A civilian idea...

[+pcpilot 181]

I was thinking the other day...yeah, yeah, I know, dont do it a lot...but I was thinking it would be nice to be able to fly more civilian planes in SF, perhaps even in a civilian enviorment. I was thinking most of the map and terrains we have now would do just fine. War's dont go on forever you know. Maybe some guru might show us how to remove most military bases and static military equipment to revert to more of a "normal" feel. Maybe convert existing bases to civilian style airports. These terrains could then be installed in thier own install of SF.

What Im wondering about also is what could we do to enhance a more civilian "atmosphere" like background ground control or tower radio sounds. Add some air traffic. Then which existing aircraft might we convert to a civilian mod? Some aircraft like O-1 or L-19 would probably just need a new civilian paint job is all. The OV-10 Bronco could be painted like Ca. fire fighters. Didnt someone do some civilian airliners a while back? Maybe a B-52 cockpit would make them flyable. Maybe a 3D modder could even do a twin engine cessna or 737! I doubt we could quite get to MS flight sim capability and immersion but it might be fun for an occasional flight around the nieghborhood without getting whacked by a passing MiG... Just a thought Ive been mulling over and decided to toss out into the arena and see what transpires...

[+Dave 2,318]

God when you think, you really think....

[Wrench 9,556]

EEEWWWW!!! fly around and not blow stuff up!!!! My god...it'd be just like....FS!!!!

 

Actually, it would be kinda cool to just troll around the map once and a while, sightseeing. You could even make a 'Truckhenge' (albeit they won't be standing on end, but in a nice set of circles). We have ruins, the Pyramids, various thingamabobs.

Be easy enough to do...just remove all the references to air defneses in the targets ini for the terrain in question. Have no weapons; remove them from each individual aircraft, both guns/missiles/bombs/fish slappers, etc.

 

What I really want is some japanese monsters...I want a GODZILLA!!! (ok, I miss the Atomic Moth and Quetzcoatal from FA....)

 

safe in his padded cell...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Guest Saganuay82]

Airliners?

 

 

Airliners are fun, just need more types. 737 747 A320 MD11 MD80 and so on.

 

[+pcpilot 181]

LOL, Im still not sure its really "thinking" Im doing here but...yeah, I thought itd be a different twist to this sim. I remembered something...didnt someone do a C-47/DC-3 awhile back? Maybe Capun? The PT-17 has been a blast flying around since FE came out with its better prop FM. Ive also enjoyed the L-19. (yeah, wierd, I know...) Check out the http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/historic-aircraft.html and their civilian painted birds.

 

 

PS. Alllllright Sag....where ya been hidin the 'liner dude...???

Edited June 6, 2007 by pcpilot

[Guest Saganuay82]

What airliner?

 

[eraser_tr 29]

It's already been done.

 

http://www.gogamer.com/Microsoft-Flight-Si...2VVviewprod.htm

 

They managed to not split terrain into maps and have really pretty graphics and dynamic weather. But you need a beefy system. And you can't blow stuff up if you suddenly felt like it. And you can fly over where your house is supposed to be and complain how wrong they got the area, even with the best addons

[FastCargo 412]

I'd have to agree with eraser on this one. Now that you can have 'missions' in MSFS (and pretty good ones), it's really tough to turn a combat flight simulator into a non-combat one and be able to justify the time and effort. Especially with the terrain...

 

FastCargo

[Shashman 0]

A fair idea for sure, and I can imagine quite a few scenarios involving civilian airliners and civilian airports, but your idea of using them to fly around sightseeing makes me wonder... Why? At least in MSFS the terrain is more detailed and interesting to look at, but in TW sims, the terrain isn't their strong point, on the contrary, they're pretty basic to say the least. No landmarks, roads, proper cities, areas of natural beauty etc...

[+whiteknight06604 931]

"What I really want is some japanese monsters...I want a GODZILLA!!! (ok, I miss the Atomic Moth and Quetzcoatal from FA....)"

 

I have wanted that for years.A giant "godzilla" ground vehicle that breaths fire or electricity would be cool.We need somthing to use those cool F-4EJ,F-104Js and Sabres against.Hell the Mi24 Chaffee would fit in perfectly too. :)

[Guest Saganuay82]

IFR flight can be simulated, not well but it can be done. The waypoints can act as NAVaids if you shut them off so you can't see the white triangle.

 

You could make a mission where you ramp start, taxi and take off. Climb to your assigned cruise alt and proceed on course.

[+Zurawski 33]

Personally I like the whole civilian idea...

 

For no other reason than to open up the potential scope of modeled aircraft.

 

At some point we are going to run out of military planes to model... I think its only prudent to expand the scope of the game engine.

 

Additionally, this also opens up Pandora's box for the terrain builders. Granted they won't be able model entire continents... but a highly detailed Australia or Grand Canyon would be quit spiffy!

 

I know for a fact we have the talent in our community to build civilian models that would exceed the detail and quality of the MS stuff...

Edited June 6, 2007 by Zurawski

[+pcpilot 181]

I was thinking in terms kinda like Zur...this might breath some new life into the game, add to its functionality down the line, (think improvements in Navaids and Ground control), and since for many of us this is a hobby, it would give us more to do. The terrains right now certainly are not perfect for a civilian sim, they are something we'd have to work on. We might be able to peice together a passable tempory civilian mod pretty quick but to make it really cool would take time, and therein lies a new challenge for us. Like Zur said, maybe an Austrailia or Grand Canyon would be cool. Then perhaps, imagine a scenario or even campaign were the civilian world is suddonly enveloped in a war... F-15s suddenly deployed to the Pheonix sunport to repel an invasion from Mexico...ok, just an idea but run with it fellas. Gosh, cant stop adding a little excitement and danger, lol. I'd love to use the mission editor to add a civilian liner or lite cessna traffic on a time scheduled entrance just to make it a little more challenging. I wonder if the present in-flight commands we give wingmen and squadrons couldnt be modified to allow for ground control; maybe TK would be willing to do something like that. Maybe he would help with the Navaids too.

Imagine a San Diego/Oceanside terrain with Marine aircraft from Pendleton and Navy aircraft from North Island and off-shore carriers, civilian liners from Lindburgh field, and lite aircraft from Montgomery field, oh, and a TV news chopper flying over the local freeways...shouldnt be too boring...

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Concorde would be interesting. I always like the Constellation. However...

 

Zur::

At some point we are going to run out of military planes to model...

Not possible. Will never happen.

 

Zur, your F-86F will be doing amazing things over Siberia (I don't think the Antons and Emils have the range). I may need some "real" hypersonic fantasy vehicles to replace the slow B-70 (!) ... You are into that. Can I interest in you modelling some simple classical hypersonic shapes? No need for high polygons at Mach 5 and 100k feet, except in the crew section perhaps, as lately I've been placing various cockpits inside external models with surprising results.

 

The first I read on the hypersonics was here ~> http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/waverider/main.shtml

 

Yak-19 would be my most personally desired 3D model, but its little known. Very much like Pasko's La-15 but with straight wings. Any chance for a Tu-128 or F-101? We don't need a rotating weapons bay as its never seen from the cockpit and the high speeds and distances of missile combat. If I recall, the previous F-101 attempt stumbled on the fancy wep bay and then real life came up.

 

MiG-9 and B-36 and .... military planes will never run out.

[Guest Saganuay82]

Oh and PC, the airliner is the civ vers that comes with the A310 MRTT. The civvie skin is actually SFP1 Airways. No drouges on that one.

 

You want the skins, I can send them along when I get home tonight. I was also working on a Lufthansa skin. I have made intercept missions for those civvie airliners for my CF188. I have them take off from various bases in EASTCAN and fly waypoints to go land somewhere else. Fun sorting it out on radar.

 

The ATC aspect of it as a seperate program would be great. MSFS does it now and they are on their 3rd ATC program for multiplayer. They had ProController, ASRC and now VRC. This all run on the VATSIM network. All we need is a programmer that can make one that can see the map and all planes that are flying. You could have it set to say Military or Civilian settings where on Military only your friendlies would show up as tagged with datablocks and the enemy would be uncorrelated radar tracks. Civilian radar setting would show you all tags. Some range and bearings readouts would be great too.

 

Need a programmer now willing and capable of doing that.

[+Zurawski 33]

Lexx,

 

Sounds interesting... problem is I'm in the middle of two projects and I quite honestly don't have enough time for even these!

 

I can tell you from experience (Talon) that hypersonic speeds will require someone with oodles (yup, technical term) of FM knowledge... I had to fudge engine stuff just to get the Talon into the Mach 4 range...

 

Also... I concede that we may never "run" out of military planes... but we may run out of "interesting" ones to model...

 

LOL!

[eraser_tr 29]

I contest that, you can't run out of interesting military aircraft. I find alot of the often un modeled military aircraft quite interesting. And don't forget all the X-craft that could be armed. It's always interesting to see what could have been, but never was had some aircraft seen combat as they were intended.

 

It would be a noble effort, but civilian only flight would be better left to MSFS, the SF/WOX engine loses all its advantages when the simple fun of combat is taken out. in FS you have gorgeous terrain and weather, etc to make just flying around enjoyable, whereas when I fly a mission in SF where I don't encounter any enemies, I feel cheated.

 

Neutral civilian traffic in campaigns would be absolutely wonderful, much less safe to just fire off BVR missiles with a greater chance of hitting an enemy than not.

[+Zurawski 33]

I contest that, you can't run out of interesting military aircraft. I find a lot of the often un modeled military aircraft quite interesting. And don't forget all the X-craft that could be armed. It's always interesting to see what could have been, but never was had some aircraft seen combat as they were intended.

 

It would be a noble effort, but civilian only flight would be better left to MSFS, the SF/WOX engine loses all its advantages when the simple fun of combat is taken out. in FS you have gorgeous terrain and weather, etc to make just flying around enjoyable, whereas when I fly a mission in SF where I don't encounter any enemies, I feel cheated.

 

Neutral civilian traffic in campaigns would be absolutely wonderful, much less safe to just fire off BVR missiles with a greater chance of hitting an enemy than not.

 

Ya know... I can't even get away with being sarcastic around here! LOL!

 

I agree with you more than you think. This is partly why I choose such obscure and or unique aircraft to model... (save the Sabres of coarse).

 

Now just playing devils advocate... there's nothing stopping us from drumming up a "post apocalyptic" mod... and slap a gun-pod and a Cessna is there?

[+russouk2004 6,951]

Red Bull Air Racing too?...just a thought...for MP that is...;)

R

[+Zurawski 33]

Red Bull Air Racing too?...just a thought...for MP that is...;)

R

 

 

Hmmm...

 

Concidering the MPs limited scope... this is an excellent diversion!

 

New terrain? New (colorful) planes? A reason to go online?

 

Sounds too good to be true!

 

[+Major Lee 18]

Well, I can think of several military birds I would like to see in SF... As for the Grand Canyon, I think I have that laying around somewhere... :yes: Anybody want to trade the Grand Canyon for a P-47Q???

[+Dave 2,318]

Rare Bear could make an appearance.....hey we may be on to something......SF Air Races. Ken, you know you can make the terrain with some pylons. Even I would be interested in this.

[+Major Lee 18]

Rare Bear could make an appearance.....hey we may be on to something......SF Air Races. Ken, you know you can make the terrain with some pylons. Even I would be interested in this.

 

Actually, one idea I talked about with TK waaayyy back was an air race scenario with tall columns and some kind of timer that trips when you enter the course and ends when you exit the other end... We do have the F8F, from Geo IIRC.... There are also Typhoon IIs and the P51 already in-game... An air race is do-able :yes: Making terrain pylons is also a possibility...

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Zur::

Lexx,

 

Sounds interesting... problem is I'm in the middle of two projects and I quite honestly don't have enough time for even these!

 

That Sabre model is AwSim. I'm thinking of getting the first month's free version of 3DMax, and see if in that time I can whip up an R-80 missile, and some flat cloud layers (as 3D objects). I can't afford to drop 3k anytime soon. I'll have to study up on it first so I can have some idea of how to use the program before the month starts.

 

3D "solid" cloud layers, properly textured, with holes in them might allow the long range lighting effects I use to work properly. And, it would allow partial overcast over part of a large map, instead of all clear or all overcast everywhere. Also, the ThirdWire overcast disables the Environment file's sky lighting effects.

[+Major Lee 18]

I guess we can all start making our own customized personal airshow and race skins for our favorite SF mounts... :yes: