Different aspects of approaching the sim in campaign

[Jammer28 0]

Just wondering on the different aspects of approaching the sim in campaign. What criteria do you use for choosing your rank, squadron (jasta), start date, etc.

What’s more important to you, completing the mission or looking for EA’s?

For me the mission always comes first. If I’m flight leader and on an airfield, railyard or balloon attack, I will try my best to make it to the target and complete the mission. Even if I come across a smaller flight of EA’s I will avoid them if possible. When flying escort I will fight only when EA’s engage my flight. Of course when flying patrols, anything goes!

[Siggi 10]

As with you, on patrol anything goes. Point-attacks I'll fly to the target, aim a few shots down from high altitude, then go on patrol. Attacking ground targets is absolute suicide and I won't do it any more apart from the token shots from high altitude. If they want to court-martial me they'll have to catch me at it first. My flight members don't have any complaints, or at least they haven't reported me yet.

[tttiger 0]

As with you, on patrol anything goes. Point-attacks I'll fly to the target, aim a few shots down from high altitude, then go on patrol. Attacking ground targets is absolute suicide and I won't do it any more apart from the token shots from high altitude. If they want to court-martial me they'll have to catch me at it first. My flight members don't have any complaints, or at least they haven't reported me yet.

 

 

LOL: Mr. Super-Realism-Dead-Is-Dead and he won't attack ground targets! So much for DID..."aim a few shots from high altitide."

 

Ground attack was very much part of a fighter pilot's job, especially during the 1918 German offensive.

 

And, to me, the mission always comes first. Then I can go hunting....

 

Try some ground attacks with bombs or -- even better -- rockets. You can take out an entire row of hangars in one pass with those rockets. Nasty!

 

As long as you just make one pass and then get out of Dodge climbing in a tight circle (or as soon as you release your ordnance hit waypoint and warp to the next one) damage is not severe.

 

If you come back for a second pass they will be waiting for you and they will kill you. That's how it really is done: One pass and out!

 

I've only lost one plane in what must be more than a hundred ground attacks.

 

The only one I won't do is attacking a front line target because, frankly, there is no target visible. I've never destroyed anything attacking the trenches.

 

As for EA, Boelcke is Da Man! Only fight when you have an advantage: Numbers and altitude (Mannock, too: "Always From Above!"). Otherwise, run away!

 

As for rank, etc., I always fly as a real historical figure in the same unit during the same dates as the real pilot and I always fly as flight leader.

 

 

ttt

Edited March 19, 2009 by tttiger

[griphos 0]

Now, Siggi, is that any way to win a war?!

 

Tttiger: (or as soon as you release your ordnance hit waypoint and warp to the next one)

 

Yeah, super realistic, that! I must not have the optional historical warp drive installed on my crate!

 

Jammer, I'm like you. I take the mission seriously. Protestant work ethic and all that. I will jump a significantly smaller group of EA in route. But in campaign, I've only been assigned a ground target for my actual flight just once. And there was no enemy encountered on the whole long flight on that one. I've done a lot of ground target attacks in MP, and I've found that I can avoid enemy MG well enough by staying low after dropping ordinance and cross controlling. Throws their aim off. I will faithfully guard my bomber flights on escort missions, even ignoring EA that don't jump us; though, as often as not, they get to the area and circle a bit and then head home. I guess they couldn't find the target. The more I fly this sim, the more it's about survival for me. I've started to get very invested in these pilots I create, and I want them to do well, but mostly I want them to live. It's gotten to be about the farthest thing possible from an arcade shoot-em-up for me, and that has made it immensely more enjoyable.

Edited March 19, 2009 by griphos

[Bullethead 12]

When picking my country, timeframe, and unit, I always go for areas where the action is hot (over whatever major land battles are then in progress) and fly for the side at the disadvantage. By disadvantage I mean inferior planes and usually the burden of the offensive. A short life and a merry :).

 

When picking my rank, I've gone to being the 2nd highest to start with. This is because, after much pain and suffering, I've decided that my AI squaddies can't be trusted to lead the flight. This really isn't a knock on the game, because in real life it's well-known that the greatest threat to ground-gaining forces is a lieutenant with a map and a compass Why should I expect AI ossifers to be any better? But I had enough of that in real life and this is MY entertainment, so I want to go where I think we should. Hence, I have "player always leads" set, and play as the 2nd highest rank to have a realistic justification for this. Besides, I personally have a lot of flight experience, so should have a pretty good rank. I role-play this by assuming that my character is on his 2nd or 3rd tour of duty, having picked up his rank and experience on quiet fronts elsewhere.

 

I usually try to accomplish my given mission and I almost never try to get an easier alternate target. The only real exceptions are "scramble" missions, which I NEVER do because they're unrealistic, and if the target is too far away for the fuel I can carry. This said, the longer I survive, the more cynical my characters always get, so they tend to abandon misisons with less justification. They think, "Go ahead and court-martial me! What are you going to do to punish me? Send me to combat?"

 

My primary objective is always to survive as long as possible, and to keep as many of my AI squaddies alive as possible. I don't care about scoring kills and in fact have had many enjoyable careers where I shot down nothing at all. It's just fun "being there".

[Siggi 10]

LOL: Mr. Super-Realism-Dead-Is-Dead and he won't attack ground targets! So much for DID..."aim a few shots from high altitide."

 

Ground attack was very much part of a fighter pilot's job, especially during the 1918 German offensive.

 

And, to me, the mission always comes first. Then I can go hunting....

 

Try some ground attacks with bombs or -- even better -- rockets. You can take out an entire row of hangars in one pass with those rockets. Nasty!

 

As long as you just make one pass and then get out of Dodge climbing in a tight circle (or as soon as you release your ordnance hit waypoint and warp to the next one) damage is not severe.

 

If you come back for a second pass they will be waiting for you and they will kill you. That's how it really is done: One pass and out!

 

I've only lost one plane in what must be more than a hundred ground attacks.

 

The only one I won't do is attacking a front line target because, frankly, there is no target visible. I've never destroyed anything attacking the trenches.

 

As for rank, etc., I always fly as a real historical figure in the same unit during the same dates as the real pilot and I always fly as flight leader.

 

 

ttt

 

Damn right it's super-realism, I value my ass and I'm not getting it shot off if I can help it. My chaps are free to swoop down while I provide...ahem...top cover. If they decline they get no censure from me. We're fighter pilots, not mud movers. If HQ wants mud moved they can send the right tools for the right job (2-seaters).

[tttiger 0]

Damn right it's super-realism, I value my ass and I'm not getting it shot off if I can help it. My chaps are free to swoop down while I provide...ahem...top cover. If they decline they get no censure from me. We're fighter pilots, not mud movers. If HQ wants mud moved they can send the right tools for the right job (2-seaters).

 

LOL, Siggi, I'm still rolling on the floor laughing! This is the guy who puts up a Leader Board and writes the rules for it?

 

If you want 2-seaters, both the Sop Strutter and the F2b are excellent fighters (that tail gunner is mean!) and carry very respectable bomb loads. But you get bombs and/or rockets on most of the fighters (except the Tripe). So, yes, you are equipped for ground attack.

 

Too funny!

 

ttt

[griphos 0]

Well, I'm just part of the way through Kennett's The First Air War, so I'm no expert, but it seems that the bombs and rockets in OFF are more of a anachronistic artifact of CFS3 than they are realistic models of WW1 air combat options. The rockets seem far too powerful and accurate in the sim, which, I suspect, is because of the CFS3 engine. I don't think there was much successful bombing of any sort at all throughout the war, and certainly not early in the war. I'm happy to be corrected, but it seems to me that sticking to aerial combat missions even when ordered to attack a ground target has a good argument for "realistic."

[tttiger 0]

Well, I'm just part of the way through Kennett's The First Air War, so I'm no expert, but it seems that the bombs and rockets in OFF are more of a anachronistic artifact of CFS3 than they are realistic models of WW1 air combat options. The rockets seem far too powerful and accurate in the sim, which, I suspect, is because of the CFS3 engine. I don't think there was much successful bombing of any sort at all throughout the war, and certainly not early in the war. I'm happy to be corrected, but it seems to me that sticking to aerial combat missions even when ordered to attack a ground target has a good argument for "realistic."

 

Of course they are too powerful. But NEVER say THAT in public! Someone might change them!

 

In real life, as far as I can recall, it's true not a single train or rail yard ever was damaged in a bombing attack in WWI.

 

The bombs and rockets were limited by weight.

 

But, hey, if they give us HVARs for rockets, I'm gonna use 'em. You get some very big explosions!

 

As far as warping away from a target, I'm only saying you CAN do it (unless there are enemy planes around and there often are). Actually, I almost never do, because I like to hang around and look at the mess I just made out of some hangars or barracks (rockets take those out, too).

 

No, I'm not one of the hairy-chested DiD crowd. I fly with labels on for my ancient Vietnam-era eyes and I know from riding in many helicopter cockpits I can see and identify other aircraft much farther away than the 1 mile at which the labels turn red or blue. I am not the one who brags on how "real" he flies.

 

ttt

Edited March 19, 2009 by tttiger

[Siggi 10]

LOL, Siggi, I'm still rolling on the floor laughing! This is the guy who puts up a Leader Board and writes the rules for it?

 

If you want 2-seaters, both the Sop Strutter and the F2b are excellent fighters (that tail gunner is mean!) and carry very respectable bomb loads. But you get bombs and/or rockets on most of the fighters (except the Tripe). So, yes, you are equipped for ground attack.

 

Too funny!

 

ttt

 

If you think no combatant ever avoided targets he deemed too dangerous you don't know much about warfare. The history books are full of such accounts. I've just been reading a book my brother gave me, regarding air-to-ground attacks over Normandy, and a large number of Typhoon pilots simply pointed their noses in the general direction of the enemy, fired all their rockets and then got out of it. If there was no flak they got rid of some cannon-rounds too.

 

You have a ball with the hollywood-style tactics, I'll carry on doing my utmost to stay alive.

[zoomzoom 2]

Hehe, Siggi, your "mud moving" speech is a work of art. Well put!! I'm still chuckling myself. Which to me, begs the question, when do you get bombs attached to the fighter AC? I have seen rockets, but never droppable ordnance. It would be nice to see that for some of the German AND allied fighter craft......I mean I'm with you Sig, if they want me to go hit a ground target, lets carry something appropriate that can do some real damage, not pepper it with pea shooters.

 

ZZ.

 

Perhaps in a future "phase". Dont gets me wrong tho' I is juss fine with things like dey is! I aaaaaaiiiiint complainin.

[zoomzoom 2]

True, true. But I'd be happy to attack ground positions with a couple 25lb Coopers, or the German Equivalent strapped onto a Fokker or ALBITRI. It would definately "get that mud moving a bit more", to use a previously crafted phrase.

 

 

 

ZZ.

 

PS. Of course if this is historically innaccurate, forget it all.

[cptroyce 0]

I mentioned this in another thread but perhaps it is appropo here also.

 

If you want to try and add realism and the "element of 1 life survival" to the sim, try the following:

 

Make a promise to yourself that you won't and don't break (need some self control here), that if your pilot gets

shot down/killed you will not fly OFF again for a fixed period of time; two-three days a week, whatever will make you "unhappy".

 

Stick to your agreement with yourself.

 

I did this back in my heavy flying Campaign days of RB. If you know that you can't fly your favorite sim for a penalty time period, your flying tactics, approach to the Campaign and enjoyment of the sim, take on a whole new level IMO.

 

This may be too drastic for most, but for those that really like the realism factor..this sort of adds a missing element.

 

Regards,

Royce

[Olham 164]

I start in Jastas, were the plane type I want comes earliest.

For the Albatros D II (in fact it would correctly be a D I there), that was Jasta 2, in September 1916.

So I have an equal or superiour fighter - for the fun factor!

My rank is mostly Leutnant - just sounds best (Lol!)

 

I had to laugh all the way through the post - how Siggi got bashed for making differing decisions.

As a German, I don't get rockets. And without rockets or bombs, I won't do ground attacks.

But as they are ordered, we go there, I mark the target, and order: Attack to my wings. I cover the attack.

I let them do just one strafe and then call them back, and off we are.

 

And for the evangelic work ethic - this ain't work - it's war. When I'm the flight leader, I take EVERY chance to

get envolved in a fight with fighters FIRST - arhrrm! I mean, we always get attacked by someone from somewere.

They may lurk in a very distance. But I KNOW, they will come after us - so I better fly right there to them first (Lol!)

 

I'm a fighter pilot. They didn't make me Flight lead for nothing. I must have deserved it. And as long as I'm the leader,

I will fight this war my way. (My wings have never complained, and they collected quite some nice kills, too.)

[Todt Von Oben 0]

As it was in RB3D, so it is in OFF/BHAH: variety is the spice of life.

 

Sometimes I've started out on the earliest possible date and the lowest possible rank and tried to survive till the Armistace, rising in the ranks meritoriously, and seeing how many kills I can amass.

 

But it's often hard to last long enough to get leadership experience that way, so sometimes I start off as the boss.

 

Sometimes I pick the time and place that will give me the hottest action and airplane.

 

Sometimes I fly to survive. Othertimes I just want to see how much I can get away with. (I think it's like windsurfing: you can't get good by playing it safe and trying to stay dry. You've got to hang it out on the ragged edge and crash a lot before you really get nimble.)

 

I've had the bad habit of throwing the mission aside if I see a target of opportunity. That's gotten me killed quite a few times.

 

Lately I've been setting myself up to get flamed, just so I could screen-grab the action.

 

Still finding new ways to enjoy the game.

 

Prost!

 

TvO

[tttiger 0]

If you think no combatant ever avoided targets he deemed too dangerous you don't know much about warfare. The history books are full of such accounts. I've just been reading a book my brother gave me, regarding air-to-ground attacks over Normandy, and a large number of Typhoon pilots simply pointed their noses in the general direction of the enemy, fired all their rockets and then got out of it. If there was no flak they got rid of some cannon-rounds too.

 

You have a ball with the hollywood-style tactics, I'll carry on doing my utmost to stay alive.

 

Siggi,

 

I spent 28 years in the US Army and served in both Vietnam and Desert Storm, the former as a company commander and the latter as a battalion commander.

 

I guarantee that if you were under my command and willfully disobeyed a direct order to conduct a lawful mission, you would still be sitting in prison (if your buddies didn't shoot you first right on the spot).

 

I'm well aware pilots did and do dump ord when they can't find targets, mainly because it's too dangerous to try to land with it hanging under their wings. Happened all the time in Vietnam.

 

At the same time, I never had a pilot refuse to conduct an air strike when I called them in.

 

I have an audio tape I wish you could hear: A FAC (forward air controller) calling in air strikes on VC in a tree line. He had Army and Marine helicopters and Air Force and Navy fighter-bombers stacked up above him waiting their turn to attack.

 

My uncle was a P47 pilot flying close air support (ground targets) with the 9th Air Force in Europe from D-Day to the end of the war. I used to know many of his fighter group buddies from reunions. These guys specialized in tank busting and locomotive busting. I've seen the wing camera pictures. Very hairy stuff. I can't imagine any of those guys dumping their bombs or rockets to avoid striking a difficult target. Ever.

 

I do "know much about warfare" and not from any books my brother loaned me. Nor from Hollywood.

 

Hey, we can all fly this sim any way we want to (one of the benefits of flying off line).

 

Just don't set yourself up as the guru of "realism" when what you're flying isn't realistic at all.

 

Out here.

 

ttt

[+MK2 12]

Just wondering on the different aspects of approaching the sim in campaign. What criteria do you use for choosing your rank, squadron (jasta), start date, etc.

What’s more important to you, completing the mission or looking for EA’s?

For me the mission always comes first. If I’m flight leader and on an airfield, railyard or balloon attack, I will try my best to make it to the target and complete the mission. Even if I come across a smaller flight of EA’s I will avoid them if possible. When flying escort I will fight only when EA’s engage my flight. Of course when flying patrols, anything goes!

 

 

I like to make myself at least a Captain because I like ot lead the flight and see that as more realistic because of the Rank.

 

I enjoy the period of 1918 so I tend to play the Yanks specifically the 94th aero squadron.

 

That being said I try Germans, French and British as well and follow a similar pattern.

 

 

I like the SPAD and the DR1 so I tend ot focus on those planes. I will try the Camel and SE5a soon ...

[Olham 164]

Hi, MK2 - if you like the SPAD, you might like the D VII more than the Dr.1? Tried it?

[catch 81]

In real life, as far as I can recall, it's true not a single train or rail yard ever was damaged in a bombing attack in WWI.

 

The bombs and rockets were limited by weight.

 

A rather sweeping statement old boy and a false one tiger.

[Siggi 10]

Siggi,

 

I spent 28 years in the US Army and served in both Vietnam and Desert Storm, the former as a company commander and the latter as a battalion commander.

 

I guarantee that if you were under my command and willfully disobeyed a direct order to conduct a lawful mission, you would still be sitting in prison (if your buddies didn't shoot you first right on the spot).

 

I'm well aware pilots did and do dump ord when they can't find targets, mainly because it's too dangerous to try to land with it hanging under their wings. Happened all the time in Vietnam.

 

At the same time, I never had a pilot refuse to conduct an air strike when I called them in.

 

I have an audio tape I wish you could hear: A FAC (forward air controller) calling in air strikes on VC in a tree line. He had Army and Marine helicopters and Air Force and Navy fighter-bombers stacked up above him waiting their turn to attack.

 

My uncle was a P47 pilot flying close air support (ground targets) with the 9th Air Force in Europe from D-Day to the end of the war. I used to know many of his fighter group buddies from reunions. These guys specialized in tank busting and locomotive busting. I've seen the wing camera pictures. Very hairy stuff. I can't imagine any of those guys dumping their bombs or rockets to avoid striking a difficult target. Ever.

 

I do "know much about warfare" and not from any books my brother loaned me. Nor from Hollywood.

 

Hey, we can all fly this sim any way we want to (one of the benefits of flying off line).

 

Just don't set yourself up as the guru of "realism" when what you're flying isn't realistic at all.

 

Out here.

 

ttt

 

I shan't bore you with my war stories. Suffice to say I was at the sharp end, getting my hands dirty, not sitting on my fat arse back in some HQ bunker forcing young conscripted lads to go get themselves shot to ribbons over some political 'domino-theory' crock of horse manure so I could get an extra pip on my shoulder. Hollywood, eh? Talk to me about "realism" matey...through a pair of binoculars was it?

 

Tell it to Capt Winters.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Siggi

[Olham 164]

Hey, Siggi and tttiger - maybe you two are more similar than you both think.

At least you both seem to be of similar temper.

So you both have seen real fighting - and now choose different behaviour here.

Nothing wrong with that, I'd say.

 

I could even imagine, that both ways have advantages and disadvantages. I said it somewere before,

and perhaps Winder or Pol could clear it up:

I suppose, that your going up in ranks is faster, when you execute your orders best possible.

And your kill tally will go up faster, when you more often decide to mess with enemy fighters.

 

For me, both didn't get very far though: I haven't yet survived more than 5 missions (had to reset the

sim and restart all pilots after last patch). But I won't give up...

[Siggi 10]

Hey, Siggi and tttiger - maybe you two are more similar than you both think.

At least you both seem to be of similar temper.

So you both have seen real fighting - and now choose different behaviour here.

Nothing wrong with that, I'd say.

 

I could even imagine, that both ways have advantages and disadvantages. I said it somewere before,

and perhaps Winder or Pol could clear it up:

I suppose, that your going up in ranks is faster, when you execute your orders best possible.

And your kill tally will go up faster, when you more often decide to mess with enemy fighters.

 

For me, both didn't get very far though: I haven't yet survived more than 5 missions (had to reset the

sim and restart all pilots after last patch). But I won't give up...

 

You bet we can choose different behaviour here. It's a game, with no career-officer just itching to put into the stockade anyone who fails to offer up his limbs or life for the sake of an extra pip on his shoulder. I've seen more than my fair share of that kind of amoral degeneracy. The meat and potatoes of just about any military system you'd care to mention.

 

How was it once famously put...? "Lions led by donkeys." I prefer my version...lions led by hyenas.

[catch 81]

Deja vu .... zzzzzz

[Ras 0]

Siggi,

 

I spent 28 years in the US Army and served in both Vietnam and Desert Storm, the former as a company commander and the latter as a battalion commander.

 

I guarantee that if you were under my command and willfully disobeyed a direct order to conduct a lawful mission, you would still be sitting in prison (if your buddies didn't shoot you first right on the spot).

 

I'm well aware pilots did and do dump ord when they can't find targets, mainly because it's too dangerous to try to land with it hanging under their wings. Happened all the time in Vietnam.

 

At the same time, I never had a pilot refuse to conduct an air strike when I called them in.

 

I have an audio tape I wish you could hear: A FAC (forward air controller) calling in air strikes on VC in a tree line. He had Army and Marine helicopters and Air Force and Navy fighter-bombers stacked up above him waiting their turn to attack.

 

My uncle was a P47 pilot flying close air support (ground targets) with the 9th Air Force in Europe from D-Day to the end of the war. I used to know many of his fighter group buddies from reunions. These guys specialized in tank busting and locomotive busting. I've seen the wing camera pictures. Very hairy stuff. I can't imagine any of those guys dumping their bombs or rockets to avoid striking a difficult target. Ever.

 

I do "know much about warfare" and not from any books my brother loaned me. Nor from Hollywood.

 

Hey, we can all fly this sim any way we want to (one of the benefits of flying off line).

 

Just don't set yourself up as the guru of "realism" when what you're flying isn't realistic at all.

 

Out here.

 

ttt

 

Well said, Sir: I never served in Vietnam but was "other" places in 67-71. Thanks for your service and keeping your cool

[themightysrc 5]

As someone who's never served in any armed forces, or ever wanted to, may I point out to people here that we're playing a game?

 

Tiger and Sig - please play nicely: the World's quite full enough of people getting cross with each other without two very intelligent blokes with very similar interests falling out over what is, after all, a figment of our powers of imagination.

 

Peace.