Vietnam and frequncy of North vs South strike targets

[+malibu43 142]

I'm working on modding the WoV RT and LBI campaigns to add missions striking VC camps and such in the South Vietnam and Laos. I'm using the primary and secondary air offensive targets to control the frequency of strike missions in the south, and I'm curious about the ratio between strikes up north and strikes down south.

 

Now, I know some aircraft and units were specialized for CAS and missions in South Vietnam (F-100's and Skyraiders, maybe even A-7's). But for a lot of the other strike aircraft (F-105's, A-6's, F-4's, A-4's), how often should they be hitting soft targets in the South vs heading up North for heavily defended targets. Is it a one to one ratio? Should one or the other be the exception?

 

Like I said, I know it varies between aircraft types, units, and individuals, but I'm just looking for a general idea for how to balance my campaign. Input from experts and those with experiences welcome!

 

Thanks!

[charlielima 328]

I believe all the mud movers flew strike missions south. Navy flew off of Dixie Station to support stuff south. Thuds flew missions that where "no counters" because they where south. B-52s flew close air support. Marines flew F-4s, A-4s, and F-8s off the beach in support of ground troops. I'm looking forward to this.

:ph34r: CL

Edited December 22, 2008 by charlielima

[WDH 0]

Malibu43,

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fac/Thomas.Pilsch/Vietnam.html

Found this link which might help you in your quest.

 

Brady

[ironroad 218]

I can not give you exact numbers, but a good chunk of the missions were flown in points South or areas outside North Vietnam. In theory (well in Pierce Arrow, Flaming Dart, Rolling Thunder days) attacks on North Vietnam start of as retaliatory (very specific targets) and eventually escalated to a wider number of targets/areas (but they were still tightly controlled and selected). Even the types of airframes allowed to fly over North Vietnam were strictly controlled, i.e. B-52s did not really go up North until the 1970s. This is further was compounded with political moves, such as time targets were hit (which almost always had to be approved by the Johnson Admin) and "bombing halts".

 

You have to remember, all bombing of North Vietnam stopped in 1968 (although recon and limited interdiction continued), it did not kick up again until 1972.

 

In areas South bombs/sorties were called up as needed (when weather/conditions permitted) to stop communist advances, take out targets, or protect friendlies. Bombs came down more freely and frequently down South. For instance, take a look into Operation Niagara in where everything with wings was loaded up and called up to protect the areas in around Khe San. Planes were orbiting for miles up and miles out.

 

Sometimes tons of bombs would pound empty jungle other times massive strikes (in conjunction with troops) would be needed to take out enemy weapon's storage/caches and bases of operation, and do not think the AA and flak was just up North, it might not have been as dense, but especially towards the end of the war the NVA managed to get some anti air equipment (even sams) further south than usual. Throughout the war, small arms fire as a constant threat to aircraft flying FAC or CAS.

Edited December 22, 2008 by ironroad

[+hgbn 91]

Malibu do you consider adding Dixie Station as well?? It would be cool

[+malibu43 142]

I believe all the mud movers flew strike missions south. Navy flew off of Dixie Station to support stuff south. Thuds flew missions that where "no counters" because they where south. B-52s flew close air support. Marines flew F-4s, A-4s, and F-8s off the beach in support of ground troops. I'm looking forward to this.

:ph34r: CL

 

 

 

Malibu43,

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fac/Thomas.Pilsch/Vietnam.html

Found this link which might help you in your quest.

 

Brady

 

 

 

I can not give you exact numbers, but a good chunk of the missions were flown in points South or areas outside North Vietnam. In theory (well in Pierce Arrow, Flaming Dart, Rolling Thunder days) attacks on North Vietnam start of as retaliatory (very specific targets) and eventually escalated to a wider number of targets/areas (but they were still tightly controlled and selected). Even the types of airframes allowed to fly over North Vietnam were strictly controlled, i.e. B-52s did not really go up North until the 1970s. This is further was compounded with political moves, such as time targets were hit (which almost always had to be approved by the Johnson Admin) and "bombing halts".

 

You have to remember, all bombing of North Vietnam stopped in 1968 (although recon and limited interdiction continued), it did not kick up again until 1972.

 

In areas South bombs/sorties were called up as needed (when weather/conditions permitted) to stop communist advances, take out targets, or protect friendlies. Bombs came down more freely and frequently down South. For instance, take a look into Operation Niagara in where everything with wings was loaded up and called up to protect the areas in around Khe San. Planes were orbiting for miles up and miles out.

 

Sometimes tons of bombs would pound empty jungle other times massive strikes (in conjunction with troops) would be needed to take out enemy weapon's storage/caches and bases of operation, and do not think the AA and flak was just up North, it might not have been as dense, but especially towards the end of the war the NVA managed to get some anti air equipment (even sams) further south than usual. Throughout the war, small arms fire as a constant threat to aircraft flying FAC or CAS.

 

Thanks! Very helpful information. I think I'll bump up the frequency of missions in the south, at least in the first half of RT, and maybe a little in LBI. LBII will remain concentrated on the North, since it's such a quick one.

 

hgbn, Dixie station is already in the targets.ini, but I did add some AD-7's flying off of a carrier down there.

 

By reducing the mission radius of skyraiders and F-100's, you can ensure that they only get tasked with missions in the S. Vietnam. All the rest of the aircraft will have to get the same mix of North/South, whatever that ends up being. I'm shooting for about 50/50 or maybe even a little less south and more North. Even if it's not totally realistic, I think that'll be best for gameplay reasons.

 

I should have this uploaded today, hopefully.

[+malibu43 142]

v2.0 available now...

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=7730

 

If anyone gives the limited ground war option a try, please let me know what you think about the frequency of strike missions in the south. Because of the way the campagin engine generates missions, it's really hard to check the frequency of mission types (takes a long time and seems to be very random). So I did the best I could, but feedback would be very welcome!

Edited December 22, 2008 by malibu43

[+malibu43 142]

Hey guys, I have another question along similar lines to my first one. I've created separate campaigns to deal with the war up north and the war in the south. It just works out best that way with enemy air opposition and some other things. So now I have extremely fine control over target locations. For the "war up North" campaigns, there are no targets in the south. It just works out best that way with enemy air opposition and some other things.

 

For the war in the south, it's still possible to have units tasked with striking targets in the North. So, two questions:

 

1. USMC air units - Did they ever go north, or did they only fly in the south in support of ground units?

2. Were there any squadrons in the USN (A-4, F-4, A-6, A-7) that only flew in the south, or did all of them share some part of the work load up north?

 

Thanks for your help!

Edited January 18, 2009 by malibu43

[+331Killerbee 840]

m43,

Q #1. Yes, only as a Strike Package......Very Rare. CAS...Mostly support of Force Recon Units working Just across the DMZ and into Laos. (That's up North, That is.......)

 

Q #2. Dixie Station.....Cross reference Carriers that operated at Dixie with this: http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/ordbat.htm

 

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

Edited January 18, 2009 by 331Killerbee