Western Front Map 1915-1916 for in game use UP

[Interlocutor 0]

heh, ironically I was thinking of doing precisely that to try and recreate the actual photo-recon mission experience anyways. I was reading through a book on Allied aerial recon and photographic procedures and was even thinking of trying to use maps on the scale that would have been in use historically. the only variation on your idea that I was going to try and implement would be to treat EVERY recon sortie in campaign as precisely this sort of assignment. although I fully expect to get killed a lot while doing this!

 

Hi Waldemar,

 

I tried that as well :yes: . I enlisted a pilot in the RFC, more than one by the time I was through actually, given that some met untimely ends at the hands of German airmen . My "recon pilot" joined a BE2c squadron, and tried to run missions in-game, "photographing the front". But it became very difficult. First he had to leave whatever mission his aircraft was assigned & "fly his own mission", which meant he had no wingmates for support. Second, it took forever to climb the BE2c up to even 10,000 feet, and it couldn't go much higher. I switched to RE8's, which could at least get up to 15000 feet.

 

But when Germans came calling, as did happen, the mission became a bust. I would have to stop taking "photos" (downward screenshots with momentarily invisible cockpit) to try and fend off the attackers, and frankly, I'm no good as an observer/gunner .

[rabu 9]

Hi Waldemar,

 

I tried that as well :yes: . I enlisted a pilot in the RFC, more than one by the time I was through actually, given that some met untimely ends at the hands of German airmen . My "recon pilot" joined a BE2c squadron, and tried to run missions in-game, "photographing the front". But it became very difficult. First he had to leave whatever mission his aircraft was assigned & "fly his own mission", which meant he had no wingmates for support. Second, it took forever to climb the BE2c up to even 10,000 feet, and it couldn't go much higher. I switched to RE8's, which could at least get up to 15000 feet.

 

But when Germans came calling, as did happen, the mission became a bust. I would have to stop taking "photos" (downward screenshots with momentarily invisible cockpit) to try and fend off the attackers, and frankly, I'm no good as an observer/gunner .

 

To get back on track...

 

Here is Map B and Map E from the Western Front set with icons added for dromes. Thanks to ChrisPDM1 and Dirk for finding the locations using Google. Please let me know what you think.

These are only screen size, but you can still probably print them to test it out.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2009 by rabu

[OlPaint01 0]

Hey Rabu

 

The marked up map segments are sweet!!! Will you also be labeling the aerodromes by name as well as placing the airfield icons on the maps? I can hardly wait for you to post the finished work that you, ChrisPDM1 and Dirk have produced. I really appreciate this OFF community. There is so much knowledge within our group and everyone is so willing to share it.

 

OlPaint01

[rabu 9]

Hey Rabu

 

The marked up map segments are sweet!!! Will you also be labeling the aerodromes by name as well as placing the airfield icons on the maps? I can hardly wait for you to post the finished work that you, ChrisPDM1 and Dirk have produced. I really appreciate this OFF community. There is so much knowledge within our group and everyone is so willing to share it.

 

OlPaint01

 

Thanks, OP, that might be possible too. For now, it would really help if some of you would try these out and see if they help out in game. They are located for 1916 according to Chris.

 

Thanks,

[Dirk98 0]

Thanks to ChrisPDM1 and Dirk

 

It's all done by ChrisPDM1, and thank you, guys. The locations look awesome on the map, Rabu. I wonder is there somewhere a list of the airfields in the game. Each time when you're briefed there's a name given to your destination waypoint which is almost always an airfield.

 

Dirk.

[chrispdm1 1]

All the aerodorme map names are found in the ingame map. Jut put your cursor over them to find out the name. THe allied aerodromes are all mapped and I just started mapping out the german aerodromes today and am about a 1/3 done. Hopefully by tomorrow evening everything should be done.

 

and to second rabu's point, please check these out and see if they are accurate. THis is the time to make changes when I still have all my papers and coordiantes hanging around. I've found one or 2 innaccuracies, some cause by the game, some caused by us....

I'm going to do a big fly around tomorrow on the allied side and check and make sure everything looks ok.

 

One thing I noticed that is pretty major: Ypres is too far west in the game. considering it has 5 airfields clustered around it, please make note of that if you are using it for a navigation point.

 

Thanks to Dirk for his help. (he prolly knows the german side of the lines better than anyone now...) Thanks to rabu for making this possible and doing yet still more work on his maps!

Edited March 15, 2009 by chrispdm1

[OlPaint01 0]

Hey Chris

 

The Ypres city location is hard wired into the game, correct? Is that something the Devs can correct in the game code? Rabu, can Winder make the map correction in the game when he returns from R&R? If our goal is to navigate around with Maps only, don't you think we should get the facts as good as they can be in the game?

 

I will be testing the B section map this week end. My 1RNAS squadron Noop11s fly sorties out of St Pol Sur Mer so I know the Dunkirk area like the back of my hand. I will let you guys know if I find any discrepancies.

 

Man, I am really excited about this work!!!

 

OlPaint01

[Bigfish2 0]

Hi Mapmakers all, this is just by way of encouragement for all your great efforts and to say "thanks" in anticipation - I'm really looking forward to trying out some "real" navigation.

[IvanK 0]

There is a text/XML file in there that lists the lat long of every airfield. I was looking at it the other day with the aim of putting a Lat Long Grid over the top of Rabus map. I cannot for the life of me remember the file name though. I think it was in one of the facilities folders.

Edited March 15, 2009 by IvanK

[rabu 9]

There is a text/XML file in there that lists the lat long of every airfield. I was looking at it the other day with the aim of putting a Lat Long Grid over the top of Rabus map. I cannot for the life of me remember the file name though. I think it was in one of the facilities folders.

 

That would be very helpful!

[IvanK 0]

I think its : qclocations.xml in the main "CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields" folder. This is the sort of data it lists:

 

<Locations>

<Country Name="British Fields Flanders">

<City Name="Assevillers">

<Airbase ID="Assevillers" Lat="N49*53'51.0000" Lon="E2*49'38.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

<City Name="Balatre">

<Airbase ID="Balatre" Lat="N49*53'51.0000" Lon="E2*52'48.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

<City Name="Bapaume">

<Airbase ID="Bapaume" Lat="N50*07'07.0000" Lon="E2*51'35.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

[rabu 9]

I think its : qclocations.xml in the main "CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields" folder. This is the sort of data it lists:

 

<Locations>

<Country Name="British Fields Flanders">

<City Name="Assevillers">

<Airbase ID="Assevillers" Lat="N49*53'51.0000" Lon="E2*49'38.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

<City Name="Balatre">

<Airbase ID="Balatre" Lat="N49*53'51.0000" Lon="E2*52'48.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

<City Name="Bapaume">

<Airbase ID="Bapaume" Lat="N50*07'07.0000" Lon="E2*51'35.0000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1916"/>

</City>

 

Thanks, Ivan, but WM has a whole other set that change with the year and month of the campaign under his WWI Scenery/Period folder. Most of the changes were in 1918. If ploted out they would give the names and locations though.

[77Scout 3]

You guys have probably noticed this already, but the City locations shown on the in-game maps (shown by the red dots on the bitmaps of Europe) are often not where the city is actually located when flying in the game.

 

I don't know which is actually correct.

 

Yep, there is lots of info in the data files if you can figure it all out. In addition to aerodrome locations, just about everything else too...towns, frontlines etc.

 

Aren't the aerodrome locations in OFF pretty much constant through the war? Since aerodromes switch from British to German etc as the frontline ebbs and flows, why not just use a generic symbol for them (instead of roundels for British, etc etc). This will save the need to make multiple versions of the map for everytime the frontlines move.

[rabu 9]

You guys have probably noticed this already, but the City locations shown on the in-game maps (shown by the red dots on the bitmaps of Europe) are often not where the city is actually located when flying in the game.

 

I don't know which is actually correct.

 

Yep, there is lots of info in the data files if you can figure it all out. In addition to aerodrome locations, just about everything else too...towns, frontlines etc.

 

Aren't the aerodrome locations in OFF pretty much constant through the war? Since aerodromes switch from British to German etc as the frontline ebbs and flows, why not just use a generic symbol for them (instead of roundels for British, etc etc). This will save the need to make multiple versions of the map for everytime the frontlines move.

 

 

I took these Flanders maps from the Red Baron Western Front patch and put them in a slide show so you can see the changes from 1915 to 1918. I know there was a lot of work put into this project. Although the Red Baron maps are not very accurate in them selves and are much too small for any accurate printing, it's still interesting to see the changes in time... just scroll through it.

 

click for the pdf slide show

[IvanK 0]

Thats really informative Thank you

[IvanK 0]

I think Scout77's idea of just using a Generic Airfield symbol is a good idea. Assuming the airfields in OOF are constant in terms of location throughout the war then a Generic symbol might be the way to go.

Edited March 16, 2009 by IvanK

[OlPaint01 0]

You guys have probably noticed this already, but the City locations shown on the in-game maps (shown by the red dots on the bitmaps of Europe) are often not where the city is actually located when flying in the game.

 

I don't know which is actually correct.

 

Yep, there is lots of info in the data files if you can figure it all out. In addition to aerodrome locations, just about everything else too...towns, frontlines etc.

 

Aren't the aerodrome locations in OFF pretty much constant through the war? Since aerodromes switch from British to German etc as the front line ebbs and flows, why not just use a generic symbol for them (instead of roundels for British, etc etc). This will save the need to make multiple versions of the map for everytime the frontlines move.

 

77Scout makes a good point. Aerodromes did change hands over the course of the conflict. I did not realize how dramatic the changes were until I scrolled through Rabu's slide show. I recall that RB3D Western Front Patch is a date based mod using CM11 utility to swap the appropriate date based files in and out of the game. Mark66 and Greybeard and the crew at the old SWWISA are still modding the old girl.

 

As I see it we have two directions we could go:

1) we can build several map sets that are date based with the service icons for the airfields arranged following a snap shot of the war, as in RB3D Moving Front Patch mod, when various major offensive pushes caused exchanges in the control of territory. Then we would just reach for the map set with the appropriate Simulation Date to fly over.

OR

2) we build a universal map for the entire war showing a generic icon for the airfields that actually exchanged hands with the moving front offensives and then mark locations with the proper service's icon for the fields that did not switch ownership.

 

Of course, if someone who might be ambitious enough and talented enough to write a program to drop the icons on the map based on the date for us that we could print out...Dream On.

 

OlPaint01

Edited March 16, 2009 by OlPaint01

[rabu 9]

What about standard icons for sides that didn't switch hands, and double icons for ones that did with the predominate side being dominate? ie:

 

[Dirk98 0]

What about standard icons for sides that didn't switch hands, and double icons for ones that did with the predominate side being dominate? ie:

 

 

Unnecessary exuberance from the gameplay point of view but very neat little touch from the mapping arts side. :)

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

[rabu 9]

Unnecessary exuberance from the gameplay point of view but very neat little touch from the mapping arts side. :)

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

 

Huhh..? Wouldn't you rather see which dromes are which, instead of a generic, non national icon? I would, and I'm sure most players would as well. I would also like to see which are Brits, which French, which Belgium, (although the Belgium units were pretty obvious, they were way up in the N.W. corner).

[Dirk98 0]

Huhh..? Wouldn't you rather see which dromes are which, instead of a generic, non national icon? I would, and I'm sure most players would as well. I would also like to see which are Brits, which French, which Belgium, (although the Belgium units were pretty obvious, they were way up in the N.W. corner).

 

 

Don't worry, I'll be washed away from here shortly.

 

Sure, I'm also sure most players would as well. But that's me.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

[OlPaint01 0]

Rabu

 

Your stacked double icons idea is really cool. The roundel behind the German Cross could be either red for French or Blue for British or even yellow/orange for Belgium. Neat!!! How would you decide the which is the dominate icon?

 

OlPaint01

[rabu 9]

Rabu

 

Your stacked double icons idea is really cool. The roundel behind the German Cross could be either red for French or Blue for British or even yellow/orange for Belgium. Neat!!! How would you decide the which is the dominate icon?

 

OlPaint01

 

The dominate one would be the one that held through the war the most. Look at that pdf I posted from the Western Front and you'll see what I mean. By the end of 1918 there were a lot of German air fields taken over, so they would have the German cross with the roundel behind it.

[rabu 9]

Don't worry, I'll be washed away from here shortly.

 

Sure, I'm also sure most players would as well. But that's me.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

 

You better not get "washed away" we need you around here!

[IvanK 0]

Standard and Double icons .. neat idea.