The Cobra Maneuver

[Cali]

MiGace1411, look here, is this what your doing in the WW2 era planes?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev's_Cobra

 

www.metacafe.com/watch/49961/su_27_doing_the_cobra_maneuver/

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTfZLQdkHo

[MiGace1411]

MiGace1411, look here, is this what your doing in the WW2 era planes?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev's_Cobra

 

www.metacafe.com/watch/49961/su_27_doing_the_cobra_maneuver/

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTfZLQdkHo

 

 

no, not exactly the same thing, its more of a go veritcal quickly and make the enemy overshoot you and get on his tail as he does.

[+JediMaster]

Forcing an overshoot is a time-honored technique that has been used in every major conflict with air engagements. A Cobra, however, loses even more airspeed. It's a bit like a benchmark like 3DMark for the PC. It won't tell you how well it will do in a particular situation, it just indicates the plane has a lot of agility that could be used in other more tactically effective ways.

[serverandenforcer]

Well, I for one saw the cobra maneuver performed by the AI against one of my wingman in a moddified install of WOE once. I was already shot down (I'm not much of a good pilot ) and began watching what my wingman were doing. We were in F/A-18As. I was viewing one wingman from the F-10 view. I saw the Flanker come from his 6 high, and flew past, underneath him. The flanker then pulled up hard, doing a cobra (believe me, I was shocked when I saw that), and sprayed rounds right into my wingman. I think it was used with ubber AI mod that's available here somewhere. That's probably the only way the cobra could be a practical maneuver. I've never seen the AI do it in a defensive move in the sim. It's essentially a high speed stall to the extreme.

[eugeni]

Я использую Кобру Пугачёва только для того,что бы погасить сверхзвуковую скорость до выпуска шасси и закрылков перед посадкой на авиабазе.

 

 

[xclusiv8]

Я использую Кобру Пугачёва только для того,что бы погасить сверхзвуковую скорость до выпуска шасси и закрылков перед посадкой на авиабазе.

 

 

 

Meaning?

 

 

[eugeni]

Meaning?

 

 

 

 

Cobra from supersonic speed special for weels*n*flaps eject before landing.( speed air-breaking)

[UnknownPilot]

Cobra from supersonic speed special for weels*n*flaps eject before landing.( speed air-breaking)

 

A "combat landing"? Hmm.... neat thought. Only really useful in sims though. Not often that you have to get a plane down in a hurry like that IRL. But in IL2 online you really do need to (and it's become a habit of impatience for me as a result), I typically crab it, pull steep barell rolls, even in some cases, hammer head just before the runway or carrier (go vert, pop the boards, chop throttle, and when speed drops, drop flaps and gear and kick over, then pull out in time to land it). Using a cobra maneuver as a giant-sized speed break for that would be effective.

 

But still not an ACM move.

 

I can't find it now, but am still looking, but I have seen a LOMAC video where this group of Su pilots were using the C-M like some here have mentioned, to effectively fire a missile backwards at a pursuer, and they were getting kills doing it. Naturally, it would be high risk, and if the pursuer has sufficient Avi and AAMs, then he'll be able to launch and split before you could lock and launch yourself doing the C-M. Still awesome to see in a "combat" situation though.

[UnknownPilot]

Found the movie I was thinking of, here it is -

[+Fubar512]

Cobra from supersonic speed special for weels*n*flaps eject before landing.( speed air-breaking)

 

Cobra maneuver from anything over 350 knots indicated air speed = broken airframe + very dead pilot

Edited March 25, 2010 by Fubar512

[kaskus]

please tell me.... how to do this manuvre in Wings Ove Europe ??

[kaskus]

how to do this manuver in WOE ???

[eugeni]

how to do this manuver in WOE ???

 

Or Il-2 Sturmowik.

[eugeni]

how to do this manuver in WOE ???

[dare2]

 

The ability to instantly point the nose of your aircraft in any direction without losing control is extremely useful both offensively and defensively since the best defense is a good offense: i.e. imagine being able to snap back 120 degrees to lob and AIM-9X at a target who thought he was pursing you.

 

 

That's a nice theory, apart for the fact that it is extremely costly in energy and that an aircraft like the Rafale achieves superior turn rates (both inst and sust) than a X-31 without needing been in post-stall, i saw Yves Kerhervé doing two high AoA 360* on Rafale M at Farnborough after a vertical climb just following take-off easily beating the Flanker change of attitude and with energy to spare (altitude).

 

PSM were explored by the French ONERA and IPNER with both Rafale A (Simulation) and C (prior to high-AoA tests), and for those who already doesn't know, both Rafale and Gripen are perfectly capable of PSM.

 

Examples:

(1)

http://hathor.onera.fr/images-science/simulation-numerique/avion-militaire-simulation-trajectoire.php

Simulation des manoeuvres du "Cobra" et de "HERBST"

(DCSD : B. Dang Vu & A. Lesain)

 

 

(2)

In the high AOA and spin tests that has taken place since 1996 and recently concluded successfully, the normal tactic was to initiate the tests with a near vertical climb with speed dropping off to near zero and a rapid increase of AOA up to extreme angles, and the aircraft could then be “parked” at 70 to 80 degrees of alpha. When giving adverse aileron input there, a flat spin with up to a maximum of 90 degrees per second of yaw rotation started and could then be stopped by pro aileron input. Recovery followed, whenever commanded.

 

http://www.mach-flyg.com/utg80/80jas_uc.html

 

The detailed example above goes for Gripen; note the perfectly controlable Yaw-axis rotation (ailerons) that could be started and stopped at will at 90* AoA, this is due to inherent high-AoA control qualities of the close-coupled canard impossible without TVC on X-31/Sus and F-22.

 

As for Rafale the results of the tests are still classified today but i can disclose a coupled of details; it was flown during mock-up combat vs Mirage 2000 at airspeed as low as 18kt and was still perfectly controlable passed 100* AoA/40 kt negative airspeed (and as i said; previous to IPNER high AoA tests, thus with all the FCS stops off).

 

Post-stall maneuvers are as old as aviation itself, one learn to control stall before learning to land (well, at least in my school we did).

 

There are reasons why PSM maneuvers aren't used by France (i'm not sure about Sweden so i'll skip this one):

 

First weapon separation is problematic due to low speeds and adverse aerodynamic conditions.

 

Second, not every squadron jockey can handle them, risks of spacial disorientation are high.

 

Third, what you need to win the fight it as high a level of energy as possible (unless like in a Rafale, you can handle low speeds and turn inside your opponent with ease).

 

If your jet can turn an instant 90* like a Rafale does, pull 11G (like they do in airshows) or turn a high-AoA (but still FCS limited) 360 faster without being post-stall, then your level of energy depletion is kept much lower and you will stay in controlled flight at all time even with assymetric loads.

 

IPNER role is to explore aircraft qualities in combat situations, they pushed the Rafale at higher AoA than X-31 could achieve due to better aerodynamics, performed cobras and J turns, control-flew it at "impossibly low airspeeds" but their conclusions were that a good AAM (and MICA can be fired BACKWARD, using remote targeting for cueing or even SPECTRA) is preferable in combat situation.

[dare2]

Correction, Gripen AoA was 80* with a rotation rate of 90*/sec which is higher (AoA) and faster (rotation) than what an X-31 would do using TVC.