Rant on

[Silverbolt 104]

"if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

you said all

i think, if you have to critique some plane, you need to do it in a construtive critic, or stay silent. simple as that, but ever be grateful.

thats im my case, im ever grateful, sometimes i exed myself with "gimme gimme", but i recognize ,and excuese myself.

but i think i understand the modders think, to work hard for "nothing".

so i ever grateful of all modders work i have on my HD.

[+Dave 2,319]

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol? (and I'm talking respectful, constructive, critical feedback here, not simply bitching and whining) If you notice a problem or inaccuracy with a mod, should you say something to the creator (maybe they overlooked that one thing) or simply let it go? Use a PM or post in the forum? Is there a reasonable level of community feedback, or should you simply keep your mouth shut for everything? Should the creators include a note in the README that says whether they want feedback or not?

 

The reason I ask is I'm starting to work on some stuff of my own and I'd want to know where I went wrong in the interests of improving my skills.

 

Feedback is always welcome but have you read where some just pick a mod apart totally? Or then the plain whining...like an example....people were actually PMing Sundowner and complaining that they couldn't use his high res skins and requested that he didn't do them at 2048x2048.....I mean are they serious?

[tank03 1]

Feedback is always welcome but have you read where some just pick a mod apart totally? Or then the plain whining...like an example....people were actually PMing Sundowner and complaining that they couldn't use his high res skins and requested that he didn't do them at 2048x2048.....I mean are they serious?

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say that some people just don't realise that they are being jerks (or maybe they do and that's what makes them not a jerk, but a complete a$$hole)

[+Dave 2,319]

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say that some people just don't realise that they are being jerks (or maybe they do and that's what makes them not a jerk, but a complete a$$hole)

 

Then that means they are suffering cranial anal inversion...and need to remove it from said orifice.

[column5 62]

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol?

 

In my opinion, if someone sees a problem and can provide documentation in the form of phots or quotes from an authoritative source to back it up, they should always post that, or at least PM someone on the mod team about it. The problem arises when someone posts nebulous comments about, for example, flight models not "feeling" right when they have never flown an airplane before. The secret is that most of us have never flown a real plane, and even fewer have flown an F-4, or F-14 or any other military aircraft, so we do our best to approximate things and its no help whatsoever to receive a lot of purely subjective feedback on it.

[gambit168 27]

Being flamed by the ole "dude u suk" bragade Sadly will always be out there lerking in the depths

some people just cant help themselves there compeled to shoot u down in flames

its catch 22, if you dont put your mod out "NOw" U suk, & if u rush it through BEta cos theres crowin bout Y R we still Waitin man

you'll get something like

Hey man It didnt fly like that,my teachers friends dog flew 1, and yours just dont feel right

I guess u can Never please all the people all of the time

ITs ment to be FUn for "all" the modders as well

 

Id really love to be savvy enough in Max to make some stuff & help out , sadly im in cs3 all my spare time (cos i lov it)

BUt i treat my SKINNIN like my 1/48th scale modeling, its my hobby for me, when i feel like doing it ,& im pleased to share

BUT only when its good and ready, no stress & no pressure is the key i think

badgering people tends to have the opposite effect than desired lots of times

Edited November 23, 2007 by gambit168

[Piloto 3]

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

 

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

 

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

 

 

Yes and No.

 

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!

Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.

Im not im favour of criticism but i dont like seing people that dont bother to make a better work effort just to launch a bunch of "low quality" (still better than the ones i make ) models just to say their modders, in detriment off some hard working fellows over there! Its just plain old semantics.

The No is in the part of some rivet count whiners that make averybody sick over here. Criticism is good in a constructive kinda way.

 

Relesing a note in the read-me" this is a as-it-is mod, dont like it dont play it" would work too. (i think)

[Piloto 3]

Well that is a misconception, no one is modding for compliments and the appreciation from anyone. As Column5 said, we do it for ourselves, its just a bonus that the community get to use the fruits of our labor. Ask any modder here and they will tell you the same thing. I got tons of mods I have done and have not released to anyone. Some of us modders mod and just give it to other modders. i.e. keep it in house. I have no ego to bruise and do not need anyone to kiss my ass over a mod. Thank you are nice but its not why we do it.

Gripen is coming we just need an FM for it. Our FM guy is gone for right now though.

 

 

Sorry to disagree but some are. And it doesnt matter because its fine though. Everybody should get the thank yous and the compliments because your/their work are simply amazing.

I just think its plain stupid to be egobruised with plain old boffunery (learn this word with hornetfixr )

Edited November 23, 2007 by Piloto

[+Dave 2,319]

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!

Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.

 

Not true, who gave them a license to criticize it to begin with? Its free, and technically not open for debate. Don't like it, don't download it. But if you are going to, you better be able to back it up and it needs to be constructive and for the most part it never is.

[column5 62]

Sorry to disagree but some are. And it doesnt matter because its fine though. Everybody should get the thank yous and the compliments because your/their work are simply amazing.

 

Public recognition is never a good reason to do anything. That just makes you a politician and we know what that means.

[+Sundowner 4,583]

In my opinion, if someone sees a problem and can provide documentation in the form of phots or quotes from an authoritative source to back it up, they should always post that, or at least PM someone on the mod team about it. The problem arises when someone posts nebulous comments about, for example, flight models not "feeling" right when they have never flown an airplane before. The secret is that most of us have never flown a real plane, and even fewer have flown an F-4, or F-14 or any other military aircraft, so we do our best to approximate things and its no help whatsoever to receive a lot of purely subjective feedback on it.

 

Absolutly Don, IMHO most wip pics are the modders way of saying..."this is what I have so far, how's it looking"....we're not looking for a pat on the back, more for re-assurance that things are ok.

[Piloto 3]

Not true, who gave them a license to criticize it to begin with? Its free, and technically not open for debate. Don't like it, don't download it. But if you are going to, you better be able to back it up and it needs to be constructive and for the most part it never is.

 

 

Thats what constructive criticism is right?

 

 

 

 

Public recognition is never a good reason to do anything. That just makes you a politician and we know what that means.

 

 

True but sometimes i see it that way. Seem some people are modders to reach that and act conformably.

Only glad thats not the most of them, neither here at CA.

[Piloto 3]

Absolutly Don, IMHO most wip pics are the modders way of saying..."this is what I have so far, how's it looking"....we're not looking for a pat on the back, more for re-assurance that things are ok.

 

 

Exactly! But i remind a model a couple months ago that someone said the nose was too low or curved and the modder took it personaly.

 

constructive criticism has boundaries and its not rivet-counting

[+Dave 2,319]

gambit168 said it best....

 

But I treat my SKINNIN like my 1/48th scale modeling, its my hobby for me, when i feel like doing it ,& im pleased to share

[+Dave 2,319]

Exactly! But i remind a model a couple months ago that someone said the nose was too low or curved and the modder took it personaly.

 

constructive criticism has boundaries and its not rivet-counting

 

People are sensitive to different things. So you have to dumb it down to lowest common denominator.

[tank03 1]

When you release something to public you must accept the good with the bad or dont release anything at all!!!

Its life! If you dont like it dont release it. Simple as that.

 

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

 

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

 

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

 

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

 

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

[+NeverEnough 78]

The Cliff Notes version of this thread should read,"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

[HrntFixr 4]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

 

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

 

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

 

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

 

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

 

Couldn't have said it better....

[+Dave 2,319]

The Cliff Notes version of this thread should read,"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

 

No it shouldn't, that is not why we are here. We are not here to be put on a pedestal or anything close to that. We are like minded people with similar interests.

[+Zurawski 33]

Personally I develop my projects and release them to the community with the sole intent of reaping accolades... It's weird fetish I know, but I guess it's better than exposing my genitals to old ladies in the park.

 

Seriously...

 

I imagine most mod developers are like me in the sense that what we do we do as a personal hobby. The nice thing is we typically release many of our mods to the community so they can benefit from the results of our hobby as well. (Read: we are typically thoughtful and generous...)

 

And I'll publicly admit it... I enjoy when a community member thinks enough of my work to offer praise and kudos. It gives me a feeling of gratification knowing that someone finds value in my meager hobbies results.

 

What steams our rice is when a community member goes beyond critique and crosses over into criticism... There really is not a fine line between the two... When you critique you find flaws and politely offer input on how to improve the product. When you criticize you attack the product and person or persons who created it, with no intent to provide valued feedback.

 

Personally the "gimme--gimmes" are a double edge-sword... Initially I find them flattering, in that this person obviously enjoys the product and would enjoy seeing more of it. It starts to rash when the request goes beyond the scope of what the project was ever intended to be.

[HrntFixr 4]

What steams our rice is when a community member goes beyond critique and crosses over into criticism...

 

And that couldn't make it any more clear to understand what this post started as.

 

I wasn't flamming any one person. I talk to and stay in contact with alot of modders and just didn't like what

I was hearing. So this being a open forum I wanted to voice my concerns.

[column5 62]

It's weird fetish I know

 

Woah, there is a fetish you find weird?

[column5 62]

And I'll publicly admit it... I enjoy when a community member thinks enough of my work to offer praise and kudos. It gives me a feeling of gratification knowing that someone finds value in my meager hobbies results.

 

Oh yeah, its great when people give props. I don't want to sound ungrateful. I just mean that the props shouldn't be the raison d'etre.

Edited November 23, 2007 by column5

[Piloto 3]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

 

My reasoning is that, a) this isn't truly a "public" place. It's a community of people with similar interests that depends on the members being sensible and respectful in order for the community to remain vibrant and healthy. We are members, and it's in poor taste and disrespectful to "publicly" call out another member for the work he did in his attempt to contribute to the community. If you don't like it, don't use it, but certainly don't publically chastise the modder or his work. And b) what you call "bad" is usually not constructive, helpful, or delivered in the most respectful terms. Therefore it has no place in this community. As column5 pointed out, feedback with photos or other documentation is acceptable. Unfortunately, most of the negative or "bad" feedback I've read over the years has just been a bunch of conjecture and supposition with no reasonable supportive evidence. It's just a bunch of bitching. That kind of feedback is counter-productive and should have no place in this community.

 

It's unreasoanble to expect a modder to have to "take the bad with the good" in order to contribute his works to the community. I 'd hate to think how many skilled and competent modders withhold their work because they don't wnat to have to deal with the "bad". And they shouldn't have to!

 

This is supposed to be a community; that means we should be supportive of the work being done here, not looking to criticise every little misstep.

 

I don't agree that one has to endure the "bad" as a matter of course simply because he wants to share his stuff. That's just disrespectful.

 

 

Its ok you disagree or this wasnt a forum!

I just dont see it that way, all the way.

I dont like bitching/wining and gimmes all the time but i just dont care. Ignoring is the best way.

As for the modders....its harder to explain different poins off view but quoting neverenough:

 

"Thanks for the countless hours of all the modders, and all their considerable efforts to give us all so much pleasure while expecting so little in return. We are not worthy...."

 

I bet we all know that and thats my felling too (as you dont see me bitching or whining about it, never!) !!

I just think that beeing supportive with backup material to help and make a better work (hey imno modder and i have tons of books!), could help people to improve the overal quality parameters of the mods.

And as most modders take advises the wrong way....maybe thats the problem, in the end.

 

As for the rest...when you release it it becomes public, and everybody discuss it. Here at CA, at C6 or via MSN, Modders users everybody. And sometimes that talks arent toned down as we "respectfully" do here.

Nothing to fo about it, Its just as it is. I dont think its right but i dont condem either its always been that way...unless you moderators make a final closure to it.

[+Dave 2,319]

Oh yeah, its great when people give props. I don't want to sound ungrateful. I just mean that the props shouldn't be the raison d'etre.

 

Agree, we do appreciate and we aren't ungrateful. But its not our reason for being here.

 

@Zur,

 

 

Leave your fetishes out of this.....