Blue Water Operations

[+Typhoid 231]

I made some ASUW strikes awhile back, never worked. My TU22s came in, hit the WPs, rolled out and went home. Well with a few F14s in chase making them smoke and crash.

 

It would be interesting to see what happens with your plan. It is your intent to have ships lods in place of the AAA/SAM and then run SEAD missions against them? So a SAM site would be a carrier and a few DDG/FFG assorted around it?

 

Anyone have a Tico or Arliegh Burke? :)

 

I think at one point that I got an arm equipped flight to engage a radar unit. but I don't know recall how. I'll have to experiment. SEAD might be the ticket but I'll have to experiment over the next few days.

 

the CGN-9 is a pretty good opponent. It does a job on iron-bomb bombers! I have a TU22 mission where they came in, held the missiles and dropped the bombs, with Terriers snapping at their heels......

[Guest capun]

I made some ASUW strikes awhile back, never worked. My TU22s came in, hit the WPs, rolled out and went home. Well with a few F14s in chase making them smoke and crash.

 

It would be interesting to see what happens with your plan. It is your intent to have ships lods in place of the AAA/SAM and then run SEAD missions against them? So a SAM site would be a carrier and a few DDG/FFG assorted around it?

 

Anyone have a Tico or Arliegh Burke? :)

 

There is a Spruance DDG available.

[Guest capun]

I forgot that MKSheppard sent me a CG-47 Ticonderoga a while back, I had it ingame but never completed it and got sidetracked

 

 

2 Phalanx midships

 

 

A Dual Launcher and a 5" In forward

 

 

A RIM-2 Launching

 

 

Missile tracking

 

 

Missile explodes too early

 

[Canadair 16]

@capun: I like the Ticonnderoga

 

@ Saguanay: yes something like that I would like to try.

question is

 

[TargetType114]

Name=CargoShip

FullName=Cargo Ship

TargetType=AAA <----------------------here or in the cargoship data.ini in its folder?

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=750

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=CargoShip

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=50

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=40000.0

DestroyedEffect=MediumFire

SecondaryEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryChance=100

 

This will also make ships labeled as AAA or Sam radar to appear in terrains on AAA positions and sam position, which is not a big deal with a terrain made on purpose for war at sea; obviously will require single install...

Shall we try? maybe bombers will attack with arms..

[Canadair 16]

With an entry such as this one, Tu-16C flight, AI-controlled, launched kent KSR-2 missiles.

Quality amd effectiveness of launches not known and yet unclear, but probably uneffective. Still we had the launches

 

 

[TargetType118]

Name=Yavuz

FullName=Meko Class Escort Frigate

TargetType=aaa<-----------------------------------ship labeled as AAA

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=750

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=yavuz

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=50

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=35000.0

DestroyedEffect=MediumFire

SecondaryEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryChance=100

 

 

This rsult might mean that the objects beahavior and type is ruled by the types.ini before the type declared in the object data.ini. U think it is an intersting finding to be investigated.

Another problem is that now "anti-ship" are sead missions, always two plane formation and not exactly big soviet bombers formations...

Edited January 24, 2008 by Canadair

[Canadair 16]

Ok, you want the attention, you got it. Since you are quoting me, I'll explain. You are the one posting the SCREAMING headlines (in multiple forums) declaring your "discovery" of a SHOWSTOPPING BUG in the game code. Well its not a bug in the code. Very simply, you are expecting the game to do things it wasn't designed to do. As you have discovered there are some work-arounds that have some level of success. There are people here who have a lot of knowledge and insight into the inner workings of this sim who will help if you ask. A lot won't respond to antics like yours. Perhaps a few specific questions without all the DRAMA might serve you better?

 

The whole question is intersting

 

-There are people here who have a lot of knowledge and insight into the inner workings of this sim who will help if you ask.-

 

I know and it is their attention I am trying to get. I got some.

 

-A lot won't respond to antics like yours.-

 

What exactly do you mean with the wrd "antics"? Apparently noone has discussed in public this "problem" with guided weapons, nor I ve found anything yet on forums;I posted on multiple forums, in order to get some visability (from the same knowlegdeable people and work and experiment (as you see I am not complaining but posting solutions and worlkarounds), and yes the problem must have been pretty known to WOE betatestr apparently,, but to the majority?

 

-Perhaps a few specific questions without all the DRAMA might serve you better?-

 

I think I asked detailed questions reported facts, pasted excerpts from actual ini, and discussed, in other threads, realistic projects and not vaporware or mumbling. There is no drama, but surprise for sure, and I am getting to the point. As for "serving" me better, I don't need or request any serving. The idea is spotting problems and mod and have fun as a community.

 

 

-declaring your "discovery" of a SHOWSTOPPING BUG in the game code. Well its not a bug in the code. Very simply, you are expecting the game to do things it wasn't designed to do-

 

It is a showstopping bug. It is a problem, especially in campaign where you have flights armed exclusively with guided munitions, and they are after a target and don't do anything. How this affects a campaign? And besides it is unrealistic and unpleasing to the eye. And basically send back SFP1 modding to everything before guided munitions, what is the point? And this is beyond the rather (I admit) far-fecthed idea of the sea-air war campaign I had. this affects basically all campaigns post-95.

 

Thus saying I like sfp1 series I support it, I support the community, I will buy WOI, and I like learning to mod and new things from the great people in the forum, who in turn I am positive can learn as well, and we can grow togheter as a cmmunity for good air-war fun.

But we can't be ashamd to "blow the whiste" at a problem.

Now, shall we try to work togheter and put animosity aside?

[Canadair 16]

With an entry such as this one, Tu-16C flight, AI-controlled, launched kent KSR-2 missiles.

Quality amd effectiveness of launches not known and yet unclear, but probably uneffective. Still we had the launches

[TargetType118]

Name=Yavuz

FullName=Meko Class Escort Frigate

TargetType=aaa<-----------------------------------ship labeled as AAA

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=750

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=yavuz

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=50

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=35000.0

DestroyedEffect=MediumFire

SecondaryEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryChance=100

This rsult might mean that the objects beahavior and type is ruled by the types.ini before the type declared in the object data.ini. U think it is an intersting finding to be investigated.

Another problem is that now "anti-ship" are sead missions, always two plane formation and not exactly big soviet bombers formations...

 

Actually the ship are labeled AAA in the types.ini, but still as warship or whatever in their data. Besides in the target.ini there are entry such as this one

 

[TargetArea034]

Name=Shipping Route 3

Position=425361.000000,762282.000000

Radius=5657

ActiveYear=0

Location=1

Alignment=FRIENDLY

CarrierStation=False

Target[001].Type=cargoship

Target[001].Offset=920.07,860.34

Target[001].Heading=220

Target[002].Type=Tanker

Target[002].Offset=-920.07,-860.34

Target[002].Heading=220

Target[003].Type=OSAII

Target[003].Offset=-920.07,500.00

Target[003].Heading=220

Target[004].Type=yavuz

Target[004].Offset=920.07,-500.00

Target[004].Heading=220

 

yavuz here is entered as the name "yavuz" it has in tthe types.ini, still the sead flight thinks of it as AAA, as labeled in types.in itself. This is the less invasive way to make it work.

Still leaves the problem of two-planes only formations for sead flights against those disguised ships.

[+Dave 2,322]

As I said, it is a known problem, not a showstopper at all or no one would be still playing it. I am sorry you can't find the threads on it but it has been discussed. So are we going to keep beating a dead horse or move on?

[Canadair 16]

As I said, it is a known problem, not a showstopper at all or no one would be still playing it. I am sorry you can't find the threads on it but it has been discussed. So are we going to keep beating a dead horse or move on?

I moved on; as everybody can see I am already posting .ini excerpts with ideas and suggestions

 

----------I'm suggesting is using a different tactic to get what you want.------------

 

I don't want anything but have fun with the game. Toghter with fellow flight entusuasts

I don't play any game. Tactics I leave for combat-sim purposes

Edited January 24, 2008 by Canadair

[+Dave 2,322]

I moved on; as everybody can see I am already posting .ini excerpts with ideas and suggestions

 

Well maybe we can find a work around. Would be nice if the AI could be beefed up by TK in that regard.

[Canadair 16]

Well maybe we can find a work around. Would be nice if the AI could be beefed up by TK in that regard.

absolutely, that would be the easiest, of course; besides all workarounds I am delaing with are strictly related to air-sea projects, still no LGB against scuds sadly

[Stratos 3,191]

Sorry for hijacking the topic, but is possible to add ships that sot back on single missions?

[Canadair 16]

Sorry for hijacking the topic, but is possible to add ships that sot back on single missions?

 

and in campaign; there are plenty of ships with sams that will make your day miserable

[Stratos 3,191]

I was thinking in a convoy with a couple of destroyers and a couple more of patrol boats, so when you select antishipping, you can attack warships with AAA and no the boring tankers

[Wrench 9,848]

Stratos: yes. Take a look at any of the WW2 maps. They have 'fixed' convoy or surface-action group stations defined. If the ships are equiped with any type of air defenses, they will shoot at you.

 

You just need the 'stations' defined in the targets ini. This is doable for any terrain ... just need the coordintes and lay out the ship formation, make the proper entries in the types and targets inis, and get you ass shot off!!

 

These will NOT be anti-shipping missions, per se, as they are 'fixed in place', just like an airfield. They'll show up in strike missions. Anti-shipping mission ONLY occur along paths, or routes defined in the movement ini.

 

As to LGBs against SCUDs (or any other fixed target), assuming a fixed launch site, I've had no problems getting my flight mates (ok, the wingman - again, the AI coding crops up) to attack with GBU if they are equipped to carry them and have a laser designator loaded I've tested this dozens of times in the desert storm map (still under construction). The F-4E's I've tested this with carry as their base load GBUs and LDs. I've watched them take out SAM sites, AAA, ships, fuel tanks, parked vehicles, tents, camels, Saddam's brothel...whatever target was assgined. Just for s**t's and grins, I even tested it out on an Armed Recon mission, and they sure did drop the GBUs on them moving trucks.

 

I think what we're mostly dealing with, and no slight is intended, is a lack of knowledge on HOW the weapons work, how they're utilized in-game, and how this can be implemented for anti-shipping missions.

 

Has anyone even given the thought of switching the Kents over to EOGR??? This'll give you a stand off range of at least 20kms, based on target size. Obviously, a sampan might not show that far, but the cargo ships and tankers will....and your flightmates, given their natural dumbness, should engage. No more of this wandering around, trying to figure out how to get them to do this or that...EOGRs can be pretty much shot at anything.

 

Give that a try, and let us know your findings

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

(accused of thinking out of the box)

[Guest Saganuay82]

I'm home. I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

[+Typhoid 231]

Stratos: yes. Take a look at any of the WW2 maps. They have 'fixed' convoy or surface-action group stations defined. If the ships are equiped with any type of air defenses, they will shoot at you.

 

You just need the 'stations' defined in the targets ini. This is doable for any terrain ... just need the coordintes and lay out the ship formation, make the proper entries in the types and targets inis, and get you ass shot off!!

 

These will NOT be anti-shipping missions, per se, as they are 'fixed in place', just like an airfield. They'll show up in strike missions. Anti-shipping mission ONLY occur along paths, or routes defined in the movement ini.

 

As to LGBs against SCUDs (or any other fixed target), assuming a fixed launch site, I've had no problems getting my flight mates (ok, the wingman - again, the AI coding crops up) to attack with GBU if they are equipped to carry them and have a laser designator loaded I've tested this dozens of times in the desert storm map (still under construction). The F-4E's I've tested this with carry as their base load GBUs and LDs. I've watched them take out SAM sites, AAA, ships, fuel tanks, parked vehicles, tents, camels, Saddam's brothel...whatever target was assgined. Just for s**t's and grins, I even tested it out on an Armed Recon mission, and they sure did drop the GBUs on them moving trucks.

 

I think what we're mostly dealing with, and no slight is intended, is a lack of knowledge on HOW the weapons work, how they're utilized in-game, and how this can be implemented for anti-shipping missions.

 

Has anyone even given the thought of switching the Kents over to EOGR??? This'll give you a stand off range of at least 20kms, based on target size. Obviously, a sampan might not show that far, but the cargo ships and tankers will....and your flightmates, given their natural dumbness, should engage. No more of this wandering around, trying to figure out how to get them to do this or that...EOGRs can be pretty much shot at anything.

 

Give that a try, and let us know your findings

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

(accused of thinking out of the box)

 

I've tried that with the Kingfisher and had no luck so far. I'm sure its something simple that I've overlooked.....

[+Dave 2,322]

I'm home. I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

 

Glad to see you back and safe.

[Silverbolt 104]

Hey, just a off-topic question!

It wasn't in a Ticondrega class one F-4 Fired a Shirke on it acidentaly?

[Canadair 16]

Stratos: yes. Take a look at any of the WW2 maps. They have 'fixed' convoy or surface-action group stations defined. If the ships are equiped with any type of air defenses, they will shoot at you.

 

You just need the 'stations' defined in the targets ini. This is doable for any terrain ... just need the coordintes and lay out the ship formation, make the proper entries in the types and targets inis, and get you ass shot off!!

 

These will NOT be anti-shipping missions, per se, as they are 'fixed in place', just like an airfield. They'll show up in strike missions. Anti-shipping mission ONLY occur along paths, or routes defined in the movement ini.

 

As to LGBs against SCUDs (or any other fixed target), assuming a fixed launch site, I've had no problems getting my flight mates (ok, the wingman - again, the AI coding crops up) to attack with GBU if they are equipped to carry them and have a laser designator loaded I've tested this dozens of times in the desert storm map (still under construction). The F-4E's I've tested this with carry as their base load GBUs and LDs. I've watched them take out SAM sites, AAA, ships, fuel tanks, parked vehicles, tents, camels, Saddam's brothel...whatever target was assgined. Just for s**t's and grins, I even tested it out on an Armed Recon mission, and they sure did drop the GBUs on them moving trucks.

 

I think what we're mostly dealing with, and no slight is intended, is a lack of knowledge on HOW the weapons work, how they're utilized in-game, and how this can be implemented for anti-shipping missions.

 

Has anyone even given the thought of switching the Kents over to EOGR??? This'll give you a stand off range of at least 20kms, based on target size. Obviously, a sampan might not show that far, but the cargo ships and tankers will....and your flightmates, given their natural dumbness, should engage. No more of this wandering around, trying to figure out how to get them to do this or that...EOGRs can be pretty much shot at anything.

 

Give that a try, and let us know your findings

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

(accused of thinking out of the box)

 

Wrench thanks for your always intersting and knowledgeble posts; thanks to you I got a lot of knowledged about the weaponpack itself, and I have no problem in using guided munitions in MY flight, with th flightmates. of all kind, including lgb, and kent, which hit bautifully as CGRs; the point is having non-player flights usign them.

Anyway for player mssions,, putting the maxvisable distance up does wonders both for airplanes and groundobjects usch as shps; I have 12000 for planes and 40000 for ships

As for being accused of "out of the box thinking", I think I am part of the same club..

 

Thphoid you tried kingfish missiles as eogr in AI non player flights?

Edited January 25, 2008 by Canadair

[Canadair 16]

Known bug for couple years now.

Is it a bug, or not? Not my words.Not that it changes anything for the huge value and fun of SFP1 series...

 

anyway:baltika, defintely a knowledgeble campaign designer, pointed me to a problem with this:http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4868

 

I investigated and tested after his post.. and..

 

 

And I am quite positive the problem is not the number of the cargo_ship flagged objecs, but their nations; not only they are to be cargoship, but they have to be : NationName=generic in their data.iniI have now anti-ship mission in campaigns, but I don't know yet if flights will deliver guided weapons. nor if such missions will be assigned to ai-flights;

 

@saguanay; any hope for the water terrain?

 

To everyone: thanks for renaming the thread, perhaps caps were excessive

Edited January 25, 2008 by Canadair

[Guest Saganuay82]

Check PM.

[Guest Saganuay82]

Check your mail.

[Canadair 16]

Check your mail.

 

Saguanay, I hate to bother; can I have a version with sfp1 tiles?

Thanks, my mistake, I should have told you

[Guest Saganuay82]

Yep. Probably tomorrow.