Making a pseudo F-4C/D

[mppd]

Well, this is a start towards making a more correct F-4C/D (well, sort of..) from the WOV F-4B, which has the only correct 3- piece leading edge flaps. I created wing bulges and nose RHAW housings for the F-4C and D. Yes, I know, the main gear tires will still be incorrect and the underside of the wings are not quite correct, but this will look closer to my idea of a C/D than what we have.

Mike D.

[kukulino]

Nice! Details makes planes much nicer

[Vader2]

Cool!

[Talos]

Looking good there!

 

Wasn't the F-4B model leaked accidentally and then allowed to be used by TK? I thought a lot of the MF Phantoms were based on it. You could use that to make a very accurate F-4C/D then.

[Bounder]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

[mppd]

I know very little about the history of the SFP1/WOV 3D models! I was hoping that the Mirage Factory would release correct F-4C/D models as the ones already released look great, but I was told not to hold my breath for them anytime soon.

 

And, there is also rumor of another early F-4 version floating around. I tried to stir up some interest with those who already know how to do this, but no one else seems to have very much interest in this except me, so I jumped in to start to figure out the 3D-aspects for myself. I'm an illustrator not a 3D-modeler.

 

Learning the 3D stuff is not easy for the beginner, and NGHENGO has been helping me figure out all that I'm doing wrong. Whoever has the original source files for these is not sharing them, I can tell you that...

 

 

Mike D.

[+Dave]

What is wrong with the current F-4C/D?

[mppd]

The wing leading edge flaps as depicted on the F-4C and D are incorrect as the sim presents them, the inboard flap is fixed in place (as on the F-4E). The 3-piece L.E. flaps are correct on the F-4B visual model however and should be the same for the C and D also.

 

The bump under the F-4D radome also is of the very late type (80s) and looked different for the service life of the D model while it flew in Vietnam. If anyone can beg, borrow or steal the original 3dSMax file for the F-4B and can add the changes required to look like a USAF C/D, or obtain the C/D files and fix the inboard flap to move as per the F-4B, I for one will be VERY appreciative....!

 

Mike

Edited June 26, 2008 by mppd

[+Crab_02]

the D nose dealio should be more rounded off on the bottom.

how are you going to get the underwing and gear doors to work?

[mppd]

Not a chance, I can live with the underside and gear doors flat as a board. I was living with the upper wing bulges missing until I started this 3D stuff... Agree with you about the RHAW housing bulge shape, I took a bunch of measurements and close-up photos of the D at the Bradley Air Museum, but as a beginner am having trouble getting the subtle shapes correct. Anyone want to step in here and show the new kid how its done, O.K. with me...??

[Toryu]

mppd, is there any chance for a clean-nosed D-model?

 

I've always liked the looks of it :yes:

[mppd]

mppd, is there any chance for a clean-nosed D-model?

 

Isn't there one available for the original Iran-Iraq campaign? If not available here, was it at AVSIM? Can someone help with this??

 

Mike

[Toryu]

There is one indeed.

 

But since I'm sitting behind a low connection, I'd rather just DL the a/c and not the entire campaign.

 

Is there any way to upload the a/c as a "stand-alone"?

[+FastCargo]

Not a chance, I can live with the underside and gear doors flat as a board.

 

What exactly is different about the doors? If it's something that just needs to be thickened (ie you could add something to the doors) you CAN do it...it's a pain and takes lots of trial and error...but it is possible without access to the F-4 3ds max model.

 

FastCargo

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

What kind of adding is it?! like a weaponstation?! or the adding Pilot procedure?!

[+FastCargo]

This thread for an example:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...0vark&st=15

 

FastCargo

[mppd]

The bulged wing to accomodate the increased thickness main gear tires is visible on the upper wing, and also on the bottom wing. When the gear is retracted, the underside of the wing shows increased thickness starting in the gear doors and extending aft into the speed brakes under the wings. This is all pretty minor in my opinion - it can be simulated by textures. Even the upper wing bulge is not that apparent - and I'm not sure that I can match my textures with a new texture for those parts. That leaves really the nose differences. I was planning to add them via the pilot-technique in the data.ini that we used for the LORAN antenna.

 

All of this is a round-about way of working around the correct L.E. flap movement of the F-4B. Wish we could petition TK to simply fix the F-4C and D .LOD to have the same moving inner L.E. flaps of the B-model! But this is of little interest to most everyone...but it is so blatantly apparent in any photo with flaps down on C/D model Phantom.

 

I would welcome anyone's ideas to fix this..? If a mysterious annonymous new visual model were to appear in the new files section of the Forum here, I sure wouldn't ask any questions....

 

Mike D.

[mppd]

O.K. I give up - I just noticed that the RHAW antenna housing on the vertical stab is missing on the F-4B.LOD - even if added it could not be changed in color with each decal (as it is not part of the base .LOD). Unless someone knows a way to successfully hexedit the .LOD to make moving inner L.E. flaps, I'm done.

 

Thanks for everyone's patience and help with this lunatic idea.

 

Mike D.

[mppd]

O.K. - This is what I came up with - I have created a new 3D housing which fits on the nose. I have now have two choices:

 

1. An F-4D made from the stock F-4B - correct L.E. flaps, correct nose RHAW housing, but no vertical fin RHAW antenna and no wing bulges and with narrow Navy tires.

 

2. An F-4D from the stock D model - incorrect inner L.E. flaps, plus slight bulges in nose RHAW housing which show up in some close-up angles, but has tail RHAW antenna and nose looks pretty good from most angles.

 

I tend to go with the first choice, since the wing/tire issue is not very noticeable to me, and perhaps I can live with the tail RHAW antenna missing. I can build one, but it won't reflect fin tip colors.

 

Anyone interested in this as a release to CA, or even better - a fix by someone???

 

Mike D.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

I have some interest!!!

[Badfrank]

Yes, please release it or send it to me!

[+Muesli]

Yes, please release it or send it to me!

 

 

Hahaha, I think we all want it.

Probably two weeks!

[mppd]

Oh brother, it just dawned on me - use the F-4C .LOD for the base and that will get rid of the bumps on the nose. Now has anyone had any success hex-editing the .LODs? All we need is an F-4B.LOD with the tail RHAW antenna like on the F-4C/D. Then I'll be happy until something better comes along.

 

Mike (Hey Frank, you're still alive out there!!)

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Mh don`t know how it looks but create this antenna yourself in max and add this as a part via pilot adding procedure... and voila you have your antenna ?!

[mppd]

Problem is that it will not be part of the base .LOD and would not have all of my tail marking decals cover it.

 

There is a pirated (?) copy of the original 3DSMax F-4B/C/D/E source file floating around and no one wants to admit it exists. My bet is that several folks are flying a C/D visual model that is accurate in WOV but are afraid to release this to the general CA public. I'm not mentioning names but it isn't rocket science to figure out who probably has it.

 

I have not petitioned TK to make the C/D flap fix, I would guess perhaps that if he did that it would open the door to a flood of similar requests from everyone to fix every other little inaccuracy in the sims. Someone should give an inch here to help us all out to have a more accurate Phantom. I'm trying to help us all out here, even though this is becoming an obsession....

 

Mike D.