off dog fight competion trial

[stumpjumper 3]

as of thsi date due to lack of some mp ppl doves and hawks willbe hosting a dogfight league on a trail basis to spark some more intrest in online experinces,

 

the date is not set but wll be soon

please vote if intrested and ill get to cracking on gettting it set up this willbe ina stock envroment and not involve the itlay area at all for the itme being

thanks

stump

Edited March 12, 2009 by stumpjumper

[RCAF_Dudley 0]

I'm in! I can certainly provide some excellent target material.

[messaround 0]

Count me in. Stock envroment means no custom maps?

[griphos 0]

I've only flown MP a few times and dogfighting only once, but it was a blast, so I'm definitely in! I fought Gary when his N17 was invisible! I turned labels on and still couldn't hit him, until i HIT him. I wonder what the boys on the ground thought of that one. An Alb. DV flying along shooting at nothing and then running into an invisible wall in the sky and falling to the ground like a brick!

 

[Axgrinder 0]

Good idea Stumper!

 

I'm in for sure.

[Doughboy 0]

If RL allows I'm in

[MJmorrow 0]

If RL allows I will be there with a "Friend and Enemy Wreath," my killer can toss over my grave while pulling away in his snazzy Albatross.....full honors too I hope. =)

 

All the best,

MJ

Edited March 20, 2009 by MJmorrow

[Ras 0]

I will look forward to joining also, and if there is a possibilty of some read advance notice (knowing that sopmetimes it is difficult) it would help a whole lot. I know that in a couple of virtual airlines I am a member of, we set a particular night (s) for flying. If one misses, then there is another available

[sitting_duck 3]

I will look forward to joining also, and if there is a possibilty of some read advance notice (knowing that sopmetimes it is difficult) it would help a whole lot. I know that in a couple of virtual airlines I am a member of, we set a particular night (s) for flying. If one misses, then there is another available

 

I am sure there will be plenty of advanced notice. As all the formalities of exactly how this is going to be run have not been worked out, It will be a little while before everything is finilalized.

Edited March 21, 2009 by sitting_duck

[GaryR 0]

I'm in as long as everyone else flies the Alb and I fly the Newport lewis with no labels...

[Aussie Pilot 0]

I would love to try this, it could be great fun, but after last time we flew together i don't think my PC is up for it.

My game crashed twice and TS once last time. I was attacking a DR-1 but could always see 3 as it jittered about in front of me. I can't see me flying OFF online until i build a better PC, as Winder said, OFF is a ram hungry game and with his brilliant work on the scenery as well as all the skins I can see why.

 

For those who haven't flown dog fights against others before here's some info from my experiences so you won't get dissapointed or feel your crap at flying if you don't do to well. Maybe things have change but here's what i have noticed anyway.

 

Unlike flying co-op mission where your all on the same side, different PC specs make a difference, faster PC's seem to do better. Internet conections, faster one's are better. The host is usually fastest because he is hosting, so the further away from the host and the slower your pc and net connection is the greater your ping will be. This means there will be more lag in your game. So if your shooting at someone but he shoots you down first from being in front of you, then you're seeing his ghost so to speak because he has made the turn on you already but because of the lag you are still catching him up.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining, i had great fun when doing this with people in a similar set up and location but because i didn't know about these things i mentioned above i also found it very frustrating when flying in a more internation group, which kind of spoils things, nobody likes being the one that gets shot down all the time and above is usually the reason why.

 

Anyway i hope i haven't discourage you, please give it a go, it's great fun when you know how it all works.

 

Stumper and Sitting Duck, if i am wrong about this and things have changed, feel free to correct this and let me know because then i may be tempted to join in and shoot you all down myself...

Edited March 21, 2009 by Aussie Pilot

[GaryR 0]

Unlike flying co-op mission where your all on the same side, different PC specs make a difference, faster PC's seem to do better. Internet conections, faster one's are better. The host is usually fastest because he is hosting, so the further away from the host and the slower your pc and net connection is the greater your ping will be. This means there will be more lag in your game. So if your shooting at someone but he shoots you down first from being in front of you, then you're seeing his ghost so to speak because he has made the turn on you already but because of the lag you are still catching him up.

 

Aussie, I think you are pretty accurate with your statement. If all conditions are perfect and everyone is >50ms a dogfight can go well. As soon ast the numbers start to vary all heck breaks loose. I think everyone here knows and has seen the results as you describe them. It's the net code and it's a shame. It was exactly the same with Mig Alley (a game I loved due to the era of jets). You would be on a Mig's butt in a MP dogfight and then you would see orange golf balls (his cannon rounds) flying by you from behind with no one there! I think both games were designed to run on a 10 mbps network back then and the internet, with up to 30 hops between machines, just introduces too many variables. It's too bad the coders from Warbirds and Aces High didn't write the code back then... those sims have some amazing code for mega plane mp online.

 

I'll add that because of the state of affairs a MP dogfight is just fun but you can't draw any conclusions from it. I would rather, on the whole, fly 6-10 human co-op missions with a purpose that last a while. A well written mission is an absolute blast online.

 

Just my $.02

Edited March 21, 2009 by GaryR

[sitting_duck 3]

Good point everyone. So one thing that has to be done is find the best possible host(s). We have some control over that factor. Obviously we do not have any control over the the individual pilots internet. Along the same lines, probably should shoot for a day that does not have heavy internet usage.

[griphos 0]

I'll second what Aussie said. I have been flying with these guys for a few weeks now, and I'm always the slowest connection (fast computer, but wireless connection with an older g router...time to run some cable, I think). My lag is always somewhere between 100ms and 200ms (yikes!), usually about mid-100s. It makes for some pretty strange enemy aircraft behavior, and it is a good idea for people to know that going in. Thanks, Aussie, for adding that to the conversation.

 

HOWEVER, as I said on the last session online, what could be more fun than shooting at your friends?! I've been having a blast. And in some ways, it makes me a better pilot, I think. Yes, the planes I'm flying against behave in ways no plane should at times, and I've been shot while drawing a bead on a plane right in front of me (BY THAT VERY PLANE...and no, it wasn't a two-seater). At first I thought flying this way was counterproductive as I had to learn skills not useful in more realistic battle simulation. But because of all this, I can't just rely on the superior turning rate of my own plane (I try to get the best turners to fight in) as I'm wont to do. I have to learn other strategies, and this carries over into my offline pilots.

 

Bottom line, I shoot down lots of planes and get shot down a lot (SOMETIMES because of the lag, but lots because the other guy just flew better or had better strategies). And it's a blast!

 

But I'll second as well Gary's and Aussie's suggestion that playing missions online is the most fun I've had. Lag is much less of a concern there. I can hold formation very tightly and have done very well against ground targets and enemy AI. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I don't really notice any difference in flight behavior of AI while in MP. Perhaps they are spawned on my machine? I don't know, but I don't get any of the lag foolishness I see in dogfights against live opponents. And flying in a group with live pilots against an AI enemy is perhaps the most fun I've had with this sim. It's a close call, and less immersive than offline campaigns, but flying with live teammates adds something special.

 

So, for me, even with serious lag, dogfighting is fun. It's just a different way to enjoy this sim. But online missions are what will keep me coming back to MP.

 

BTW, I think it may be a few weeks before any dogfight league gets going. I know Stump has his hands full as a result of some changes in the real world.

Edited March 21, 2009 by griphos

[sitting_duck 3]

Ok..so i take it the suggestion is to try and run this thru a mission format, rather than dogfitght..

 

Its a great suggestion, cause I have always said the missions with tons of aircraft/ground targets and the like play better than dogfights.

 

There are advantages of a dogfight format, in that if it is necessary to have more than one "dual" in the same game, and its a mission, everyone has to wait until the last dual is won.

 

griphos...next time you are going to join mp dogfight, go to your cfs3config, and in the overrides, select disable scenery....that might improve your plane a bit.

 

or...move back to civilization..

Edited March 21, 2009 by sitting_duck

[GaryR 0]

I'll add that I laugh my butt off the whole time we do dogfights so don't think for one second I don't have a great time!! I just think, due to the net code in this game and the internet, that a ladder is going to be less than accurate to show who is flying the best.. Too bad the old Aces High "Dawn of Aces" isn't available. Used to be able to do up to 8 plane dogfights free of charge and the netcode was the best in existence... Not the same as P3 but fun and would be an accurate ladder format.

[griphos 0]

or...move back to civilization..

 

I can't do either of those Duck. I'd hate to fly without all that pretty scenery, and there's no way I'm moving back to civilization!

 

Edited March 22, 2009 by griphos

[von Baur 54]

Count me in!! Although, I'm on the same setup as Griphos and it's caused some serious lag and warpage on several of the Richtofen's Skies servers. But if my connection is up to it, so am I.

 

A thought on the format:

In RS, one of the players set up team furball matches...kind of a "Last Team Standing" thing. Varying points were awarded for credited kills, forced down, landing safely (i.e. in friendly territory) and returning safely to home base. These were played both with and without labels and with friendly fire turned on and turned off. Murph had a couple of similar rounds with his Misfits squad's "Saturday Night Fights" in Red Baron. An added boost to making it all about skill was to have same-plane matches, in which everyone flew one type. Adnittedly, that would pretty much require using labels if it's a team game, but in an every-man-for-himself furball scenario they could be left off.

[PrairieFlcn 0]

I'd like to join you but I have to get my second internet connection up and running first. It might be a week or two. A year or two ago or so I used to fly with PilotsDen and his group and really liked it. I like the team missions, although I'm not that into bombing and strafing.

 

Mainly I like the dogfights. I've experienced all the downsides that have been mentioned in this thread. The lag etc. I remember the first time I was shot down by a plane flying below me in the opposite direction (Whaaa?). But if we can find folks with systems that are reasonably matched it's a lot of fun. I don't take this stuff personally so it doesn't matter how often I get shot down. The real fun is just experiencing the unpredictable. Sometimes the enemy AI can get very predictable. Live EA are full of surprises. I'd like to try team dogfights. Haven't done it yet but I think it would be very challenging.