flabbergasted

[+peter01 2]

My MSFF2 just packed it in. 7 years of intensive flying, they made them pretty well. i've put in a couple of eBay orders, one as a spare, so hopefully I'll have one till 2020 - they don't make them anymore.

 

Now this is going to sound naive... and I guess it is.

 

Tried a Saitek X52 (not FF) I bought a while ago, and got a huge shock flying planes in FE. You don't get that "feel". Its completely different.

 

Tried all of TKs, all just so different.

 

Then tried out various versions of FMs I have done of the same plane, and couldn't tell any difference, other than turn, climb, roll etc. But I don't usually change those things much after initial version, its the way the plane feels that is tweaked, not just with the EP, previous version too, and to me at least with FF, the different versions can be like chalk and cheese.

 

Its pretty hard to explain if you haven't used a good FF stick.

 

Then flew IL2, and although its quite different using a non-FF stick, it ain't so bad, if I really had to I could get used to it, as the planes are more bland/smooth in terms of feel. The only major difference are the gun vibrations.

 

I'm assuming most have a non FF joystick?

 

Do some of you have FF sticks?

 

Am I missing something here, or with the game?

Edited February 8, 2008 by peter01

[+gterl 1,213]

hi peter01,

 

no not naive....not at all (seriously).

 

Personaly I'm still stucked with my Thrustmaster TopGun Afterburner II (and CHPro Pedals). I know it does not have all the bells & whistles of a X52, but it's rugged and does it's job. .....AND has FFB! At the beginning I tought it's just a gimmick, but after a while, with a bit of 'tuning' it's rather fun feeling the rumble/shaking when you press the trigger for the MG or even more shaking when you press the other button for the guns (like in a BF109 in IL2).

 

Concerning the flying feeling......like stalls, etc. well my experience is rather mixed....it basically depends on the used game (IL2, FSX, FS9, FE, BOBII, BOB, etc.) a couple of them are doing it better than others....

 

rgds

gt

[JediMaster 451]

I tried an FFB joystick about 10 years ago, but I never went with it. I've used HOTAS since I got my FLCS and TQS in 1994 and never looked back. Now I have a Cougar, but using the same RCS as I had back then. HOTAS forever!

[+Brainless 1]

My MSFF2 just packed it in. 7 years of intensive flying, they made them pretty well. i've put in a couple of eBay orders, one as a spare, so hopefully I'll have one till 2020 - they don't make them anymore.

 

Now this is going to sound naive... and I guess it is.

 

Tried a Saitek X52 (not FF) I bought a while ago, and got a huge shock flying planes in FE. You don't get that "feel". Its completely different.

 

Tried all of TKs, all just so different.

 

Then tried out various versions of FMs I have done of the same plane, and couldn't tell any difference, other than turn, climb, roll etc. But I don't usually change those things much after initial version, its the way the plane feels that is tweaked, not just with the EP, previous version too, and to me at least with FF, the different versions can be like chalk and cheese.

 

Its pretty hard to explain if you haven't used a good FF stick.

 

Then flew IL2, and although its quite different using a non-FF stick, it ain't so bad, if I really had to I could get used to it, as the planes are more bland/smooth in terms of feel. The only major difference are the gun vibrations.

 

I'm assuming most have a non FF joystick?

 

Do some of you have FF sticks?

 

Am I missing something here, or with the game?

 

Well I use a Logitech Force 3D Pro and it's almost as good as my old MS FF2. I tried the Saitek ones but they kept packing up after a couple of weeks. Had three of the damned things and every time they stopped working I sent them back for replacement but this got tiresome plus I was without a stick waiting for the replacements. I've had the Logitech for a year now with no problems..touch wood and whistle.. so I would recommend it although it's probably not the 'coolest' one around.

 

I tried the Logitech none FF but like you just missed the 'feel'. You really need it with BOBII and it's adjustable and versatile.

[sparkomatic 7]

MSFF2...what is that? I used to rely on ThrustMaster, then switched to a Saitek X45...bee's knees ! Looks ugly, fights furiously, loyal to a fault...man's best friend

 

A Cougar? J/M...see that government contracting is where the money is, eh?

[BUFF 8]

It seems that the main proponents for FF sticks mainly fly props whereas jet jockeys don't really care.

Of course most jet jockeys are probably looking for more switch/programming options than most FF sticks offer so maybe it's catch 22.

[WarlordATF 1]

Its kinda funny, I have a Logitech Force 3D, a X52, and a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and when it comes to Thirdwires Flight Sims i always use the Extreme 3D Pro.

 

The Force 3D has a sloppy center and even with setting the centering force all the way up it still feels loose and inaccurate. The X52 is ok for Falcon 4.0, but with WOE there isnt enough resistance, It returns to center ok but it just feels to easy to sling that stick around,seems like i'm always doing barrel rolls when i use it.they should have put stronger springs in the X52, I think the X52 Pro has better springs.

 

I've used alot of Logitech products over the years and 90% of the time i got my moneys worth.The X3D Pro has 12 buttons,Twist Rudder,Throttle and a single Hat Switch.The bad thing about the Extreme 3D Pro is the Twist Rudder soon wears out and acts erratic so you have to adjust the rudder dead zone real high. But It feels right for the Sim and its a cheap joystick, about $40-$50 at best buy. I'll buy another when this one dies, keeping the old one for parts should make the next ones lifespan longer.

 

One of the best Joysticks i ever owned was a CH Janes Combat Stick, Outlasted 3 Computers,Kept a tight deadzone and i missed the X and Y trim Adjustments! I used it until USB replaced gameports and i bet it still works. I bought it for Fighters Anthology and it got alot of use with the original Falcon 4.0, just couldnt kill it, real quality.

[Tooner 0]

Hello gentlemen,

 

For Il-2:1946 I use the Saitek X52 but when I started on First Eagles I put it aside for a Logitech Freedom 2.4 The Saitek just didn't have the right 'feel', it was like stirring in hot air.

 

Regards,

Tooner

[+Tailspin 3]

Never tried FF. Been using a Logitech Ext. 3D Pro for a couple of years. Just lost the rear quadrant of the hat and 3 buttons. Quit working exactly 2 months after the Circuit City 2 year full replacement warranty expired. For 42 bucks I'll probably buy another.

[+peter01 2]

well thanks guys, I'm glad I posted

 

had been wondering why anybody would even play FE without FFB, but obviously, theres more to it than that... "joysticks ain't joysticks"

 

some of the replies explain why I was so surprised.....

 

Hello gentlemen,

 

For Il-2:1946 I use the Saitek X52 but when I started on First Eagles I put it aside for a Logitech Freedom 2.4 The Saitek just didn't have the right 'feel', it was like stirring in hot air.

 

Regards,

Tooner

 

"stirring in hot air" is about as an accurate description to describe what I experienced as could be possible. Also glad you mention Il2 - it does seem okay with this stick in comparison.

 

The X52 is ok for Falcon 4.0, but with WOE there isnt enough resistance, It returns to center ok but it just feels to easy to sling that stick around,seems like i'm always doing barrel rolls when i use it.they should have put stronger springs in the X52, I think the X52 Pro has better springs.

 

Yep, obviously the x52 isn't so good for some games. it doesn't have enough resistance as you say

 

It seems that the main proponents for FF sticks mainly fly props whereas jet jockeys don't really care.

Of course most jet jockeys are probably looking for more switch/programming options than most FF sticks offer so maybe it's catch 22.

 

Actually I bought and use the X52 as a second control - it has a lot of buttons. So use this for things like autopilot, level flight map, acceleration, waypoints, reloads etc etc (even editing commands like copy, paste ) while main flying controls are on MSFF2. Have TiR too..bit spoilt I guess. Only trouble is with all these controls I can hardly get to the keyboard!

 

Do want to say tho...if possible get a MSFF2 - its great in all flight sims, but especially the prop ones. Only prob is limited buttons.

 

Maybe someone should collate recommended joysticks for FE - really it was so different for me (admittedly, I hardly use non-FFB sticks), but it seems others have experienced this as well. I would have deleted FE from my computer within a day of purchasing it if I had been using the X52 at that time.

Edited February 8, 2008 by peter01

[Bandy 3]

I started out with FE and an affordable Saitek AV8R with LOADS of buttons and switches and really enjoyed it till the trigger stopped working, then I shifted to space bar for firing because most (all?) WWI sticks didn't have a trigger anyways. It was immersive (if that isn't too cliched).

 

Then a friend literally gave me a nearly new Logitech Strikeforce 3D with force feedback, and I haven't looked back. I miss all the mapped switches from the AV8R, but the FF definitely gives flight simming an edge.

 

Since FE I've bought SF (mostly for KAW and BoB a la Baltika, thanks!) and WoV, but I certainly did notice that FF is not much of a factor at higher airspeeds. Perhaps once TK implements the new FM variables into his jet sims things might change, though I guess you're not supposed to stall fight with jets, eh?!?

[+peter01 2]

but I certainly did notice that FF is not much of a factor at higher airspeeds

 

I think thats a good point. Plus, it seems some sticks are way better than others. The x52 for example probably isn't that good.

Edited February 9, 2008 by peter01

[+p10ppy 2]

Hmmm I had no idea FF was so popular (never tried it) seems like I’m missing out

 

I miss using my old Thrustmaster FLCS / throttle combo

Its was crotchety and awkward to program but had a beautiful feel to it

Haven’t had a comp with a gameport for a long while now though

 

Use a Thrustmaster Topgun Fox 2pro now, which is an ok stick (never been enthralled by it) Very reliable though (its probably 8-10 years old)

 

Always meant to rip the guts out of the FLCS and replacing it with a USB controller …. Maybe I should look at FFing it at the same time

 

How many of you use/recommend pedals?

[+peter01 2]

I have pedals and like them - together with a good joystick, sound, TiR it makes the world of difference, feels like flying rather than playing a game on the computer.

 

Problem with pedals however is that I have a comfortable computer chair that has rollers, and you need to be fairly stable as the pedals require both feet naturally and some pressure to use. End result is I move around a bit, so don't use them as much as I'd like. Tradeoff between chair and pedals.

 

This may be just the pedals I have, and of course the mobile chair!

 

So in the scheme of things this wouldn't be my top priority. A good FF stick is easily top tho.

 

Perhaps others have views.........

Edited February 9, 2008 by peter01

[Bandy 3]

TrackIR is TOP on my list. I'd fly using a broomstick before I gave TIR up...

 

Edit: well maybe not...

Edited February 9, 2008 by B Bandy RFC