Battle of Britain Campaign Feedback

[+Stary 2,427]

Brandy -no teasing, no grunt work -if you read carefully you will know that they (the 27 towns) have been added to targets ini -installation would be simple copy&paste operation But you're right -now I noticed it's a bit topic hijacking. Sorry.

 

(runs away to his cave)

[keith 0]

Fantastic work, fellow prop-head! It's gonna really feel like you are flying to defend something worth definding!

 

Question: If you define a convoy escort as a CARGO_SHIP, will it still defend itself while you bomb it?

[+Stary 2,427]

Keith you mean a Cargo type vessel as an escort?

If it's equipped with some kind of armament, should do attack. Will check in KMD after work. The armed Cargo Ships Baltika showed us on page 4 are for D/L?

[+Baltika 85]

Tally-ho, chaps

 

Apologies for my recent reticence - R/L matters have been occupying my attention as of late. But it's always great to pop along and see what's happening in the world of BoB - especially with such great work going on

 

 

 

CA, your villages are simply eye-poppingly good and I can't wait to see them implemented. FAB stuff

 

 

keith-

 

In answer to a couple of questions you have asked, first, your problems with anti-ship missions. This has happened to me a couple of times as well, and I think CA has hit the nail on the head - the reason for it is, I think, the game engine can't find any suitable shipping targets - which would be explained if you had misplaced you GroundObjects folder. I take it you have it sorted now?

 

Second, the vexed issue of changing groundobjectrole to CARGO_SHIP in order to get e.g. Destroyers as targets in anti-shipping missions. This was first suggested in the readme to the excellent WW2 Euro terrain available at MajorLee's site. Worked fine for me back then, detroyers and cruisers would show up, sail around, and, yes, shoot back at you. Over on the "Adding ships" thread here, people have run into problems with that change causing CTDs, which I now get when I try it on the BoB terrain. Try it out and see how you go - but, yes, the ships should fire back.

 

 

CA -

 

As to my armed cargo ships featured earlier in this thread, not yet available for download, but (you know what I'm going to say now ) they will be in v0.60, which is starting to take on the mythical status of Operation Sealion.

 

 

Cheers for now,

 

baltika

Edited August 22, 2007 by Baltika

[keith 0]

Hi Baltika!

 

No, I have not seen any RAF units in France, nor do all the Lufwaffe units scrunch up behind Calais so perhaps it was your install?

 

Reinstated my GroundObject folder and all is good - much scrap metal at the bottom of the channel now.

 

Resized a few skins and tweaked my video card and game settings and the performance is much better, although I notice it is just when my prey is perfectly positioned for the killer shot that the stutters appear - grr!

 

Keith

[tank03 1]

I've finally pulled myself from the skies over Vietnam and installed the BoB campaign and it's related mods/add-ons. The result is that I'm left quite speechless; it's a completely engaging and first rate production and my hat is off to Baltika and all the others who have contributed to this. It's like having a completely new flight game. It's certainly rekindled my interest in that time period and I've found myslef pulling out all my old WW2 books to read each evening.

 

CHeers for a job exceptionally well done. Your efforts are truly appreciated and I can't thank you enough for sharing this.

[Jetstreamsky 0]

Hi I need a little help to get on track, I've read dozens of postings to try to solve my issue of no weapons available for my BoB install, I'm wondering if there's a different weapons pack download or something else that I'm missing. I've got the map and the aircraft, just no means to agress other than ramming the enemy :( The weapons folder contains all sorts of modern ordanance from the Bunyap weaponspack update, but I have no period equipment or even basic guns.

 

All help gratefully received,

 

Cheers

 

Allan

[+Baltika 85]

Hi I need a little help to get on track, I've read dozens of postings to try to solve my issue of no weapons available for my BoB install, I'm wondering if there's a different weapons pack download or something else that I'm missing. I've got the map and the aircraft, just no means to agress other than ramming the enemy :( The weapons folder contains all sorts of modern ordanance from the Bunyap weaponspack update, but I have no period equipment or even basic guns.

 

All help gratefully received,

 

Cheers

 

Allan

 

 

Hi Allan,

 

Can you give a bit more detail on your install?

 

What game (SFP1, WoV, WoE?)

Clean install as per readme?

Latest Wep back from Bunyap has everything, so try D/L & installing wep pack again.

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

Cheers,

 

baltika

[Jetstreamsky 0]

.............

Latest Wep back from Bunyap has everything, so try D/L & installing wep pack again.

 

...............

 

Hi Baltika,

 

Thanks for replying, I took your advice and re-installed the WEP pack again and it fixed the problem. Don't know why it didn't work the first time, but I sure glad it works now.

 

Thank you

 

Oh by the way, WOE is the basis.

 

Cheers

 

Allan

[+Baltika 85]

Hi Baltika,

 

Thanks for replying, I took your advice and re-installed the WEP pack again and it fixed the problem. Don't know why it didn't work the first time, but I sure glad it works now.

 

Thank you

 

Oh by the way, WOE is the basis.

 

Cheers

 

Allan

 

 

Hi Allan,

 

Glad you got it going. Post your campaign feedback! (I have a lot of numbers still to go from 0.59 to 1.00!)

 

Anything in particular you had to do to get it going in WoE? Wrench talks about changing the single mission dates in his "era specific" thread in the KB, but my base install is SFP1. It may help some folks to know how you got it going in WoE!

 

Cheers,

 

baltika

[Jetstreamsky 0]

Hi Baltika,

 

Yes I followed Wrench's separate era specific install guidelines, so I changed the dates accordingly, so I can't say if they were necessary or not for WOE to work. I also added era music files from one of the other addons and now that the weapons work I have a flyable WW2 install. I still have a few things to sort out though, I can't click on instant action as that wants an F-15 which has been removed, also for some reason the missions aren't selectable even though I have 2 there. I don't know if it's possible to modify the sound levels of weapons, but I find the Spitfire machine guns almost silent, I had to look outside to see if they were firing. I need to change some load screens to rid myself of modern warplanes in this install. I also installed the large group mod to get swarms of He-111, but that may have been a mistake as frame-rates suffer when you come in for the kill. I need to fine tune control inputs too, pitch sensitivity is too high for me to line up easily, but that is setup specific stuff. I've actually only just bough WoE, so it's all new to me, saw your WW2 mod and had to try it out :)

 

Thanks very much for working on this for all of us to enjoy.

 

Allan

[keith 0]

A very warm welcome to you Allan!

 

I am a confirmed prop head and I have multiple WW2 installs of SFG, as well as WoE and WoV for my jet thrills! I also fly FSX and BoB2WoV. I have kicked CFS2, CFS3 and IL-2 1946 into touch though.

 

Regards

 

Keith

[+Baltika 85]

Hi Allan,

 

1. I included WW2 instant action files in the BoB d/l, should work, check out instantaction.ini (in the /flight folder) and options.ini (in the main install folder) and check that neither files are calling for planes which are not included in your ww2 install.

 

2. Single missions included in the BoB d/l have not been tested - I think they are included as part of Charles' WW2 formations mod, so you will need to open the .msn files in wordpad and check you have the right planes installed, also I think those missions call for the stock desert terrain, so you will need to change that too for a WoE install.

 

3. Sound levels of weapons - I know what you mean, I get that too. Will have to poke around a bit to see what I can come up with. The engines seem very noisy, and the MGs kind of, well, weak. Hmm. . .

 

4. Loading screens - Wrench has some great WW2 ones on his homepage. Also, I think scrapper's WW2 campaign "Fallen Angel" replaces the menu setup from WoE with various WW2 pics, so might be worth checking out (I confess I have d/led his campaign but have not got round to installing it yet - finalising BoB v0.60 for release, oh yes )

 

5. Framerate issues with WW2 formations mod. Yup, got that too. as discussed above, you could try resizing the .bmp files which contain the bomber skins. As ever, it's a question of trading image quality vs performance.

 

Tally ho!

 

baltika

Edited August 26, 2007 by Baltika

[Bandy 3]

Not sure where I saw this site mentioned, I think here at CA, but there are about 170 links to posted a/c manuals, some original historic documents, some analysis reports of captured a/c. Most are excellent reading.

 

See list here...

 

Have a look at Part 1 of the Allied analysis of a captured Me 110. This report is so incredibly detailed, right down to the material used in the rivets, and sheet metal technique applied to the edges of the panels, that I doubt they missed anything.

> p26 discusses the fuel tanks of the Me110. They HAD self-sealing tanks, though they appear to be about only 55% effective at sealing vs. 30 and 50 caliber bullets.

> p175 discusses the cockpit. The canopy has only 1/8th inch thick plexiglass, no armor glass is mentioned. The pilot/gunner/navigator seats are only light metal alloy .040" thick. There is NO mention of any cockpit armor.

> p193 Specifically mention no fire extinguishers in the 110.

 

A report on the Me109 F [i know, I know, the E was flown in BoB...] mentions the following items:

> The F model had self-sealing tanks [the few resources I found on the 109 E say they didn't because of range issues; self-sealing tanks are much heavier and there is a commitment loss in volume as well] with plywood support panels, therefore could be considered to have "wood" armor in SF.

> The pilot seat has 8-10mm armor plates on the back and 4mm on "other areas" [the bottom?]

There is 2.25" armor glass on the windshield, about 80mm thick.

>In addition, on the F model there is a 7/8" thick laminated dural [aluminum???] bulkhead behind the pilot and gas tank, which appears to have been very effective at stopping .303 rounds, less so 50 cal, and 20mm not so much...

 

I'm STILL trying to find that magical comprehensive reference for the 109 E, but IMHO I think the pilot seat armor should be implemented in the DATA INI for BoB. BUT how would one code for the armor-glass? Entering armor in the DATA INI requires that you state a material and aspect [ie: front, bottom, side, etc...], and I've only seen "steel" and "wood" used. Is there a list somewhere of appropriate materials???

 

Opinions sought after, more data/facts would be most welcome...

[Redddevil911 0]

Baltika, any word on new updates? I play you mods lot love them greatly. Do you have anything in the hopper?

[+Gepard 11,289]

New updated version off my BoB terrain will coming soon. Included now some target areas in France.

[+Stary 2,427]

Gepard, you got my PM?

[Bandy 3]

Ok, found out what the laminated Dural bulkhead is composed of on the '109. As I thought, mostly aluminum but there is some interesting history behind it as well, see below if interested. Also explains why searching for Dural turns up very little google hits, it was an obsolete name well before it could appear in websites...

 

But given that the 22mm thick bulkhead behind the 109's fuel tank and pilot is laminated and the alloy tougher than aluminum alone (see below), should the code for this type of armor be "ALUMINUM" or "STEEL" or something else in the '109 DATA INI? Is the code material "ALUMINUM" the same as dural in Strike Fighters? It is documented to be quite effective:

 

From 100 yards range astern, .303 and .5 inch incendiary ammunition will not penetrate the dural bulkhead. At this range 20mm HE/I is still effective for penetrating the bulkhead and igniting the tank. At 200 yards range, the effect of the interposition of the bulkhead is that at 5 degrees off dead astern .303 AP is completely ineffective against the pilot, but .5 AP in about 30% of the cases will pass through the bulkhead and will penetrate the 8mm pilot's armor, even if it has to pass through the tank below fuel level. Twenty mm AP will still be effective in penetrating the pilot's armor.

 

ALSO, can different armor materials be incorporated within the same code for a single node? ie: armoring the pilot node requires coding for the bullet proof glass in front:

>HasArmor=TRUE

>ArmorMaterial=GLASS

>Armorthickness=80

//then the steel plate on the seat behind and below him/her:

>Armor=STEEL

>Armorthickness=10

 

Even if you code it like this, I'm not sure how you could tell whether it was working correctly and not just using the first/second listed type of armor material?

 

 

duralumin [see here]

 

Duralumin (also called duraluminum, duraluminium or dural) is the name of one of the earliest types of age-hardenable aluminium alloys. The main alloying constituents are copper, manganese and magnesium. A commonly used modern equivalent of this alloy type is AA2024, which contains (in wt.%) 4.4% copper, 1.5% magnesium and 0.6% manganese. Typical yield strength is 450 MPa, with variations depending on the composition and temper[1]. It was developed by the German metallurgist Alfred Wilm at Dürener Metallwerke Aktien Gesellschaft. In 1903, Wilm discovered that after quenching, an aluminium alloy containing 4% Cu would slowly harden when left at room temperature for several days. Further improvements led to the introduction of Duralumin in 1909[2]. The name is today obsolete, and mainly used in popular science to describe the Al-Cu alloy system, or 2000 series as designated by the Aluminum Association.

 

Its first use was rigid airship frames. Its composition and heat-treatment were a wartime secret. With this new rip-resistant mixture, duralumin quickly spread throughout the aircraft industry in the early 1930s, where it was well suited to the new monocoque construction techniques that were being introduced at the same time. Duralumin also is popular for use in precision tools such as levels because of its light weight and strength.

 

duralumin (dʊrăl'yəmĭn, dyʊ–) , alloy of aluminum (over 90%) with copper (about 4%), magnesium (0.5%–1%), and manganese (less than l%). Before a final heat treatment the alloy is ductile and malleable; after heat treatment a reaction between the aluminum and magnesium produces increased hardness and tensile strength.

Edited September 1, 2007 by B Bandy RFC

[Bandy 3]

If anyone is interested, TK answered my question at the 3rd Wire forum:

 

We currently don't allow different materials in given node, so it'll just use the first listing. You can, of course, have different material at different places in the airplane, so you might be able to move the bottom and behind armor to the component (instead of system), etc.

 

Or, you could also use an equivalent thickness for different matrials, and use that instead. In game terms, GLASS is rated at strength 4 per mm, ALUMINUM at 16, STEEL at 64. So if you want to have one face GLASS and others STEEL, you can set it to STEEL, and divide the armor thickness where GLASS would be by 16 (64/4) - 80mm of GLASS would have same armor value as 5mm of STEEL, for example.

 

I *think* duralumin is basically aluminum, so its prolly safe to use the ALUMINUM as armor type. If anyone has details on its tensile strengths compared to basic ALUMINUM, you can use their relative strengths to come up with equivalent thickness as above.

 

And in many modern tanks, they use composite materials, and their armor rating is giving using equivalent thickness - not the actual thickness but how thick the amour would have to have the same stopping value if it was made of steel. (for example, composite armor, which in phyiscal thickness only measures 140mm, can have equivalent steel thickness of 500mm or more).

[+Gepard 11,289]

New version of my Battle of Britain terrain is released. You find it at the download section.

[+NeverEnough 78]

Great news, Gepard. Thanks so much!

[Bandy 3]

Yes, thank you!!!

It is very exciting news, though I'm going to contain myself and wait to implement it when the V0.6 comes out...

 

edit: Oh, just saw you have a quick-update download as well. Very considerate, thanks again...

Edited September 10, 2007 by B Bandy RFC

[+Baltika 85]

Just wanted to add my thanks to Gepard for his hard work on updating his BoB terrain to v1.4

 

Cheers mate, the upgrade is thoroughly appreciated, thanks

 

v0.60 of the campaign pack will be released as soon as humanly possible, I promise. Of course, prior installation of Gepard's v1.4 terrain is thoroughly recommended (not to say essential), so don't feel you have to wait, Bandy

[+Baltika 85]

Sorry chaps,

 

I made an abortive attempt to upload the v0.60 package today. I have had to pull the file as a very incomplete version of the package had appeared.

 

Anyone who has uploaded the v0.60 which appeared (briefly) today, please delete it as it will like as not break your install.

 

Working on getting the full version uploaded.

 

Cheers,

 

baltika

[+Baltika 85]

Tally Ho!

 

v0.60 currently awaiting clearance here at combatace

 

Please make sure you have installed Gepard's excellent BoB terrain v1.4 before you install v0.60 of the campaign, or the phased campaign won't run properly, and you will miss out on CA_Stary's fabulous town & village mod (previewed earlier in this thread).

 

A big thank you in particular this time round to B Bandy RFC, CA_Stary, capun and, of course, Gepard for their hard work and encouragement. Cheers guys

 

As ever, all feedback greatly appreciated.

 

But look, I know already, most military historians say the Royal Navy would have scuppered Sealion even if the Luftwaffe had achieved total air superiority. Good job for the Wehrmacht that SFP1/WoV/WoE doesn't model sea battles. . . yet

 

Got my thinking cap on for v0.61

 

Enjoy

 

baltika