Visibility Problem

[Red Dragon 0]

I don't know if anyone feel the same. But it is hard to see in this game. Unlike in Lock on and IL-2, you can spot a plane from 10km away. But I can ony see less that 1 km in this game. Is there any patch for this?

[Fubar512 1,350]

I don't know if anyone feel the same. But it is hard to see in this game. Unlike in Lock on and IL-2, you can spot a plane from 10km away. But I can ony see less that 1 km in this game. Is there any patch for this?

 

In a word, no. Third Wire doesn't apply the common target-size "cheats" that most other sims use. The limitation here is one of resolution and pixel size, a target will be visible as long as it can be rendered as 1 pixel (or greater), in size. Also, speaking from experience, you can see small airborne targets (MiG-21s) at least 4 KM away, in game.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

In a word, no. Third Wire doesn't apply the common target-size "cheats" that most other sims use. The limitation here is one of resolution and pixel size, a target will be visible as long as it can be rendered as 1 pixel (or greater), in size. Also, speaking from experience, you can see small airborne targets (MiG-21s) at least 4 KM away, in game.

 

 

I agree. You can spot planes from quite a ways depending on the situation

[Red Dragon 0]

No, I can only see them whem they are in my gun range. And I do not believe that other sim cheated. Because I can see and IDENTIFY a plane from a distant great that 5km. But in this game even if I see MiG-21 from 4km away, I wouldn't know it is a MiG-21.

[Fubar512 1,350]

No, I can only see them whem they are in my gun range. And I do not believe that other sim cheated. Because I can see and IDENTIFY a plane from a distant great that 5km. But in this game even if I see MiG-21 from 4km away, I wouldn't know it is a MiG-21.

 

I really don't care what you believe, this series renders objects progressively (according to distance) down to one pixel, all others cheat by rendering aircraft larger than they would appear in RL to compensate for the fact that you're staring at a screen. 1 pixel is the limit of resolution.

 

If you run at a fairly high resolution (1600x1050 or 1600x1200), you will conceivably see aircraft "further", due to the fact that you're squeezing more pixels on screen.

[Fubar512 1,350]

5 miles, verified by the range to target readout on the HUD. That translates to 8.04672 km. I actually first aquired the Su-27 visually at 7+ miles

 

[serverandenforcer 33]

I actually first aquired the Su-27 visually at 7+ miles

 

 

How big is your monitor? I can't visually aquire crap at that range.

Edited August 26, 2008 by serverandenforcer

[+Crusader 2,101]

may the zoom be with you...

[MigBuster 2,884]

Yeah im stuck with 1280x1024 for the mo so cant see too far either - the track IR4 thing is good for zooming in to see afar if you must

[Red Dragon 0]

My monitor is a 1280x1024. And plane often blind themself in the ground colour. I mean if they flight below you. You can

't tell the difference between plane and ground.

And when I said 5km, I mean I use my eye not HUD, and I mean in real life. Last time a F-111 flight about 5km away I can still know it is F-111 because of it's shape.

[Fubar512 1,350]

How big is your monitor? I can't visually aquire crap at that range.

 

 

Mine is quite modest...Streak has used a 40+"

 

[Fubar512 1,350]

And when I said 5km, I mean I use my eye not HUD, and I mean in real life.

 

Clueless...........

[+streakeagle 871]

My old 19" CRT monitor at 1600x1200 is actually better than my 46" LCD TV at 1920x1080... my preferred solution would be a 2550x1600 (the best available at the consumer level) but for now I normally play on a 20" LCD monitor at 1600x1200. At 1024x768, I only got about 2/3 the detection range I get with 1600x1200.

 

Resolution is half the battle: for a given zoom level (which is basically field of view), double the resolution to double the distance you can see one pixel.

Zoom is the other half, and you can get good visual spotting distances using max zoom, but at the cost of a very narrow field of view. The 1080p LCD TV was a tradeoff: while the 1080 vertical resolution ensured I only got 90% of the range possible with 1200 vertical, it was super easy to see that 1 pixel target and identify the aspect of the target at it got closer (and bigger).

 

The built in cheat is to use normal settings for HUD and visual targetting then use the <t> key (or others as appropriate) to locate any one target, then you can zoom on it as required to identify it and/or judge its aspect/energy state. While Track IR makes the process of zooming in/out very easy and intuitive, my solution prior to owning track IR was to have the targeting keys on a hat switch on the joystick and have the zoom in/out mapped to a rotary knob on the throttle. I was actually able to maintain situational awareness better using this method over Track IR since it is fairly easy to get disoriented with Track IR while zoomed in (i.e. not know which direction you are looking). But TrackIR is far more immersive.

 

If people don't mind having 3d models rendered oversize to be viewable at long distances, why are TK's target boxes so bad? In fact, you can redefine the target boxes to be black spots if you want so they look like what you see in some other games at long distances and when you first aquire the target visually using the <t> key, you get an ID message telling you what type of aircraft you just acquired... which is no more cheating than having a glowing icon with the aircraft name.

 

So if you don't like TK's choice on rendering aircraft at long distance, there are ways to work around it to get results similar to what you might experience in other games.

 

In reality, US pilots in Vietnam had a very hard time detecting MiG-21s when they were coming head-on. 2nm (3.7km) was about the max range they could spot one... banked in a turn was another story. For comparison, when a jet airliner is contrailing at 30,000+ feet (almost 5 nm or 9.1 km), try picking out the engine nacelles on the wings. You could see the plane without contrails, though you might have to scan the sky a few times to find it after first hearing the engines. But other than the basic shape of the wings/fuselage/tail, not too many details are apparent. MiG-21s are smaller in diameter than the turbofans on airliners, from headon without any contrails, the thin wings and tail are invisible and the nose is just a speck on the windshield... while your eye may already see it at 5nm, it isn't until 2nm, the speck gets big enough to catch someone's attention without knowing it is there.

 

While TK's implementation is annoying if you are used to the way other games do it, I find that it models reality very well: the Navy trains lookouts to perform focused visual scan patterns much the way radars sweep their beams with the same tradeoffs between search area, detection probability, and sweep time. Adding binoculars provides even longer detection ranges at the cost of longer sweep times for a given area. Some pilots with a combination of exceptional vision, excellent scan discipline, and good intuition on where to focus their search can detect targets at much greater ranges than typical pilots (look for some quotes about how far Chuck Yeager could pick out enemy fighters in WW2). TK's version (when at max zoom) seems to replicate typical detection ranges rather than the best case or worst case ones. Zoomed out

[serverandenforcer 33]

Some pilots with a combination of exceptional vision, excellent scan discipline, and good intuition on where to focus their search can detect targets at much greater ranges than typical pilots (look for some quotes about how far Chuck Yeager could pick out enemy fighters in WW2).

 

And how many of us playing this game have bad eye sight?.... I do. I wear contacts. If I didn't I would be blind as a bat. And I'm pretty sure that even with them on, my vision is still probably not the best. Tis a terrible shame to. Had 20/15 vision all the way up to when I was 13. Then puberty hit and whacked out my vision to 20/210 over a period of two years. Up until then, my dream was to be fighter pilot in the real world. So much for that.

[Fubar512 1,350]

And how many of us playing this game have bad eye sight?.... I do. I wear contacts. If I didn't I would be blind as a bat. And I'm pretty sure that even with them on, my vision is still probably not the best. Tis a terrible shame to. Had 20/15 vision all the way up to when I was 13. Then puberty hit and whacked out my vision to 20/210 over a period of two years. Up until then, my dream was to be fighter pilot in the real world. So much for that.

 

 

Bad eyes? I've been working on Diesel engines since the mid-1970s, and on PCs since the mid-1980s....that's about when I noticed my eyesight really starting to slip. 20/210? Try 20/400.

 

Anyway, here's my solution to the visibilty issue, which I've presented as a request to TK: http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...p;t=5643#p34399

[Syrinx 13]

Hehehe.

 

Contacts, I'd be lost (literally) without mine.

 

Everything's great up to about two-feet away then wham, the world's a blur after that.

 

Server, my eyesight went downhill mid-teens too.

 

Still, the specs have\do come in handy.