Some new releases at my site

[Wrench 9,586]

Like it says, some new mods, updates of some old (and in one case, utter garbage).

 

F2A Buffalo, VF-2, USS Lexington, Dec 1941:

Gets a cockpit update, and some other minor ini tweeks

 

Another F2A, VMF-212 Ewa, March 1942 (this totally replaces the original from 2005 - as it was total crap!)

 

New skin and ini tweeks to the TBF-1C (lots of minor imporvements), VT-2, USS Hornet, June-ish 1944 (for the upcoming Marina Island map)

 

All up now at my site

Enjoy!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

link down here in my sig....--->

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Niicccccccccee

[Wrench 9,586]

This one's also in the works; need to weather a lot more and do up the serial decals...

 

 

for whenever Baltika (???) finishs the Malaya region map. Already have an Oscar for it's adversery aircraft

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Kirsten 0]

If you need any info about the KNIL Buffalo let me know, very nice work.

A replica is being built in the US for the Air Force Museum in Soesterberg.

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[Wrench 9,586]

I thank you fro the offer! Most definately, will take you up on it!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[WDH 0]

Wrench,

What model of aircraft did President Bush Sr. fly?And how many times did they pluck him out of the water?1st was either Midway or Wake attacks I believe.Good trivia for the WWII guru!

 

Brady

[Wrench 9,586]

-1C or early -3 TBM.

 

He was shot down during operations around Iwo. (Ha-ha Jim??? - disremember) mid 45?? Don't know about any other time having to get fished out...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[WDH 0]

-1C or early -3 TBM.

 

He was shot down during operations around Iwo. (Ha-ha Jim??? - disremember) mid 45?? Don't know about any other time having to get fished out...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Wrench,

The a/c's are 4 TBM's,1 -1c TBF and the other 1 I don't know.But,it was 6 times he was shot down.He had to use these aircraft as fighter planes due to availablity of resupply.He was taking part in defending Wake when he's flight engaged Zero's trying to back to their carriers.Gunner on TBM had no Bubble turrent.Just a slide open canopy.They got 2 before being shot down.

 

Brady

[Shaolin 0]

I have to admit, the Buffalo is (like the Wildcat and the Hellcat) a pretty ugly plane...

Seems like the only elegant navy design of WW2 is the Corsair!

 

(Sorry, no offence intended!)

[Wrench 9,586]

None taken -- since I don't work for Brewster!

 

Don't forget, the F2A WAS the first modern monoplane delivered the USN in the mid-30, so it was quite advanced for 1936!!

 

Oddly enough, Brewster was a sub-contractor for Vought, and built several hundred Corsairs .. complete aircraft. They also made bomb racks for the -1A and -1Ds. Disremember the disgination to seperate the Vought built (F4U) from the Brewster built versions

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[WDH 0]

Why did WWII,mostly USN torpedo bombers,use only radial engines?Was it cost or the power produced?I know i am missing something about this and there's got to be a logical reason for it.

 

Brady

[+Geezer 3,569]

Why did WWII,mostly USN torpedo bombers,use only radial engines?Was it cost or the power produced?I know i am missing something about this and there's got to be a logical reason for it.

 

Brady

 

Radial engines are simpler than liquid-cooled engines. There's less equipment installed inside the aircraft (saving space and weight) and less support required onboard a carrier (for example, you don't need a radiator shop).

[WDH 0]

Radial engines are simpler than liquid-cooled engines. There's less equipment installed inside the aircraft (saving space and weight) and less support required onboard a carrier (for example, you don't need a radiator shop).

 

Maintenance not so costly!Gosh,sometimes I'm so dumb!Thanks Geezer!

 

Brady

[Wrench 9,586]

A single "Golden BB" can take down a liquid cooled engine, where as a radial will probably withstand it. RE: P-47s returning to England with entire cylinder assemblies shot away, and the engine not only running, but producing plenty of power

 

Less maintence, less 'accessories' weighing down the aircraft (radiators, associated piping, ducting, coolant pumps and resivours {sp?}), smaller more compact power plant (offset slightly by larger frontal area ie: less streamlining), simplified operation, replacement parts interchangable between other aircraft based on carrier. (although, this could also be said for V-1700 series Allisons or Merlins)

Reliability.

 

This is a discussion that crops up every so often...suffice it to say, the US Navy choose to go with radials. The US Army Air Force seemed to perfer V-12 in-lines (for fighters). It's basically in the designers corner. The AF was more concerned with streamling and speed, as all the necessary repair/maintence facilities are/were at large, fixed bases. The Navy was more concerned with getting the easiest, simplist powerplants to maintain, cause space be limited on them boats.

 

Let's not EVEN go near the discussion of singles vs twins (mostly in the post-war Gen 1 Jets and later). The entire discussion is for a 'hole 'nuther thread!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+Geezer 3,569]

If you need any info about the KNIL Buffalo let me know, very nice work.

A replica is being built in the US for the Air Force Museum in Soesterberg.

 

Aju,

 

Derk

 

Perhaps you can clear up a question I have about KNIL cammo and markings? In late 1941, the KNIL saw that war was imminent and painted over the orange rudders of its aircraft. Some sources also say that the orange triangles on the upper wing surfaces were also painted over, at least on the Martin 139 bombers. Were the upper wing orange triangles painted over on ALL KNIL aircraft?

 

Also, three types of fighters were bought from the US in the last years before the war - all three types were painted in two-color cammo on the upper and side surfaces. Photos show the upper surface colors to have less contrast than usual, and some sources state that the colors were dark green and olive drab (not earth brown). This would seem consistant with the lower contrast of the photos.

 

Can you confirm the use of olive drab instead of earth brown?

 

Thanks,

 

Geezer

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

maybe its my isp, but i keep getting a 404 on the 4seasons download , and the counter on the page is stuck at 00000000

(just to let you know)

 

P.S. you sure got a bunch of purdy lookin planes !

Edited December 25, 2008 by gwar

[Kirsten 0]

Perhaps you can clear up a question I have about KNIL cammo and markings? In late 1941, the KNIL saw that war was imminent and painted over the orange rudders of its aircraft. Some sources also say that the orange triangles on the upper wing surfaces were also painted over, at least on the Martin 139 bombers. Were the upper wing orange triangles painted over on ALL KNIL aircraft?

 

Also, three types of fighters were bought from the US in the last years before the war - all three types were painted in two-color cammo on the upper and side surfaces. Photos show the upper surface colors to have less contrast than usual, and some sources state that the colors were dark green and olive drab (not earth brown). This would seem consistant with the lower contrast of the photos.

 

Can you confirm the use of olive drab instead of earth brown?

 

Thanks,

 

Geezer

 

Quite a number of questions. The orange triangles on the upper wing surfaces were indeed painted over for better ground camouflage, and/or the planes were delivered without them.

When war broke out on most planes the orange triangles on the other positions were removed and a Dutch flag was painted over instead. At least all the KNIL Buffaloes that fought in the defense of Singapore were painted that way while in the mean time at Java and other places the process of changing to flags went on. Indeed nothing on top of the wings. The orange rudders had been painted over some time before that.

As for the colours , there was a two tone pattern consisting of "Oudblad" (old leaves) Fs 34088 / US Dark Olive Drab and "Jongblad" (young leaves) Fs 34092 / US Medium Green, while the undersurfaces were painted aluminium. The colours quoted were not actually used but they came

as close as possible according to the experts of Dutch Profile.

If you give me your emailadress I'll send you the same info that went to Wrench.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Derk :yes:

[Wrench 9,586]

Those profiles are gonna be a HUGE help!!! Be a simple matter to whip out the various different skins by just swapping the insignia around, via different layers in the template. My BoF Insignia psd (courtesy of simmerspaintshop.com) has those on it.

Removing the upper wing units is, agian, a simple matter (always thought they'd have been removed -- too damn bright!)

 

I had the same problems when doing the ML-KNIL Hawk 75; just trying to figure out the right colors is INSAAAANEEEE!!! That one got a 3-tone upper scheme

 

simmerspaint shop had some pretty good color chimps, with RGB values that I used to recreate them:

 

Medium Green /KLU Young Leaf: 83, 100, 90

RAF Dark Green/ KLU Old Leaf: 89,92,78

RAF Dark Earth: 123, 105, 78

Dark OD : 85, 79, 68

 

the 'natual metal' I"ve never gotten a really good handle on, I mostly use 15-20 % gray, and hope for the best.

 

On the other side of the coin, the Kagero Buffalo book (which I got last week on pdf), mentions the KNIL getting wrong colors, as applied at the Brewster factroy. Some souces state 'used standard US OD in place of the greens' or "used standard RAF color schemes"

 

Gets very confusing, VERY fast. I've even been scouring the web for more info. There's a Buffalo forum at some "Warbirds" site, with some VERY informed folks. Mostly from a Peter -somebody- in The Netherlands. I think he migh have written some books on the subject??

 

Also have to check into my copy of Culls "Buffalos Over Singapore" -- great piece of work!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

EDIT:

Gwar; the 4 seasons ANW is here at CombatAce

I never updated/got a new counter code. Have to fix that someday....;)

 

EDIT2:

Looks like a small update on the Hawk 75 may be in order, to remove those uppper triangles!

[Kirsten 0]

Hello Kevin,

 

The guys from the Buffalo forum at Warbirds sure know their way around. They basically confirm the thing about the FS colours coming very near to "Oudblad" and "Jongblad".

For good measure look at www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/pictures/brewster_replica.asp and you'll see the latest Buffalo .....

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[+Geezer 3,569]

Gets very confusing, VERY fast.

 

I have several articles in old Air Enthusiast quarterlies about ML-KNIL aircraft by Dutch historian Gerard Casius. They are full of fascinating photos and historical details about the Curtiss CW-21B and Martin 139. He states that the three color flag marking was not used during the first days of the Pacific war. These sources state that the NEI governor-general decreed the insignia should be changed on 24 February because it could be confused with faded red Japanese insignia. This decree was ratified by Royal Decree in London on 12 March 1942, and repainting aircraft began soon thereafter.

 

On the subject of colors, all but the most meticulous of references usually get the Olive Drab color wrong in color profiles. There were actually THREE official Olive Drab colors - one specified by Army Material Command, one specified by Army Ground Forces, and one specified by the USAAF. The original OD, specified by Army Material Command, was used pre-war and well into WW2. This color faded quickly because the stabilizer (cadmium) was reserved for armor plate production. Consequently, the USAAF issued its own OD spec with black pigment added - this darkened the color, shifted it's tint towards olive green, and delayed fading. However it was never available in the quantities required, so the Material Command OD was FREQUENTLY substituted for the unavailable USAAF OD on aircraft.

 

The original Material Command OD had a brownish tint that became more pronounced as the color faded, and most references do not show this brownish tint. Photos below show brand new OD paint on an Airacobra, and an Airacobra with faded OD paint. The brownish tint is consistant with the "Old Leaves" description - it was NOT greenish.

 

 

[+Geezer 3,569]

Two more shots on the subject. One shows faded Material Command OD on the nearest B-17, with a portion of the outer LH wing painted a newer color - either dark green or USAAF OD? Shot of P-40 shows the colors used by Curtiss that were considered equivalent to RAF Dark Green and Dark Earth. The US colors were close to the British colors, but were not an exact match.

 

 

[Kirsten 0]

I have several articles in old Air Enthusiast quarterlies about ML-KNIL aircraft by Dutch historian Gerard Casius. They are full of fascinating photos and historical details about the Curtiss CW-21B and Martin 139. He states that the three color flag marking was not used during the first days of the Pacific war. These sources state that the NEI governor-general decreed the insignia should be changed on 24 February because it could be confused with faded red Japanese insignia. This decree was ratified by Royal Decree in London on 12 March 1942, and repainting aircraft began soon thereafter.

 

On the subject of colors, all but the most meticulous of references usually get the Olive Drab color wrong in color profiles. There were actually THREE official Olive Drab colors - one specified by Army Material Command, one specified by Army Ground Forces, and one specified by the USAAF. The original OD, specified by Army Material Command, was used pre-war and well into WW2. This color faded quickly because the stabilizer (cadmium) was reserved for armor plate production. Consequently, the USAAF issued its own OD spec with black pigment added - this darkened the color, shifted it's tint towards olive green, and delayed fading. However it was never available in the quantities required, so the Material Command OD was FREQUENTLY substituted for the unavailable USAAF OD on aircraft.

 

The original Material Command OD had a brownish tint that became more pronounced as the color faded, and most references do not show this brownish tint. Photos below show brand new OD paint on an Airacobra, and an Airacobra with faded OD paint. The brownish tint is consistant with the "Old Leaves" description - it was NOT greenish.

 

 

Hi Geezer,

 

Check mail,

 

Aju,

 

Derk