Skeptical of buying..

[Exodus 0]

Ok lets get right to it, how realistic is this game? Are we talking Falcon 4.0 realistic or Jane's USAF realistic? Also, does this game actually have hills, ravines, cliffs and those sorts of things? Im sick of these sim's with completly flat ground...

 

Are there some sort of training missions in the game too? If so, is there some text display on the screen telling you whats going on, explaining what to do etc..?

 

The game's concept sounds interesting though. I like the idea of getting more advanced planes as you progress through the campaigns. Also the mercenary pilot thing sounds very cool.

[N42-Hollywood 0]

Exodus....look here to be lead to the promised-land...

 

http://www.xlii.com/reviewdetail.cfm?reviewid=1014

 

 

Any other questions, I'll be happy to help...

 

-Holly

[Target 0]

Well never having flown a jet fighter I don't know how realistic the fm is. And the terrain that came with the game is desert, so yes, its flat.

But, the terrain in Hyper Lobby has mountainous areas and I think people are already working on new scenery.

No training mission. I find, as one who is new to jet sims, that the game has an atmosphere that whoever buys it is already familiar with flying a jet sim. So the only thing the manual really deals with is interface and not so much how to use a jet fighter.

There is a limited amount of text in the easier settings. The HUD is enough for me as I'm familiar with flight sims of the propeller variety. In fact I already quit using the HUD.

If you've had EAW then you will reconize some of the interface in this sim as well as the terrain.

In my opinion, and this is strictly a matter of taste, I like it. Even with the obvious need for a patch to round it out (no ground explosions, erradict wingmen, occasional crash to desk, so forth). This sim, IMHO, has a lot of potential with the open file system and all. I know what people did for CFS2, same thing applies here.

I hear some people have had a real time trying to get it running on their machines. I've had to turn down some of the graphics. I think its a good trade off. Again, disclaimer, IMHO.

[Seawolf 0]

Exodus, i wont lie to ya here. SF is buggy, lacks features, and multiplayer some more work, BUT even so I still enjoy it and know it can only get better. The scenery is desert terrain (default) but it does have some mountains, populated ares, and a pretty big ocean. More terrain Im sure will be added in upcomming 3rd party addons. As far as realism, well if your trying to compare realism to the amount of systems you get to operate then no it is not as involved as Falcon4, but for obvious reasons. This is the 60s where aircraft are still analog and avionics was simple. The radar I fell represents what the radar back then looked like , so i fell in that respect it is realistic. The flight models are pretty good although some still need tweaking, they feel very believable and you get a since of flying a real fighter in the 60s. There are no training missions as of yet, but TK has already said they are working on a mission builder soon so you will be able to create your own training missions or download other user missions Im sure after the mission builder is released.

Whether you should buy it or not is totally up to you. Personally I would (and have) for the simple fact that the sim has tons of potential and TK is providing support. If you want to wait until its patched up a bit then do that as well, but whether you do it now or later, you definantly should pick this one up at some point.

[+pcpilot 181]

I have to agree with Seawolf, the game has its problems. But Third Wire has made known their intention to fix a great deal of these things, plus some other enhancements. The modding community is probably the best I've seen, not only in skill but also enthusiasm. Dont let my negative sounding thread earlier bug you too much or mislead you, I DO like this game.

Oh, and something I noticed yesterday...I had a Mig on my butt that wouldnt let go. Sucker kept chewin away on my bisquits. I decide to head down as fast as I can in AB to the deck. Once I got there, I was pleased to see that the terrain, while a bit bland, DID actually have low hills, and at one point a rather long valley. Mind you, there was no mountains, but there was terrain undulations and some hills. It was pretty cool. By the way, I managed to finally evade that sucker, I think he ran outta gas. So I pull up, throttle way down, head for base...and ran outta gas about a couple miles short of the runway...rats! :)

[BirdDogg 0]

Gotta agree with both Seawolf and PCPilot, I will not however use the word potential. (I just don't like what the spin it puts on things) If the Sams and AAA were working right now I would be getteing toasted I'm sure.

 

This Sim to me does something that few other releases have done in a while (IL-2 not included) and that is put the Fun back into Flightsims without departing from the term Flightsim :) After several sims I can honestly say I'm having Fun and not frustration.

 

Like Seawolf said you can get it now or you can get it a little later but get it nonetheless.

 

BirdDogg 8)

[Weasel Keeper 0]

There are a couple big mountains on the map and rolling hills, I'm just not sure exactly where since it's a huge map. These are seen more frequently in multiplayer since you spawn in that area.

 

Helping out TK and team with flight models and avionics are a few real life fighter jocks. Two that come to my mind are (ret) LtCol Andy Bush who flew F-104s and F-4s in Viet Nam, and Scroll_87FIS who is currently a Major in the AF who trains German crews on F-4Fs in New Mexico. Andy admits the F-104 has a flaw or two...namely the reverse rudder, but the aircraft are pretty close to the real "feel" and the radars are almost spot on.

 

I'm not a huge "prop" guy although I've flown WWII Fighters and CFS2, but I wouldn't see any problem with prop heads learning this game. It's pretty much the same...but faster. ;)

 

My opinion...and I see it's been shared in a couple replies already...even with some of the bugs, this sim is a blast and just fun to fly. :D

[Exodus 0]

Well, you guy's have pretty much convinced me to buy the game now. Im actually going to get it right after I get my HOTAS cougar in a month..do you think a patch will be out by then?

[N42-Hollywood 0]

Yep! totally, the patch is being tested right now and the user base is getting HUGE..lots of cool mods/skins and stuff in the works...

 

-Holly

[MkIX 0]

Well, just to chime in -

 

I'm really sick of software being released before being finished. I've worked with some great development teams, but the marketeers are the culprits usually (eg SF). The pressure for a small to mid-sized development team to get a product on the shelves by the publisher by mid to late October is huge. I feel for TK and the rest because many aspects of P1 are great - and others painfully underdone or left out. I went through the multiple gyrations of Falcon AT, Falcon 3 and then Falcon 4 - and have hung in there. I'm hopeful within a few months TK will address the many mentioned problems. After spending 2 hours on 1 mission, only in the heat of battle to be CTD'ed is too much. Through last weekend I experieced multiple CTD's in both the game and MP. When I first installed and ran the game - the hideous bitmaps for buttons was the first clue that the game was rushed (I've been there, I know)

 

Can you imagine if a car was produced only to lose it's axle 2 weeks after buying, or your big-screen TV blew out during the first day of NFL, or the new Smashing Pumpkins CD you bought skips all over the place - just doesn't happen with proper QA procedures. People now seem to accept this as the norm.

 

Sorry to vent, but I've had it with forced shoddy software production - by that I mean the financial pressure on a small team by greedy publishers to get a product out. I'm sure TK has a greater vision than this...

 

Mark Kaiser

MkIX

mk9@operamail.com

[Dark_Knight_667th 0]

Ok hang on..let me show you about four reasons why the development of this sim was not on the UI..but the eye candy in flight..

 

second..if you are getting ctd's in campaign missions..Defrag your comp..I was getting the same thing..defrag solved it.

 

http://members.cox.net/cptdarkknight/img00002.jpg

http://members.cox.net/cptdarkknight/img00003.jpg

http://members.cox.net/cptdarkknight/img00004.jpg

 

DK

[MkIX 0]

I Know, that stuff is the great part. The models are awesome, the flight feels great. I defragged the HD etc, etc. True, unfinished UI art has no bearing on the sim (eg F4), but it is a certain indicator of unfinished business, like a paperbag bookcover on a almost finished novel.

 

What I'm saying is that as a pro that TK is by his background, I can guess with full confidence that TK is not satisfied with this release. My bitch is on the publisher for forcing an early release.

 

That's my point. Let the developers decide when it's right. The publishers are greedy and will force the product out.

 

MK

[Seawolf 0]

well it's just like politics. Stradegy First pushes SF out before its done because it wants money now instead of a quality product, but when it doesnt sell well because it's buggy or missing features they point the fingers at the Programmers, when its the publisher's fault all along.

 

How come Quake fans don't have to deal with these types of issues???? Is it because they make so much money? or is it a different mindset? or is it that Sim fans are the basterd children of the gaming community??

[Target 0]

Submitted for your consideration, the future of this genre. Some mitigatting factors which directly influence the performance of any NEW sim on any one computer. (As I see it).

1. The variations of hardware. Since more and more people are building their own pc's these days think of the many combinations of hardware in all the computers? (And some say the breakup of MS is a good thing.) With all the different drivers and cards on the market and the the myriad combination of these items, how can the sim be tested for all? Think how many different machines one company would need to be sure their product was/is compatible with all these combinations.

2. Which leads us to number 2. Money. Unfortunately that's how things work in this world and the companies have bills to pay just as anyone else. They can't spend an eternity on development, its not a hobby for them. I don't think that the sim failed to pass the test on their computer.

I think we are beginning to see the trend in sims with CFS3 and SF in that I think part of the reason that companies are pushing unfinished products out the door is because the game passed the test on their machines. They know that they will never be able to put together a sim which will run flawlessly on all machines, so they don't even try. Instead they make it run on what PC they have and then marketed it. The Specs on the box is an average based on their testings on their computers. Then they wait for feedback and prepare to address the issues as they come in. This is a money issue, as said before. How can a company afford to buy enough computers to match all the performances and all the different combinations of hardware to be sure no one has any problems? The more performance in the computers and the more choices we have for different software and hardware in the computers, the less the sims are going to hit the mark out of the box. (I had to upgrade from WinMe to XP to add memory, as I was told that after so much memory WinMe ceases to use it. Go figure.) Automobile manufacterers use all their own parts, not so with computers.

So it appears we will be seeing more and more works in progress. Field testing if you will. Put the basics out there and deal with compatability issues later. This can be a scary thing, if the developer decides to give up. :shock:

Of course this is only an observation and I don't have a degree in business management or economics. But its funny how some people have more "issues" than others with any given game. Performance of PC's being equal.

[+pcpilot 181]

WOW! Exodus, betcha never figured to get this kinda responce eh? LOL! Simmers take their hobby SERIOUS! :shock:

 

Good discussion fellas...

[Exodus 0]

Thanks for the replies everybody. "Strategy First" is becoming quite notorious about pushing their dev team's project out the door in a hurry.. Strategy first also published a game called Word War II Online.. If you thought the release of Strike Fighters was early, you should have seen this game. I bought it the first day it came out, servers weren't even up, couldn't handle anything..

 

Then if you could actually GET in a server, there was a HUGE amount of bugs at the time. I got fed up with it and quit, it took them about 6 months to get things somewhat in order. Did anybody else play this game besides me?

 

 

I totally agree with MkIX, im also sick of software being released before its finished. Now its almost like your preparing for the game to be buggy as hell, and just thinking "Oh they'll come out with a patch". I like publishers that when asked when a game will be released, say "When its done". You know these kinds of games will be good..

[MkIX 0]

Exodus, I worked with a bunch of the guys at Playnet at a previous company (ICI -Warbirds). I knew it (ww2ol) was buggy, so waited until a few months ago to hook up with it - and it still has a long way to go. Having been in the 'trenches', I can gaurantee that TK and crew really were screaming for more time, but if SF holds them to contractual milestones (meaning damn the game being finished, we want it out for Christmas), then Third Wire suffers the consequences by reputation, not SF.

 

Too bad, should be the other way around.

 

As for the game working on the company's boxes, then it's OK to ship is the problem. That's Alpha testing. To make sure most of the kinks are worked out on different boxes and configurations, there has to be a proper Beta program - at least 3 months IMHO. I still can't get through a mission without a CTD.

 

I'll keep the game and takes my chances, and am heading out to Chino (Planes of Fame) to get some cockpit reference for the Mig17 and 19 and crack open MAX after a bit of a hiatus ;P

 

MkIX