USS Kitty Hawk for the Indian Navy?

[JediMaster 451]

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable snowjob to me. Since when did Russia become the used car salesman of the arms exporting world?

[+ghostrider883 526]

 

Will it is be ready in 2012? I don't think so......All it has is "Vikramaditya"(in Hindi) chalked on in the first pic.

[echoco 0]

Under all that scaffold is probably a fine ship, I wish I could suggest they buy off the extreamly active thai carrier but I don't think it can handle anything except helo, Harriers and JSF.

 

The US could give the Kitty Hawk to JMSDF hahaha undo the balance of power there a bit if the Japanese constitution allows for it.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Under all that scaffold is probably a fine ship, I wish I could suggest they buy off the extreamly active thai carrier but I don't think it can handle anything except helo, Harriers and JSF.

 

Only problem with the Chakri Naruebet is that it's even smaller than the Spanish and Italian carriers.

 

Here's a shot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HTMS_Chakri_Naruebet.jpg

 

 

Hey Ghost, sounds like you guys are on the verge of getting screwed. Are they making the navy pay for the rust too? When are the Vikrants coming online? Weren't they supposed to be before the Gork?

[+EricJ 4,210]

I read on Alert 5 that the Super Hornet + Kitty Hawk deal is just wild speculation, matter of fact, here's the article:

 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/storypage/st...ia+for+jet+deal

 

Sure Boeing will push it but it's not part of the overall deal and not the carrot with the stick. Totally seperate deals.

[+ghostrider883 526]

Hey Ghost, sounds like you guys are on the verge of getting screwed. Are they making the navy pay for the rust too? When are the Vikrants coming online? Weren't they supposed to be before the Gork?

 

Yeah, the officials go and enjoy the russian hospitality & vodka, while the Navy gets screwed . Blindly agreeing to what the Russkies is madness!!!!!!

The Vikrant is supposed to be ready for sea trials by 2012. Funny that Gorky will also be ready by then.

Only bright spot is that RAC MiG annnouced that the MiG-29K/KUBs will be delivered as per schedule in June this year. The pilots will get to practice Short take offs and landings at one of the NASs before the carrier arrives .

 

Vikramaditya to be ready by 2010, India offers manpower support

Sandeep Unnithan

New Delhi, February 27, 2008

 

A resolution of the Russian logjam seems to be in sight with the refit of the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov ) to be completed in the next two years. This new deadline follows a five-day visit to Russia by a delegation led by Indian defence secretary Vijay Singh which concluded on February 24.

 

In what could be a first, India has offered to send 500 workers from its shipyards to Sevmash, the Arctic shipyard, where the carrier is currently being refitted. This comes after the Russian side said that it needed a manpower boost if the warship was to be completed in time.

 

Relations between India and Russia hit a new low last year after the Russia demanded a renegotiation of the 2004 deal and estimated a four-year delay in the delivery of the 44,000 tonne aircraft carrier. As per the original contract, India was to receive the aircraft carrier in August this year.

 

The carrier will now go into sea trials lasting 18-months after completing the refit in late 2010. The Russian side told defence secretary Vijay Singh that the refurbishment of the carrier was the highest priority for them and that they were really embarrassed about the delay. <Show them the moolah and the threats turn into apologies >

 

India has agreed to pay more for the refit of the carrier. The amount is yet to be calculated but is said to be twice the earlier estimate of $ 750 million. A naval team lead by Vice Admiral Deshpande is to shortly visit the carrier and the entire technical process of finalizing the revised costs will be completed by the end of March.

 

Russian officials said they did not want the aircraft carrier but wanted a reaffirmation of the fact that India wanted it. India’s only aircraft carrier the INS Viraat will be phased out in 2015. Indian MoD officials said that a ship of the size of the Gorshkov would cost at least $ 4 billion (R 16,000 crore).

 

The renegotiation marks a major climb-down from the navy’s earlier stance of not paying more for the aircraft carrier Gorshkov and has ruled out renegotiations. “Paying more will set a bad precedent,” navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta said in December last year.

 

India bought the 44,000 tonne ex-Soviet aircraft carrier in 2004 after nearly a decade of negotiations. As per the contract, Russia gifted India the hulk, but India had to pay for its five-year refit estimated at $ 750 million. India also agrees to buy a squadron of MiG-29s and Ka-28 and Ka-31 helicopters to fly off the carrier for another $ 750 million.

 

Early last year, officials at the Russian shipyard Sevmash said that they would be unable to meet the 2008 delivery date. This was because they had planned to replace only some of the ship's wiring and later discovered that its Soviet-era fireproof insulation could not be cracked open without damaging the rest of the wiring. Hence, the entire ship has to be rewired with several kilometers of new wiring, pushing up costs.

 

Lack of financing and poor project management was stated as other reasons for the delay. Adding to this is the shortage of personnel. Sevmash has diverted nearly 1000 of the 1300 workers from the Gorshkov to building a series of Borey class ballistic missile submarines for the Russian navy.

 

By this time, India has already paid up nearly 80 per cent of the $ 1.5 billion deal. Late last year, Russia demanded $ 1 billion from India for the refit. Russian officials base their new calculation on the premise that the not only was the deal valued on 2004 dollar prices but the original estimate of $ 700 million dollars was three times less than what it should have been.

 

The Vikramaditya will last the navy another 30 years or at least until 2040. It will be supplanted by two other 38,000 tonne Indigenous Aircraft Carriers being built at the Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL).

 

In a related development, One of the upgraded Indian Kilo class class submarines is stuck in Russia, The Navy has refused ot accept it because its weapons failed to hit targets during trials.

Edited February 28, 2008 by ghostrider883

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

Nice pile 'o' rust. Good luck India! Seriously, just plonking on some arresters(?) and some sort of ski jump...........

 

Glad I'm not buying it.

[Atreides 144]

Well in the Indian's defence, Russian and later on the U.K are the only truly reliable defence equipment supplier's. If the Indian's were to go the U.S route ( which hopefully they NEVER will) they would be at the mercy of the current administration. Repub's and Demo's have both been a double edged sword for the Indian's. Nixon and Regan were both moronically Anti-Indian and some Demo's were too. Bush in the post 9/11 era has realised or rather has been advised that in the region India is the most moderate country, due in no small part to the fact that it is a country with a Hindu majority, the only reason the Indian's hesistate to turn to the U.S is the shifting doctrine with regard's to the balance of power. The russkie's might be ripping the Indian's off but, the Indian's know that there won't be any sanction's placed on them by the Russian's if they were to go to war with either Pakistan or China ( you guy's think the U.S would not impose sanction's if the Indian's were to go to war with either countrie's ? ).

Edited February 28, 2008 by Atreides

[+SidDogg 130]

HAHAH i know rite?

 

[NOW NOW NOW stop blowing up each other we need ur money ]

[Atreides 144]

Heck the Indian's should use that rust bucket in the pic's for target pratice for their MIG-29K's and then sell them(MIG-29K) to Mynamar, just so that Rambo can make another crap movie like the one he did (glad I stole that movie, worst premise...ever) and then the sequel feature's RAMmoron taking on the entire MIG-29K force.

[ironroad 218]

Russian companies (with government backing) are notorious for changing the terms of deals, after the deals have been made. During the 1990s, when Russia was trying to adopt Western style capitalism, a lot of the Western firms that went into Russia left as quickly as they came in. They found the Russia take capitalism to be completely different from standards they practiced.

 

Well if the Indians get upset, they can always take it to a Russian court...

[Atreides 144]

Dont think the Indian's could afford the amount of vodka required to bribe the judge's and govt in court..that is.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Atreides

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Nice pile 'o' rust. Good luck India! Seriously, just plonking on some arresters(?) and some sort of ski jump...........

Glad I'm not buying it.

 

That's prolly why you aren't in Naval acquisitions. It's a good platform, large, relatively fast, copeous space in the hanger bays and more importantly, built. True, it won't be (technically speaking) as good as a newbuild ship, but it seemed like a bargain at the time. I mean the sale of a carrier, to be rebuilt, refitted and modernised and all you had to pay for were the fighters you intended to use onboard... what more could you want?? At the time it was a buyer's market. But now Russia's realising that maybe the 'sweetener' for the Mig-29Ks was a little too sweet. And you know how touchy they've been about being exploited since the end of the USSR.

 

Anyways, I got the impression that the Gorky was just a stop gap until the Vikrant class ships come online. These will be more advanced and more importantly, tailored specifically to India's needs, not augmented from something else.