
Accuracy=80
MaxTurnRate=20.000000
MaxLaunchG=6.000000
LockonChance=90
LaunchReliability=95
ArmingTime=2.000000
SeekerFOV=135.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=60.000000
SeekerTrackRate=11.000000
SeekerRange=55000.000000
MinLaunchRange=500.000000
MaxLaunchRange=55000.000000
Duration=183.000000
CounterCountermeasure=60.000000
NoiseRejection=40.000000
CapabilityFlags=0x00000020
BoosterStart=0.000000
BoosterDuration=25.000000
BoosterAccel=33.700001
BoosterEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect
BoosterSoundName=Missile
BoosterNodeName=
BoosterPosition=0.000000,-2.600000,0.000000
SustainerDuration=0.000000
SustainerAccel=0.000000
SustainerEffectName=
SustainerSoundName=
SustainerPosition=0.000000,-2.600000,0.000000
InFlightEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect
InFlightSoundName=
ReleaseAnimationID=-1
EODisplayFlags=0

 

After you've performed and saved the edits, you'll need to reopen the weapondata.ini with the weapon editor and save it again, so as to create an updated weapondata.dat file. Also, make sure that you edit the HawkL_Data.ini as follows:

 

[Missile1]

SystemType=MISSILE

MissileID=1

WeaponTypeName=I-Hawk

WeaponPosition=-0.80,0.75,2.50

ShowMissile=TRUE

IndependentPitchMovement=FALSE

 

[Missile2]

SystemType=MISSILE

MissileID=2

WeaponTypeName=I-Hawk

WeaponPosition=0.80,0.75,2.50

ShowMissile=TRUE

IndependentPitchMovement=FALSE

 

[Missile3]

SystemType=MISSILE

MissileID=3

WeaponTypeName=I-Hawk

WeaponPosition=0.00,0.75,3.00

ShowMissile=TRUE

IndependentPitchMovement=FALSE

[Fubar512]

I want my missiles exhaust to look like this

 

Is this what your looking for, Nick?

 

[Nicholas Bell]

and I've seem to have found that ECM can cause a missile to lose track, and when that happens the missile self-destructs by detonating the warhead, even just after launch.

I don't know if it will stop the problem, but be sure to edit the HAWK missile to enable TOJ. Perhaps not losing lock will stop the self-destruct. It was our ace up the sleeve. Jam us, please - then we don't need to maintain lock. (note to self - remember to blink ECM when flying <G>)

[Nicholas Bell]

Is this what your looking for, Nick?

 

 

Oooh, yes! That doesn't look at all the like the LargeSAMTrailEffect.ini I am using. Can you provide your .ini edit pretty please?

 

The LargeMissileFireEffect.ini as shown here could use your touch, too(hey, it can't hurt to ask:biggrin:). The spiral effect doesn't create the solid flame as can be seen in the actual launch photo.

[jtin]

I know Fubar512 has made an updated one, but I'm not sure if that's the same one.

 

There should be an .ini edits sticky with all of the .ini edits that get lost in old threads. Like the bump mapping... and the delaying of SAM salvoes.

 

I'm a noob at this stuff, but could the radius be a problem? I'm not sure if it's just there for the Debug, or if objects outside the radius of the target area get cut off.

[Lexx_Luthor]

Nicholas Bell::

Lexx::

and I've seem to have found that ECM can cause a missile to lose track, and when that happens the missile self-destructs by detonating the warhead, even just after launch.

 

I don't know if it will stop the problem, but be sure to edit the HAWK missile to enable TOJ. Perhaps not losing lock will stop the self-destruct. It was our ace up the sleeve. Jam us, please - then we don't need to maintain lock. (note to self - remember to blink ECM when flying <G>)

That's a good tip, however I don't want HOJ for early SAMs. But some trick or hack might work here with some creative thought bubbles.

 

 

Solid expanding flame.....in the second pic, we see a game engine compromise for simplicity (I *think*)-- the flame gets longer in direct porportion to the missile speed, causing the small flame particles to be visibly distinct, so it may be a bit too long here. Shucks, at launch, the entire flame is a round ball, as I didn't get the particle ejection velocity to work here with missile exhaust like it works for afterburner exhausts. I might could try again, perhaps look more closely at how TK does it.

 

 

As the speed gets higher, and the flame gets longer, the particles begin to seperate. Below you can see the first particle behind the missile and its distinct from the others. This is a crazy shot, a direct hit in another millisecond or so. The altitude is 14km and the V-750 model's solid first stage is still attached because here I am using it for the liquid single stage V-300. Polak poasted a pic of the real thing he/she is working on at the ThudWire...

 

Polak's 3D model and skin ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...54&start=24

 

I suggest using the stock Flash.tga and experimenting with particle time duration, size, and colour. I'm using my own flash-like tga file. I could upload it but honestly, my effects are made for long range visibility (100km or so) of many dozens of these things visible from the player's cockpit for strategic operations in day and night -- the compromises I make to save framerates are not always close-up cameo screenshot friendly.

 

 

** I could add more flame particles for better static screenshot, but I budget everything in the sim for framerates and grafix particle resources, and the just visible distinct particles seen in the long flame pic above are never noticeable in strategic operations gameplay when in the cockpit -- if the missile is close, it flies too fast to really see the flame in detail -- if the missile is far away, the player sees only a slowly moving bright yellow hairline 50km away -- etc... stuff like that.

 

**** I get a rather noticeable round flame ball at launch on this missile because I'm launching almost vertically at very low acceleration -- about 3 gees -- so it takes a few seconds for the missile to pick up speed and get a nice long flame. From a player's cockpit at 14km altitude none of this really noticeable, so I'm okay here.

Edited April 27, 2007 by Lexx_Luthor

[Nicholas Bell]

I envy you guys who have such deep understanding of how to make and alter this simulated world we enjoy. Effects, 3D models, skins, maps, terrain tiles, FM's...it just boggles my mind. It isn't much but, but here is something I do understand a bit about:

 

Here is an optimal US Army HAWK full battery layout up to the mid 80s when the PAR and BCC/ICC were phased out in favor of 2 AFP's (Assault Fire Platoons) per battery. These used the ICWAR (Improved Continuous Wave Acquisition Radar) for which there is no model in the sim. Please note that what is currently called a CWAR in the HAWK object add-ons is mislabed - it is really the PAR (Pulse Acquisition Radar). Also, the ROR (Range Order Radar - used to obtain ranging information when the HIPIR lost it due to ECM) is not represented in the sim. Nor is there a need given how the sim works.

 

The "down range" equipment (Firing Sections of 1 HIPIR and 3 Launchers) are about 80-110 meters apart.

 

It's amazing how this conversation has brought back so many memories I have not thought about for almost 20 years!

 

[TargetArea###]

Name=HAWK Battery

Position=XXXXXX.000,YYYYYY.000

Radius=700.000

ActiveYear=0

Location=1

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Target[001].Type=HAWK_HIPIR

Target[001].Offset=70.000,70.000

Target[001].Heading=90

Target[002].Type=HAWKL

Target[002].Offset=70.000,170.000

Target[002].Heading=0

Target[003].Type=HAWKL

Target[003].Offset=140.000,140.000

Target[003].Heading=45

Target[004].Type=HAWKL

Target[004].Offset=170.000,70.000

Target[004].Heading=90

Target[005].Type=HAWK_CWAR

Target[005].Offset=-50.0,50.0

Target[005].Heading=180

Target[006].Type=USTruck

Target[006].Offset=000.00,000.00

Target[006].Heading=90

Target[007].Type=USTruck

Target[007].Offset=000.00,005.00

Target[007].Heading=90

Target[008].Type=HAWK_HIPIR

Target[008].Offset=70.000,-70.000

Target[008].Heading=90

Target[009].Type=HAWKL

Target[009].Offset=170.000,-70.000

Target[009].Heading=90

Target[010].Type=HAWKL

Target[010].Offset=140.000,-140.000

Target[010].Heading=135

Target[011].Type=HAWKL

Target[011].Offset=70.000,-170.000

Target[011].Heading=180

[Lexx_Luthor]

NBell::

It's amazing how this conversation has brought back so many memories I have not thought about for almost 20 years!

You just made me think, a conversation like this is rapidly becoming impossible for a World War 1 sim webboard. Thanks for sharing your stuff.

[Hawk MMS]

NBell::

You just made me think, a conversation like this is rapidly becoming impossible for a World War 1 sim webboard. Thanks for sharing your stuff.

Edited April 27, 2007 by USMC Hawker

[Hawk MMS]

Wouldnt upload correctly last night. This is from Mountan Top at barking Sands pacific Missile Range Kauai. The only time I went some where other than the desert. We were using Remote Engagement Sites (RES) which would consist of a HIPIR, 2 launchers a humvee a TAS camera set up and a laptop (plus reloads, pallets, loader, generators, etc). Acquisiton was through a remoted CWAR miles down the beach, AWACS, AEGIS, TPS-59 and the CEC system.

 

http://techdigest.jhuapl.edu/td1804/zinger.pdf

 

Edited April 27, 2007 by USMC Hawker

[Fubar512]

Nick, the only problem I can envision with that setup (in-game) is that it doesn't provide 360-degree coverage. You see, to prevent a battery from salvoing off all its birds at once, we've had to place a limit on the yaw axis of the Hawk launcher. So, if you mirror that deployment on the other side of the battery, everything would be fine.

 

Again, it's a game-limitation that needs to be overcome by placement.