F-102 Delta Dagger by Veltro2k

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

Ed, that would be great for NF4. If you could add the two center Falcon stations and use a singe animation for all six, then I could set up the weapons bay the same as the F-106, which is the best compromise to both allow the player to open the bay and allow the AI to fire the missiles.

 

 

[column5 63]

Hell of sweet.

[FastCargo 412]

Only problem is that the AI will fire through the aircraft with this method.

 

Just a note.

 

FC

[column5 63]

Only problem is that the AI will fire through the aircraft with this method.

 

Just a note.

 

FC

 

Not much that can be done about it...

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

Not much that can be done about it...

 

 

check your messages

[FastCargo 412]

Actually...I can fix it or can show Ed how to fix it if there are enough animation slots.

 

FC

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

Actually...I can fix it or can show Ed how to fix it if there are enough animation slots.

 

FC

 

im using max 9

[FastCargo 412]

Not a problem. I can send you the MAX file for the XF-103 for you to take a look how I did it.

 

The trick is that each weapon station MUST have it's own discrete animation slot so that the player and AI can use it and it looks correct (ie weapons don't fire through aircraft). Which means the linking can get complicated.

 

FC

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

Not a problem. I can send you the MAX file for the XF-103 for you to take a look how I did it.

 

The trick is that each weapon station MUST have it's own discrete animation slot so that the player and AI can use it and it looks correct (ie weapons don't fire through aircraft). Which means the linking can get complicated.

 

FC

 

or would it be better if I sent the 102 ?

[FastCargo 412]

That works too.

 

FC

[FastCargo 412]

Okay, at first blush, to get EVERYTHING to look right during bombbay door openings (by player and AI), requires a staggering SEVEN separate animations. Doable...but tough. If that's a bit much, the alternative is the rockets are combined into 1 animation, reducing the total needed to 4, and roughly giving the same appearance as the current setup.

 

Also, I'm assuming based on preliminary research, that the Deuce never carried the larger Genie, so it's internal armament would have consisted of a combination of 6 guided missiles (3 pair) and 24 rockets (or 12 if a pair of AIM-26A was carried in the center bay).

 

Any contradictory info out there on that armament issue?

 

FC

[+331Killerbee 840]

None what so ever, From what I've read. The Rocket Increase was a Field Mod. Most of them used by Vietnam had this Package for Project "Stove Pipe". I read a Link a while back that said that they wired the Outboard Pylons for Rockets durning Nam' too. Convair tried to get the AF to buy a fighter/Bomber Version....But declined. The AF Squadrons never followed up on their Outboard Rocket Mod either.....

Edited April 21, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[mppd 16]

Also, I'm assuming based on preliminary research, that the Deuce never carried the larger Genie, so it's internal armament would have consisted of a combination of 6 guided missiles (3 pair) and 24 rockets (or 12 if a pair of AIM-26A was carried in the center bay).

 

Any contradictory info out there on that armament issue?

 

FC

 

You have it right. Genie was tested as a possible mod but was never realized. I have several photos of a deuce in Vietnam with a TER on left pylon position with a single SUU-11 mounted on it, with a wing tank on right wing.

[+X RAY 83]

 

 

Mike I don't know in RL but in WoV it's very useful!I've seen the same photo somewhere!

[FastCargo 412]

Veltro was kind enough to share the F-102 MAX files with me, so I can take a good look at working the weapons bays.

 

I MAY have a solution to the bays that would allow only needing 4 animation slots, yet still make a convincing looking rocket engagement without making it a gun. It involves making a tweaked version of the FFAR .

 

FC

[+Dave 2,322]

A few Pacific-based squadrons got F-102s, the first being the 16th FIS based at Naha AFB on Okinawa which re-equipped in March of 1959. It was in the Pacific theatre that the F-102 was to achieve its only taste of combat. Aircraft from the 590th Fighter Interceptor Squadron were transferred to Tan Son Nhut AFB near Saigon in South Vietnam in March of 1962 to provide air defense against the unlikely event that North Vietnamese aircraft would attack the South. F-102As continued to be based there and in Thailand throughout much of the Vietnam war. F-102As stood alert at Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Sout Vietnam and at Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand. The F-102A was finally withdrawn from Southeast Asia in December of 1969. The F-102A established an excellent safety record in Vietnam. In almost ten years of flying air defense and a few combat air patrols for SAC B-52s, only 15 F-102As were lost. Although a few missions were flown over North Vietnam, the Southeast Asia-stationed F-102As are not thought to have actually engaged in air-to-air combat. However, one of my references has an F-102A of the 509th FIS being lost to an air-to-air missile fired by a MiG-21 while flying a CAP over Route Package IV on February 3, 1968. Two F-102As were lost to AAA/small arms fire and four were destroyed on the ground by the Viet Cong and eight were lost in operational accidents.

 

Strange as it may seem, the F-102A actually did fly some close-support missions over the South, even though the aircraft was totally unsuited for this role. These operations started in 1965 at Tan Son Nhut using the 405 FW alert detachment. Operating under the code-name "Project Stovepipe", they used their heat sinking Falcon missiles to lock onto heat sources over the Ho Chi Minh trail at night, often Viet Cong campfires. This was more of a harassment tactic than it was serious assault. They would even fire their radar-guided missiles if their radars managed to lock onto something. The pilots were never sure if they actually hit anything, but they would sometimes observe secondary explosions.

 

The F-102s soon switched to a day role, firing the 12 unguided FFAR rockets from the missile bays, using the optical sight. 618 day sorties were flown, the last one being flown at the end of 1965. One F-102A was downed by ground fire during one of these rocket attacks.

[mppd 16]

Ooohh, my mistake. The photos show the TER mounted with no pylon. It is mounted on a little stand-off kludged mount about 6 inches high, but for WOV purposes we could stick it directly to the underside of the wing. Not by my scanner or I'd post the photo. But that's the general idea. probably work pretty good on migs too!

 

Mike

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

Veltro was kind enough to share the F-102 MAX files with me, so I can take a good look at working the weapons bays.

 

I MAY have a solution to the bays that would allow only needing 4 animation slots, yet still make a convincing looking rocket engagement without making it a gun. It involves making a tweaked version of the FFAR .

 

FC

 

 

FC as long as you have it , check out the animation on the canopy, and Go ahead and animate the Hook,,,also Im dying to learn how to make chutes for my models

[+331Killerbee 840]

Ooohh, my mistake. The photos show the TER mounted with no pylon. It is mounted on a little stand-off kludged mount about 6 inches high, but for WOV purposes we could stick it directly to the underside of the wing. Not by my scanner or I'd post the photo. But that's the general idea. probably work pretty good on migs too!

 

Mike

 

Mike,

That Information falls in line with the statement that I said that they were LAU capable. The ITT Cannon Plugs are the same for all LAU's as it is for the TER's. They use the same Connecter. The SUU's do too.

[mppd 16]

You guys are right on the stick. I wish I had half of the technical knowledge you folks do. I come from a strictly historical standpoint - photos and text...and what I remember seeing at AFBs in the good old days. I'll make up that goofy adapter one of these days, also the two different styles of deuce wig tank pylons.

[FastCargo 412]

FC as long as you have it , check out the animation on the canopy, and Go ahead and animate the Hook,,,also Im dying to learn how to make chutes for my models

 

Actually, depending on the type of hook, we may not need to hardcode the animation for it (saving a slot).

 

I'll check the animation on the canopy, and I've got a perfect drag chute all ready for ya!

 

FC

[mppd 16]

Remember the deuce tailhook was an emergency item - once deployed it cannot be retracted in the air, has to be reset on the gnd. The barrier probe just behind the weps bay I believe was the same deal - no retraction in flt.

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

also do we have a final Fm on this yet ?

 

and I want to know all who participated so i can give proper credit on its final release..shin,cockpit ,ect ect

Edited April 21, 2009 by Veltro2k

[FastCargo 412]

Remember the deuce tailhook was an emergency item - once deployed it cannot be retracted in the air, has to be reset on the gnd. The barrier probe just behind the weps bay I believe was the same deal - no retraction in flt.

 

Not an issue, there's even an option for that in the data.ini.

 

I was using the FM that C5 provided.

 

FC

[Wrench 9,847]

I can't WAIT for the Final Pakage ™!!! All those good looking skins, ordway's pit....yah-good stuff here!!!

 

I"d like to thank ALL of you working this out. I just love the shape of the Deltas..

 

FC: try the MMHE1's I did up for the Scorpion ... they fly a lot straighter than the others

 

wrench

kevin stein