RB3D or OFF3

[Ronbo 0]

... an aces paint shop of sorts? In RB, as an ace/squadron leader I can choose my own paint scheme from a list or import/export and create my own colors?

 

Im still on the fence, I want OFF3, but would it completely replace my RB3D (FCJ) with everything and more?

 

 

Ronbo

 

(JG1Ronbo, J1Ronbo)

[Olham 164]

Hey, Ronbo

All former RB3D players, I read posts of here, are overwhelmed with OFF "Between Heaven and Hell";

and so am I. But it will feel much more realistic, and therefor harder to survive (unless you choose easy settings).

I can't think of anything else, I'd like to fly more (except, perhaps, Oleg's "Battle of Britain" - if it ever appears).

 

About the skins: it is unbelievable, how many skins I could choose from. I'm flying German planes mostly,

and the team did ALL the skins of the aces, very beautifully. You can choose any of these for your own plane,

if you like.

And, yes, you can create your own skin, but it's more work, than in a pre-configured "ace paint shop".

You have to have Photoshop or another program, to work on bitmaps with. But some of us did many own skins already.

Best see our sticky thread about skinnig (it has an extra place, you'll find it on the forum's first page/list of content)

Edited March 22, 2009 by Olham

[rabu 9]

Hey, Ronbo

All former RB3D players, I read posts of here, are overwhelmed with OFF "Between Heaven and Hell";

and so am I. But it will feel much more realistic, and therefor harder to survive (unless you choose easy settings).

I can't think of anything else, I'd like to fly more (except, perhaps, Oleg's "Battle of Britain" - if it ever appears).

 

About the skins: it is unbelievable, how many skins I could choose from. I'm flying German planes mostly,

and the team did ALL the skins of the aces, very beautifully. You can choose any of these for your own plane,

if you like.

And, yes, you can create your own skin, but it's more work, than in a pre-configured "ace paint shop".

You have to have Photoshop or another program, to work on bitmaps with. But some of us did many own skins already.

Best see our sticky thread about skinnig (it has an extra place, you'll find it on the forum's first page/list of content)

 

 

We've come a LOOOOONG way from RB days. The skin editor in RB was redumentary at best, you still had to use a good graphics editor to do anything decent, and then you were so limited by the skin resolution file size and limited palette, it was one huge pain.. I remember, as I created a skins, but mainly worked on the terrain back then for the 2d and then 3d versions On-The-Edge, etc.

 

For anyone really wanting to do skins in OFF, it isn't very difficult to make some easy additons of logos, changes of color, etc., using any rudimentary editor and the free dds conversion utilities and viewers available on the Navida site and elsewhere. A lot easier then it was in RB.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

RB3d RIP

[Ronbo 0]

As far as my machine goes, no it will probably not handle it at 1.8Ghz, 1.2g ram and 256mb nvidia card. i will still try it and when money is available, I had already planned on updating to a super gaming system once i figure out the new terms for the chipsets and mobo's. something around 2.6 to 3.0 or so and 3g ram on an xp machine i hope. It was more for RoF, as well as running my other sims like Il2 and WOx series to thier full potential but Id rather have xp than vista. Not sure when i can upgrade my laptop to handle it for roadtrips.

 

hi rabu, nice to see you working on bringing back the good ole days.

 

If skinning is even easier ( I use paint shop pro 5) then thats a plus as i just couldnt get the hang of the right palletes to show up in FCJ. Im not worried about it now, but i can at least swap parts on my plane to make it unique like in Rb1, but more colorful. Im not sure how OFF3/cfs3 does the skins, im sure its all on one bitmap?

 

I too have read all that i can, im just trying to get a feel for if its worth dumping RB3d. Basically, Im looking at if OFF3 has all that RB has (minus aces paint) and more. Sounds like QC and maybe mission builder is much better, campaign sounds the same but better, graphics and FM/DM better, planes are the same with a few additionals like 2 seaters (Im a scout pilot, but its always fun to experiment) etc ?

 

Thanks for the replies

 

Ronbo

[themightysrc 5]

"I too have read all that i can, im just trying to get a feel for if its worth dumping RB3d. Basically, Im looking at if OFF3 has all that RB has (minus aces paint) and more. Sounds like QC and maybe mission builder is much better, campaign sounds the same but better, graphics and FM/DM better, planes are the same with a few additionals like 2 seaters (Im a scout pilot, but its always fun to experiment) etc ?"

 

I wouldn't dump RB3D. I still play and enjoy it, as it's actually OFF:BH&H lite, so to speak, but still pretty immersing in the experience. My only real problem with BH&H is that my system - as people here probably already know - isn't up to running BH&H in its full glory, so I can't really participate in the threads that mention the extreme detail, how the commandant's monocle has the exact correct glint for 1917, how the smell of the dope on a Camel's wing is just right, etc.

 

If I were you, I'd keep on with RB3D, and when you do get your new machine, make sure you take RB3D onto it, fully patched and FCJed, as well as BH&H. More options, more fun.

[Hellshade 110]

No, there isn't a built in paint shop for Over Flanders Fields. You would be 'stuck' choosing from one of the 3,500 historically accurate, beautifully rendered paint schemes that comes with the game, unless you wanted to break out Photoshop and create one yourself in there. OFF P3 isn't "perfect", but for historical accuracy and high quality flight sim experience, you really can't go wrong with it unless you just plain don't have the gear to run it. If you plan to buy it, may I suggest switching to 16xQ antialiasing mode. It improves the quality of the picture tremendously and even seems to help it run faster and smoother. Let us know what you think once you get it.

 

Hellshade

[Ronbo 0]

No, there isn't a built in paint shop for Over Flanders Fields. You would be 'stuck' choosing from one of the 3,500 historically accurate, beautifully rendered paint schemes that comes with the game, unless you wanted to break out Photoshop and create one yourself in there. ....... Let us know what you think once you get it.

 

Hellshade

 

 

I believe I will do a comparision, given time, for those that are like me. If I can choose, in game? , an aces scheme then that works for me. And if its easier to paint, then cool.

 

What about the rest of the sim? RB3d brought to 'modern' look plus some features? I guess thats what Im really asking.

 

Not sure what RoF will bring, depends on how much they want for add on planes.

[cptroyce 0]

Ronbo- Just an opinion..I played RB for years (it was my first real PC sim/game foray and I loved it). But if I can make a personal analogy..RB=the great days of high school and OFF = graduate school.

 

If you purchase OFF and even upgrade your rig..take the cost and amoritize it over 5 years..perhaps then it may not look as daunting.

 

Whatever you decide, you wil absolutely love OFF. It concentrates on historical "realism" and hence unpredictable and challenging..what else do we hope for from a WW1 flight sim? ;>)

 

Regards,

Royce

Edited March 22, 2009 by cptroyce

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Welcome to OFF, Ronbo! Glad to see another RB3d'er from the Delphi forums flying around here!

 

IMO, you will not be disappointed with BHaH. In most respects it substantially improves upon RB.

Graphics: Much superior than RB. Clouds, terrain, airplane skins, effects are all improved. Wind is modeled! Do NOT fly into thick clouds, unless it is an emergency!

 

Damage model: Very good. You can see parts flying off of planes, holes in wings, and whole sections blown off! Fires are modeled (perhaps not as pretty as some of the RB mods, but still very nice). You can also blow up stuff on the ground! Trucks and trains actually move. And troops!

 

Flight model: I think you will be pleased. More variety in BHaH. Try surviving flying an Eindecker! Torque and gyro is modeled. Not sure about propwash! So, Camels and Dr I's are quirky and tricky to fly. Spads are bricks and Nieuports are nimble but fragile.

 

AI:No comparison! AI is much better in BHaH, both enemy planes and wingmen. Wingmen will generally follow your commands (rejoin, attack, split, help me) and the enemy gives you a better fight and is more unpredictable. Of course, the AI is still not perfect, particularly at low level attacks, but OBD is still working on it.

 

Campaign: Comparable or somewhat better than RB. Dynamic campaigns, with moving fronts! Wide variety of historically accurate missions. Flyable two-seaters! Drawbacks: not easy to transfer squadrons (user must manually change files), not all aircraft modeled (especially early war French scouts and two-seaters. No heavy bombers. These may be addressed in a subsequent update).

 

Best of all, BHaH flys right out of the box, with no additional modpacks or hardware kludges or work-arounds. You may have to fiddle a bit with your graphics settings, however. In general, I think OFF works a little better with Nvidea cards, but your mileage may vary.

 

<S!> Propwash

[Ronbo 0]

S! Prop,

I just ordered OFF3 on the site. Will see what it does. Thanks for the review. Thats the kind of info i need. I will probably keep RB on the drive, but will see....

 

What makes me feel better about OFF3 is the team of ww1 aficianados that are on it. Much better than most companies as they know what we want in realism, within design limits... much like the Dynamix of old...

Edited March 23, 2009 by Ronbo

[OvS 8]

I believe I will do a comparision, given time, for those that are like me. If I can choose, in game? , an aces scheme then that works for me. And if its easier to paint, then cool.

 

What about the rest of the sim? RB3d brought to 'modern' look plus some features? I guess thats what Im really asking.

 

Not sure what RoF will bring, depends on how much they want for add on planes.

 

Ronbo,

 

Hello and welcome to the forum and OFF BHaH. Please, by all means crank up the now ancient Full Canvas Jacket, and compare it to the Modern OFF BHaH. What you will see will leave you in awe for months. You will quickly note about BHaH:

 

The immersion - something we could never get out of RB3D. Sure the sky was busy, but it died there. No war down below.

 

The detail level - many and I mean MANY of the skins are historically accurate, and based on factual information provided to use from Dan-San Abbott, Bob Pearson, and several other historian/WWI artists (and our beloved Shredward as well).

 

The value of replay - this is where the pay-off is. The dynamic missions, the detail... everything all bundled-up into one huge pacakage. Nothing is scripted, you have NO IDEA what will happen next. If you loved RB3D... you will never leave your house once you have OFF running on a solid, updated PC. It's smooth as silk at 40+ FPS on my rig and near life-like.

 

Also - with RB3D... trees? In OFF there are thousands all around you and you can use them to hide behind in a low-level dog-fight.

 

I don't know... I could never do it, but if you must, go ahead and make the comparison. Also, many of Kessler's skins were artist renditions of what he believed to be correct, as stated by Kessler himself years ago. We did some of that too, but not in bulk ... only to fill small voids, so what you are about to see may very well be the first of it's kind to actually offer users a taste of what WWI may have looked like.

 

As far as painting your own plane... hopefully WM can figure a way to do this down the road, but we don't offer that option yet. Believe me, it will be the last thing on your mind for a while anyway.

 

All the best....

 

OvS

 

Oh.... one more thing... If you recognize my 'handle'... yup, it's me... the same OvS that created the Hell's Angels series of mods for RB3D... so I know what I am talking about. I personally gave my 110% attention to accomplish all I could never accomplish in RB3D with the German side of the war in OFF. You have never seen the German Imperial Air Force like this before. The 3 guys (myself included) on the Team that created the German skins were all insane about the detail levels... we really pushed it, and it shows.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Ronbo,

 

You have never seen the German Imperial Air Force like this before. The 3 guys (myself included) on the Team that created the German skins were all insane about the detail levels... we really pushed it, and it shows.

 

 

I hope and Trust that the fact we have a skinning community going in OFF does not detract in any way from the amazing quality and variety of skins made by the OFF team, which are stunning to say the least!

 

Us amatuers who indulge ourselves with our oft bizzare creations, can only further extend our gratitude to the team, and hope we don't insult them with our creations.

 

I don't post any of my skins for public download (not that anyone would want any!) but it really does add something to our enjoyment of this remarkable piece of work

 

Simon

[Olham 164]

Total ditto to Simon, with brass band!

[Ronbo 0]

Oh.... one more thing... If you recognize my 'handle'... yup, it's me... the same OvS that created the Hell's Angels series of mods for RB3D... so I know what I am talking about. I personally gave my 110% attention to accomplish all I could never accomplish in RB3D with the German side of the war in OFF. You have never seen the German Imperial Air Force like this before. The 3 guys (myself included) on the Team that created the German skins were all insane about the detail levels... we really pushed it, and it shows.

 

OvS

 

As i mentioned earlier, I feel better as I know the OFF team has the skills and the information available to do it right. Most sims dont, and we are left with whats out there and most require mods to get it right.

 

My copy is supposed to be on the way, so i cant wait to check it out.

 

I know Kess may have taken liberties with the info he had available, (got into an arguement with a gent on delphi about correct Dr1 Jastas..) but i still think FCJ is an awesome product. And thats not because Kess was a good friend and squadmate of mine, but i thought he and the team brought RB3 up a level the way it should be.

 

i look forward to becoming apart of the OFF community. I just wish i had the time to keep track of the progress of OFF. but keeping aircraft flying and my family in real life has taken alot of it the past few years.... I may have more technical questions in the future, but i will reserve those to PM's to you, if you dont mind.

[BirdDogICT 3]

Ronbo,

 

I'm a little late to the party, but welcome to BHaH.

 

As an admirer of Kess, i.e.; long time player of Full Canvas Jacket, I think the best way to compare OFF vs FCJ is

 

FCJ=Fishbowl

BHaH=No Fishbowl

 

I started playing BHaH several months ago on my 3-year old Socket 939 machine, and I was so impressed by what the BHaH developers accomplished that I added an ATI 4870 and Track IR4 ($350+ investment). I'm running at 3.0MHz with DDR550 memory, and it meets the system requirements for an immersive, stutter-free experience, but just barely. You will need an up-to date PC to play BHaH.

 

I reinstalled RB3D with FCJ last week to see what I was missing with BHaH, and my answer was "Not a thing." I uninstalled FCJ and won't ever be tempted to look back. But it was fun while it lasted....

 

Cheers

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

And of course (God forbid) there is no law to say you can't play Red Baron and OFF!

 

I have FE / RB3d / SDOE WW1 and a miriad of other sims on my HDD

 

(Though, it has to be said, that although they're on there, I can't drag myself away from OFF for love or Money!!)

[OvS 8]

OvS

 

As i mentioned earlier, I feel better as I know the OFF team has the skills and the information available to do it right. Most sims dont, and we are left with whats out there and most require mods to get it right.

 

My copy is supposed to be on the way, so i cant wait to check it out.

 

I know Kess may have taken liberties with the info he had available, (got into an arguement with a gent on delphi about correct Dr1 Jastas..) but i still think FCJ is an awesome product. And thats not because Kess was a good friend and squadmate of mine, but i thought he and the team brought RB3 up a level the way it should be.

 

i look forward to becoming apart of the OFF community. I just wish i had the time to keep track of the progress of OFF. but keeping aircraft flying and my family in real life has taken alot of it the past few years.... I may have more technical questions in the future, but i will reserve those to PM's to you, if you dont mind.

 

Just for the record, let it be known that I am not taking a shot at anything Kessler did with FCJ, I am taking a shot at the engine of RB3D. For what Kessler, Pat Wilson, BvH and myself included did with that engine was an accomplishment in science. We pushed it further than the original developers ever meant it to be. But constraints of ace numbers, lack of good data and several other issues created more problems for us in a historical sense, than we could account for. There is nothing worse than being 'limited' on Aces, planes, mission types.. etc. With OFF, there is no limit. There is no 35 ace limit. Just the active German pilots (aces and normal pilots with data files) stand at well over 430. That left us miles of room to create hundreds of individual skins per plane type.

 

However, 8 years later... the net is full of vast resources, experts all over the place, better game technology and everything else we needed to make OFF the best it could be. So although there are limits to the CFS3 engine, the amount of action, immersion and atmosphere in OFF far outweigh them.

 

As far as historic accuracy, anything that was created from an artists rendition was done within circa. Nothing extreme, nothing over the top. I actually consulted with Jim Dietz on this very subject, and his words inspired me. Basically it came down to him saying that I needed to stand in front of the plane in 1917 and paint what it would have looked like based on the other profiles that you have studied. It made perfect sense. But even so, we had to take everything anyone offered with a 'grain of salt'. It's all based on what someone believes to be correct based piecing together written accounts and starring at B/W photos.

 

I give you Ernst Udet's E.III as the best example. As it turns out, the modern consensus was that his bands were light blue and black, not red and black. Go figure.

 

I'm really looking forward to you having OFF in your hands, and hearing what you have to say about it once it's up and running. :)

 

All the best,

 

OvS

[OvS 8]

I started playing BHaH several months ago on my 3-year old Socket 939 machine, and I was so impressed by what the BHaH developers accomplished that I added an ATI 4870 and Track IR4 ($350+ investment). I'm running at 3.0MHz with DDR550 memory, and it meets the system requirements for an immersive, stutter-free experience, but just barely. You will need an up-to date PC to play BHaH.

 

 

Yes and no on this BirdDog, make sure you check-out the sticky posted in the Knowledge Base (the link is below) for some really good tweaks that many players are benefitting from. You can drop some of the scenery sliders and still have plenty of scenery to enjoy without the higher FPS cost.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38212

 

Have you looked into these yet? If not, give them a try.

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Yes and no on this BirdDog, make sure you check-out the sticky posted in the Knowledge Base (the link is below) for some really good tweaks that many players are benefitting from. You can drop some of the scenery sliders and still have plenty of scenery to enjoy without the higher FPS cost.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38212

 

Have you looked into these yet? If not, give them a try.

 

OvS

 

 

Link doesn't work OvS

[BirdDogICT 3]

Yes and no on this BirdDog, make sure you check-out the sticky posted in the Knowledge Base (the link is below) for some really good tweaks that many players are benefitting from. You can drop some of the scenery sliders and still have plenty of scenery to enjoy without the higher FPS cost.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38212

 

Have you looked into these yet? If not, give them a try.

 

OvS

 

Ovs,

 

Thanks for the advice. I've used the usual tweaks (http://www.overflandersfields.com/Tips.htm) with good success, and Sitting Duck, Interlocutor, Olham, uncleal, and I have a lenghty thread (http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=37750&hl=) on the best graphics settings with newer ATI graphics cards. I had some interesting problems getting BHaH graphics to behave with my system due to some funky CPU drivers and memory timings, but got them ironed out. As a frame of reference, my 939 socket rig is:

 

ASUS A8R-32MVP motherboard, 2GB Corsair PC4400Pro DDR memory, 512MB ATI HD4870 graphics card, Opteron 185 dual core processor overclocked to 3.0 GHz with XP SP3. I'm running game sliders at 354342 with 4X AA (Edge Filter) and 8X AF (through Catalyst 9.3) at 1600X1024 and excellent FPS (FRAPS shows average of 32 FPS in 10 plane furrballs over the runway). I run the AMD Fusion for Gaming utility before I play, increasing my available memory from 76% to 85% (sure makes a difference!!).

 

Terrain and Scenery are spectacular, and the plane details just blow me away. Plus, it's all smooth as a baby's bottom.

 

Cheers

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Well, I'll throw my two cents into this thread if you all don't mind. I recently built a new computer specifically to run OFF BHaH, (and any other new WW1 sims that get sorted out), and it was one of the best investments I've made in recent history. I also still have the box I built to run RB3D with a Voodoo 5500 card, and believe me I can push Red Baron and all its add-ons to the limit with that system. The difference between the two sims is really just a decade of advancements. They are both great, but RB3D is simply outdated, especially when compared to something like BHaH.

 

As to the painting issue, I don't see it as an issue at all since we already have the tools available to paint the OFF skins. I have been playing about with the free Paint.Net program I downloaded a while back and it works great for creating new skins. You just need to grab an existing skin file with the DXTBmp program and convert it so you can build new layers, and the sky's the limit from that point on.

 

I am completely enjoying OFF ! :yes:

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Siggi 10]

Well, I'll throw my two cents into this thread if you all don't mind. I recently built a new computer specifically to run OFF BHaH, (and any other new WW1 sims that get sorted out), and it was one of the best investments I've made in recent history. I also still have the box I built to run RB3D with a Voodoo 5500 card, and believe me I can push Red Baron and all its add-ons to the limit with that system. The difference between the two sims is really just a decade of advancements. They are both great, but RB3D is simply outdated, especially when compared to something like BHaH.

 

As to the painting issue, I don't see it as an issue at all since we already have the tools available to paint the OFF skins. I have been playing about with the free Paint.Net program I downloaded a while back and it works great for creating new skins. You just need to grab an existing skin file with the DXTBmp program and convert it so you can build new layers, and the sky's the limit from that point on.

 

I am completely enjoying OFF ! :yes:

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

I think the point about skins isn't that they can't be made, it's that one can't be assigned exclusively to the player in campaign-mode.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Siggi wrote:

I think the point about skins isn't that they can't be made, it's that one can't be assigned exclusively to the player in campaign-mode.

 

Well that's easy to fix Siggi, just fly lone wolf missions. Then you'll be the only one in the air with your colors.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Siggi 10]

Siggi wrote:

 

Well that's easy to fix Siggi, just fly lone wolf missions. Then you'll be the only one in the air with your colors.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

I'm more than happy with whatever colours I'm given. Which is pretty lucky, given the minging Halb I'm flying currently.