Longestpants 1 Posted December 1, 2007 Found this article's issue stuck to the back of one of my old Model Railroaders. It's a pretty interesting article, so I found it on the FJ website. Link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted December 1, 2007 Sure, it is an interesting article, but not exactly something new. Besides, unlike the Kar98s used by the Israeli Army, the "Messerschmidts" weren't even manufactured by the Germans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,879 Posted December 2, 2007 And, you can find an Avia S-199 'Mule' stand-in over at my site!!! (109G10 body used) Wrench kevin stein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted December 2, 2007 Reminds me of Israel rejecting MP-5's, PSG-1 and MSG-90's in favour of improved versions of the Uzi and indigenously modified CAR-15/M16/M4's for the Designated Marksman role, not to mention the purchase of SR25's, M24's and M82 sniper rifles. Israel could use the aid it gets to buy these American weapons as well but could not do it with the German weapons, because to do so was not only an expensive exercise, it also had political implications in view of their origin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted December 3, 2007 Israel could use the aid it gets to buy these American weapons as well but could not do it with the German weapons, because to do so was not only an expensive exercise, it also had political implications in view of their origin. Heh, I would argue that those political implications had very little impact here. The main reason for buying American weapons is what you said first. Israel has in fact no problems in using German military equipment or selling theirs to Germany. (Or where do you think came the Uzis, called MP2, used by the German Army from?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted December 4, 2007 Heh, I would argue that those political implications had very little impact here. The main reason for buying American weapons is what you said first. Israel has in fact no problems in using German military equipment or selling theirs to Germany.(Or where do you think came the Uzis, called MP2, used by the German Army from?) According to www.isayeret.com the Israelis liked the MP5 and PSG1, but don't (atleast officially) have them in their inventory due to the reasons I stated previously, and a third element...Israel Military Industries ie. "Support homegrown company/buy their product instead of foreign products" etc etc. The TAVOR family is one glaring example of this. The Israeli Army has heaps of M4/CAR-15/M16's and can get more for a substantially lower price (US Military Aid) compared to the indigenous TAVOR. I'm not knocking the TAVOR but it is clearly the more expensive family of rifles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted December 5, 2007 I'm not knocking the TAVOR but it is clearly the more expensive family of rifles. It's hard to compare the price of a TAVOR rifle with that of an M16/CAR-15 if the latter one comes bascially for free. One has also to consider that the Israeli military simply can't afford to spend extra money, given the size and technological standard of their equipment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted December 6, 2007 It's hard to compare the price of a TAVOR rifle with that of an M16/CAR-15 if the latter one comes bascially for free. One has also to consider that the Israeli military simply can't afford to spend extra money, given the size and technological standard of their equipment. True. But there is the comparison straight away...it's basically for "free". In view of tight budgets some in the Israeli political sphere, to include former PM Binyamin Netanyahu, are advocating that the Merkava tank production line be shut down, going instead with the US M1 Abrams tank. So far that's not happened. In regards to the TAVOR, IMI is trying to get a US company to produce the rifle to reduce cost by using the aid money. I don't know what the status is with that so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted December 6, 2007 Masher, i heared the TAR-21's were made in the U.S. they were shipped back to the U.S. for repairs and they returned to Israel for further testing and action the Industries in Israel provide thousands of jobs closing them will mean more unemployment... i don't remember any talks about replacing the Merkava tanks with M1A1's or 2's... btw, Israel uses German made submarines (we got some for free) and we do have MP5 or so i've heared (great weapon i might add.. too bad i didn't have any chance yet to shoot with one ^_^) Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted December 6, 2007 i don't remember any talks about replacing the Merkava tanks with M1A1's or 2's... Why would you want to replace the Merkava anyway? It is an amazing tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverbolt 104 Posted December 6, 2007 i don't remember any talks about replacing the Merkava tanks with M1A1's or 2's... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted December 25, 2007 Masher, i heared the TAR-21's were made in the U.S.they were shipped back to the U.S. for repairs and they returned to Israel for further testing and action the Industries in Israel provide thousands of jobs closing them will mean more unemployment... i don't remember any talks about replacing the Merkava tanks with M1A1's or 2's... btw, Israel uses German made submarines (we got some for free) and we do have MP5 or so i've heared (great weapon i might add.. too bad i didn't have any chance yet to shoot with one ^_^) Cheers I have a pretty American lady on my desktop right now holding a Tavor: Angela Barrett I believe her name is...so you might be right! I don't think the context for possible procurement of the Abrams was with the view of replacing the Merkava, tank for tank. The discussion was basically about closing the Merkava production line down/terminating Merkava 4 Production, with the M1 being the natural alternative. And according to Daniel Cohen, the webmaster of www.isayeret.com, the IDF doesn't officially use the MP5, but he did say it was evaluated by Israeli commandos, who said it was superior to the Uzi family of Sub-Machine Guns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted December 25, 2007 1. i want that pic of the lady with the Tavor :D 2. don't believe everything that is in www.isayeret.com and from experince with the Uzi, MP5 is much much better :) i don't think there is any special forces unit (western of course) that don't use the MP5... :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
