racinglad 0 Posted March 21, 2008 Anybody can steer me to some good tactics on the MiG-21!? I find it hard to sustain myself while in the face of the enemy... Usually I engage in a turning fight to which to my surprise is a big no-no. Bleeds of excesive energy with each turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted March 21, 2008 Yeah, don't ever fly the Mig-21....period. You will die. Thus why we are called the world's largest distributor of Mig parts. In all seriousness the 21 is a slash and bash fighter. You don't want to try and get into a turning fight with it unless you are really well versed on its strengths and weakness. i.e. know its corner speed, what's it vertical speed it. When is it best to extend and escape. (Knowing when to bug out.) The Mig-21 is a good fighter, its was not a great fighter, as history will attest too. Most countries used it because it was cheap. But in the face of US equipment, it ended up on the short end of the stick, time and time again. The life expectancy of a Mig-21 pilot had to be really short. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Bounder Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) If ya find bombers without escorts nail um from the rear. If ya have fighters to fight maintain good turn speed or your toast.Use missiles 3mile or shorter,and guns up close. Have your wing covering you , but do depend on him (they tend to get distracted easy) check your six often,if anything gets on your six run. Dont be afraid to use the M key of you see any red AC within missile range go defensive fast. Edited March 21, 2008 by Bounder Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kukulino 1 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Want contibute too 1) distinguish which era you fly: In WOV Rolling thunder you haven't got big problems I think (but this do not mean no problems). You can fight and win. In later LinebackerI and LinebackerII it is harder (F-4 use AIM-7E). In Johan217s Middeast wars campaign I had problems. Phantoms with AIM-7E/E-2 can lock me on relatively long distance (in comparation to RS-2US or IR R-3S missiles). The same to Iran vs Iraq campaign (F-4E with AIM-7E-2, AIM-9J). You have just manouer to shake fired missile. No chaffs, no flares (the same to your oponents). Suicide is WOE Red Lightning (on hard settings). You have no or little chance survive. Doesn't matter which plane is your opponent. Your real oponent is AIM-9L (F-15 carry AIM-7F too). On the other hand F-15 is big league for Mig-21MF. 2) distinguish which Mig-21 version you actually use in mission: we have modelled and modded many Mig-21 versions: F, F-13, PF, PFM, R, S, UM, MF, Bis (WOI) (another versions are WIPs). This versions using different flight models. Not stock only. Try PM to Fubar512 or to Gerard14. They updated FMs for many versions. They can send you link to download them or send you FMs, I hope. They will be willing, I suppose. Or try search in download section. But no all FM are there. 3) A2A missiles: this is a little bit problem :yes: : Standardly were used IR R-3S, R-13M and later R-60. Standard radar guided missile for Mig-21 in Czechoslovakia was RS-2US. Well no good chances to kill. R-60 were carried on Mig-21MF much later, between 1990-2000 (in Czechoslovakia). Need practise if you want hit and kill anything with R-3S/R-13M. If your oponent is equiped with faffs/chlares... You have still your cannon 4) faffs/chlares: this is Mig-21 pain... Yes, later versions were equiped with dispensers, but for us, which fly WOV/WOE it is not actually. Czechoslovak Mig-21F-13/PF/PFM/R/MA/MF were not equiped with dispensers. Missiles can hit you everywhere from every positions (all aspect capability) in later campaigns. There will be little upgrade. With Gerard14 we are working on Mig-21MA version, which can carry SM SPS-141 container with faffs/chlares. Still WIP. Some little probs on the way we had. Link: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...S-141+container Or try Starfighter2s Mig-21R with recon container equiped with dispenser: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6114 Well, Mig-21 is old but still alive Star But not equivalent oponent for newer fighter generations. I mean older versions from F to MF. Bis and another newer modifications are much better than previous "21" versons. I love it. It is real legend on aviation heaven. Migs forever :fans: PS: you can still use Su-27 Or wait for Mirage factory Mig-29A Or wait for another Mig-21 WIPs Edited March 21, 2008 by kukulino Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 Listen.... Pilot is more important then machine itself - always be. Fact is that MiG-21 is still in use in Europe and in rest of the world - most of the MiG-23's are not - even many MiG-29A are already scraped. That tells much for quality of that airplane (later modifications). And both views about this matter are correct - in some way - MiG is technicaly and regarding weapons long way behind Western conterparts - but performed quite well in some battlegrounds. At the end - legendary airplane - true "Eastern Starfighter". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Listen....Pilot is more important then machine itself - always be. Fact is that MiG-21 is still in use in Europe and in rest of the world - most of the MiG-23's are not - even many MiG-29A are already scraped. That tells much for quality of that airplane (later modifications). And both views about this matter are correct - in some way - MiG is technicaly and regarding weapons long way behind Western conterparts - but performed quite well in some battlegrounds. At the end - legendary airplane - true "Eastern Starfighter". Well said. Right on point. How do you think the Flying Tigers of WWII fame flew the P-40 and consistantly waxed the Japs. They knew the strengths of their machine and developed disciplined tactics to exploit those strengths and minimize their aircraft's weaknesses. They chose their fights carefully, fought their fight their way, and stayed away from fighting the opponent's fight. A point interceptor is tasked to make dirt movers bust their tactics up and can accomplish the intercept mission without firing a shot! The North Vietnamese did it every day against strike packages. The MiG-21 of whatever flavor has all that it needs to do some things well. WoE is turf where the objective is to avoid all of the missiles, but the argument remains the same. Do what you and your aircraft do well and don't play in any other arena. There are no prizes for second place! Edited March 21, 2008 by Jug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kukulino 1 Posted March 21, 2008 Listen....Pilot is more important then machine itself - always be. Fact is that MiG-21 is still in use in Europe and in rest of the world - most of the MiG-23's are not - even many MiG-29A are already scraped. That tells much for quality of that airplane (later modifications). And both views about this matter are correct - in some way - MiG is technicaly and regarding weapons long way behind Western conterparts - but performed quite well in some battlegrounds. At the end - legendary airplane - true "Eastern Starfighter". I totally agree To racinglad: it is not big problem fly with F-15/16/18 in WOE. It is speed, fun, boooms, exciting etc. Try Mig (You tried I know )!!! And you will see where is your range :yes: Use fully Paladrians cockpits for Mig-21 series with their RWR!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted March 21, 2008 MiG-21 rocks, especially Mirage Factory MIG-21F-13 in early 60's now in WOI where that early crap Sparrow's are not Godlike MiG-21 "likes" tight close-in dogfights, but as soon as you see F-4's going full burner do the same....but in opposite direction Anyway, one can handle anything from the 60's, even early 70's with this baby, but later on the things get much tougher...as they should... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miya_Sama 0 Posted March 21, 2008 One cannot forget that in the games the MiG-21 can seemingly out turn an F-16 but such would not be the case. The game "cheats" in order to make it more "challenging" for you. Personally I would prefer it to not do that. It is disappointing to fly against the AI MiG-21 and watch it pull away again and again (in full re-heat nonetheless) though when you fly it for yourself the situation is completely reversed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted March 21, 2008 You are getting out turned by MiG-21 in F-16??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+The Trooper 104 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) ... Fact is that MiG-21 is still in use in Europe and in rest of the world - most of the MiG-23's are not - even many MiG-29A are already scraped. That tells much for quality of that airplane (later modifications)... I don't think they are doing this because of the 21 being better than the 23 or 29. It's just cheaper to maintain and MiG-23 is a mainterance hell (as most VG planes are). Some went even further in their stupidity throwing a lot of money upgrading the 40+ year old airframe with modern avionics and fancy color MFDs. And they've even done this without a licence from the original manufacturer. How many LanceRs have the Romanians lost in incidents? 15,16? Edited March 21, 2008 by The Trooper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 I don't think they are doing this because of the 21 being better than the 23 or 29. It's just cheaper to maintain and MiG-23 is a mainterance hell (as most VG planes are). Some went even further in their stupidity throwing a lot of money upgrading the 40+ year old airframe with modern avionics and fancy color MFDs. And they've even done this without a licence from the original manufacturer. How many LanceRs have the Romanians lost in incidents? 15,16? Definately not better then 23 and 29. Upgradeing 21's is not stupid - matter of economy - maintain for MiG-21Bis and cost per flight hour are 5 times less then 29's and 3 times less then 23's. MiG-21 belong to history - just in service until 2011 or so - that's the "deadline" for most of the existing airframes. Romanians and Indian AF make mistake useing old airframe for attack missions - same reason for many Starfighters loss. When you put bombs on plane with small wings and fly low and fast you will get disaster especialy with Europe mostly bad weather. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) BTW - I flyed on MiG-21UM on front seat couple of times - great plane - true legend. Feeling is comparable with haveing sex with most hansome girl. (if she like to talk dirty to you when things get hoter) Edited March 21, 2008 by starfighter2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted March 21, 2008 BTW - I flyed on MiG-21UM on front seat couple of times - great plane - true legend. Feeling is comparable with haveing sex with most hansome girl. (if she like to talk dirty to you when things get hoter) Hehe, ne sumnjam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 hehe indeed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+The Trooper 104 Posted March 21, 2008 Romanians and Indian AF make mistake useing old airframe for attack missions Exactly! But I don't think they got it very cheap with the LanceR. It's not very practical to make such a complex upgrade just for filling the gaps until a new airplane is available, especially when you don't heve a lot of money. Lesser upgrade like the Croatians did is a lot more practical IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted March 21, 2008 What CAF did with it's MiG's was barely an upgrade lol, it just got new GPS, communication devices and stuff like that merely to enable them for joint practice with NATO(USAF/USN) forces, other than that is't just plain ol' bis We are picking new plane this year :yes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+The Trooper 104 Posted March 21, 2008 What CAF did with it's MiG's was barely an upgrade lol, it just got new GPS, communication devices and stuff like that merely to enable them for joint practice with NATO(USAF/USN) forces, other than that is't just plain ol' bis We are picking new plane this year :yes: And I suppose you are happy that your governments is not wasting any money that came from your taxes on pointless upgrades. BTW do you know what the new plane will be? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) I think F-16A for Croatian AF ..and Trooper - it's not waste of money. BTW - combat effectivness of MiG-21 today is well illustrated with fact that USAF did not targeted Serbian MiG-21's on ground - 'case they knew what "danger" they are really. This plane is deep in my heart whatever. Edited March 21, 2008 by starfighter2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+The Trooper 104 Posted March 21, 2008 I think F-16A for Croatian AF The worst solution even if it is for free IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Piecemeal 450 Posted March 21, 2008 The worst solution even if it is for free IMHO. Do you really think so?! At least these lads won't have a propellor driven Air Force like the excuse for one that we have in Ireland........I hang my head in shame at our government Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Romanians and Indian AF make mistake useing old airframe for attack missions Eventhough the Bison can carry guided weapons that the SU-30 carries, the Bisons will most proably be involved in CAP and defensive strike missions. In an event of war, they most certianly won't be given the role of going in and bombing Pakistani airbases and other installations. The offensive strike role will be taken care of by upgraded MiG-27s and Jaguars and Su-30MKIs. The Bison upgrade was done to make the MiG-21bis survive in today's hostile EW environment, besides there was no way to repalce so many Bis airframes in a short period of time. There were upto 8-10 MiG-21bis sqdns in the IAF at one time. I agree with your "true Eastern Starfighter" comment ...as the "real" Starfighters found out in December 1971 over Western India . Edited March 21, 2008 by ghostrider883 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted March 21, 2008 The worst solution even if it is for free IMHO. Your joking right? Do you think that a (no offence to any Croations here) poorer nation can afford newer models? They are probably former USAF Vipers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted March 21, 2008 http://www.f-16.net/news_article2611.html One of the solutions... Other one is Gripen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+The Trooper 104 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Yes, because this will tie them to Lockheed. And if they accept the offer, guess what will their next aircraft be - F16C. And even if it is not a bad kite, it is at the end of its service life. Simply there is not much space for improvement. They would go better with something of a new generation like the EF-2000, Gripen or even the Super Bug Edited March 21, 2008 by The Trooper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
