Flak in WoV

[+malibu43 142]

Guys, just a comment here. The YAP2 developers definitely got the flak effects right! I don't have any insight into exactly what they did, but for the purchase price alone it more than provides at least for me the "flak immersion factor." When the flak guns start opening up on me, I literally have a sense of panic as I can watch them getting closer and closer especially if I do not perform evasive maneuvers. It just feels realistic, I have been downed by "YAP FLAK" often enough to put a habit into making "evasive tactics" part of every target run - and I think that is exactly what they set out to accomplish. Obviously you need to balance your investigation time vs. the YAP2 cost, but just another option to think about.

 

Unfortunately for me, dropping $$$ for YAP is just not an option. I'm sure it can be done. Like I said above, the smaller automatic stuff seems to have no problems hitting my aircraft, so I know it's possible. It's just a matter of understanding the variables and how they interact enought to make the changes.

 

Maybe someone with some better expertise will crack it.

Edited April 7, 2009 by malibu43

[Canadair 16]

Unfortunately for me, dropping $$$ for YAP is just not an option. I'm sure it can be done. Like I said above, the smaller automatic stuff seems to have no problems hitting my aircraft, so I know it's possible. It's just a matter of understanding the variables and how they interact enought to make the changes.

 

Maybe someone with some better expertise will crack it.

 

I am checking YAP at the moment. The warhead are not upped in weight, like I did. of the flak object only one seems networked and ina weird way.

I'll work on retro-engineering this.

[+malibu43 142]

Some of the AAA is networked with a Firecan in ODS. I'm going to throw it into WOV and see how it compares.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Jaeger,

 

Thanks for the download and all.

 

Added the hard MOD to WOV and went for a test flight over Vihn. The 100mm is a great improvement but i still was unscathed. The 57mm is incredible but i was still untouched. Getting really risky, i went low and slow and got positivly hosed by a 23mm gun. Insane! Got hit 30 times! you have to hand it to the Thud, any other plane would have blown up but the Thud stayed together until it slammed into the ground(LOL).

 

 

I'll test it further at the 100mm shooting gallery NE of Than Hoa. Normally the flak there is akin to Germany in WW2.

 

The next plane i want to fly is the A-1 and this will really up the ante!

[+malibu43 142]

OK, I'm about done with this one. Added the networked AAA from ODS, and while I was being tracked frequently by the FireCan and I had flak bursting all around me, I still did not get hit once after several attempts. I posted in the TW forum, and TK's suggestion was to increase the ballistics computer and range finder values, as well as the gun accuracy. However, even he didn't seem confident that this would ensure flak hits. Tried it and it didn't seem to make a difference.

 

Oh well. It's still fun.

 

Also (slightly OT), are there any Vietnam Era RWR sounds available for download? I'm think something more like "deedle deedle deedle" for missile launch warnings instead of the rappid beeping we have now.

Edited April 8, 2009 by malibu43

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I'm at the same point also.

 

At least something positive came out of it. Not only will going low and slow really get you killed using Jaegers MOD but the AI planes are in for a challenge as well with the new settings.

[Canadair 16]

OK, I'm about done with this one. Added the networked AAA from ODS, and while I was being tracked frequently by the FireCan and I had flak bursting all around me, I still did not get hit once after several attempts. I posted in the TW forum, and TK's suggestion was to increase the ballistics computer and range finder values, as well as the gun accuracy. However, even he didn't seem confident that this would ensure flak hits. Tried it and it didn't seem to make a difference.

 

Oh well. It's still fun.

 

Also (slightly OT), are there any Vietnam Era RWR sounds available for download? I'm think something more like "deedle deedle deedle" for missile launch warnings instead of the rappid beeping we have now.

 

I can confirm thoguh that with the "unrealistic" values of the warhead weight I was getting hit. As for the firecan, I don't know yet. I follwed Fubar's idea which seems very good. makes sense.

 

Fubar, Do you confirm that the networking happens by adding in the radar ini network=AAA and the same entry in the ground object gun data.ini ( for example KS12 data .ini)

[+malibu43 142]

OK,

 

I'm back for one more question. Did the N. Vietnamese have the KS-30?

 

Thanks.

[i fight by 1 0]

OK,

 

I'm back for one more question. Did the N. Vietnamese have the KS-30?

 

Thanks.

Vietnam used them until they phased them out in 1996.

[+malibu43 142]

One more question:

 

Would one see 37mm flak, 57mm flak, or even larger flak over S. Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia around the Ho Chi Min Trail and other busy areas? Or would you just see smaller automatic AAA, with the flak being reserved for N. Vietnam?

Edited April 28, 2009 by malibu43

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Around the HCM trail for most of the war you would have had everything but the 100mm stuff. In South Vietnam the 57mm was the largest but sorta rare.

 

I'm out the door for work now. Let me hit the books in a few hours to confirm.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Lt. James Cater

[Fubar512 1,350]

There were a few cases where 100 and 130 mm weapons were set up in caves on some of the karst ridges overlooking the trail.

[+malibu43 142]

Thanks Fubar and James. Sounds like flak is probable enough for me to just leave "AAA" entries in the targets file and not create new types and entries for small caliber AAA only.

 

One more slightly releated question - is there a sparate flak effect for 37mm and 57mm flak available any where (small white puffs, I've heard)? I tried using the "pom pom" effect out of Dueces (I think it was Dueces) WWII effects, but for the life of me couldn't get it to work. Is there another one out there? How hard would it be to whip one up?

[+NeverEnough 78]

Look through the downloads section for the 57mm Flak Effect by Fubar512.

[+malibu43 142]

Ahhh.... That's really sneaky to hide that in the sound mods section.

 

Thanks!

[jaeger_301 0]

Jaeger,

 

Thanks for the download and all.

 

Added the hard MOD to WOV and went for a test flight over Vihn. The 100mm is a great improvement but i still was unscathed. The 57mm is incredible but i was still untouched. Getting really risky, i went low and slow and got positivly hosed by a 23mm gun. Insane! Got hit 30 times! you have to hand it to the Thud, any other plane would have blown up but the Thud stayed together until it slammed into the ground(LOL).

 

 

I'll test it further at the 100mm shooting gallery NE of Than Hoa. Normally the flak there is akin to Germany in WW2.

 

 

 

Hello James, 

 

 

i have made exact the same observation about the heavy flak. the main reasons why i think the heavy AAA is so ineffective is that there aren t enough guns, the available guns aren t placed in large groups. a possible fix for these probs would be to place more guns on the map or to increase the rate of fire dramticaly.

 

another "feature" of the highly trained VC gunners was the flak trap where all guns fired in the predicted flightpath on command and with radar guidance. this was/is a highly succesful tactic. in "100 missions north" from Ken Bell is the Viet Tri mission described where a flight of 4 lost 2 planes due flak and 1 thud god damaged by a mig.

 

cheers

 

Jaeger

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Hello James, 

 

 

i have made exact the same observation about the heavy flak. the main reasons why i think the heavy AAA is so ineffective is that there aren t enough guns, the available guns aren t placed in large groups. a possible fix for these probs would be to place more guns on the map or to increase the rate of fire dramticaly.

 

another "feature" of the highly trained VC gunners was the flak trap where all guns fired in the predicted flightpath on command and with radar guidance. this was/is a highly succesful tactic. in "100 missions north" from Ken Bell is the Viet Tri mission described where a flight of 4 lost 2 planes due flak and 1 thud god damaged by a mig.

 

cheers

 

Jaeger

 

 

 

Personally, i wouldn't mind having to deal with near wall to wall AAA providing a hurricane of gunfire up in the vital areas of RP5 and 6.

 

One big thing i did notice with your mod. I've was doing ACES OF NORTH VIETNAM recently and the low level flak has shot down a really noticible number of AI planes.

[i fight by 1 0]

Wait so did we ever fix the AAA? I made it so the Bisons would fly at 4,500 feet at 200 knots right through 80 K-19s (straight though 5 rows of 16 K-19s), with the accuracy at 98, RPM 60, and the "unrealistic" Warhead weight. Only lost 2...

Edited May 23, 2009 by i fight by 1

[JRA 0]

I actually think those flaks are just for the show... I mean, I once circled around an airfield after I took out the SAMS to see if the flaks even work. After a few minutes (which felt like hours), I still couldn't see a single fragmentation hit on my airframe.

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

I actually think those flaks are just for the show... I mean, I once circled around an airfield after I took out the SAMS to see if the flaks even work. After a few minutes (which felt like hours), I still couldn't see a single fragmentation hit on my airframe.

Shilkas 57mm flack his the one to fear 14.5 mm flak also there the ones howto me out more times

[Guest HoneyFox]

try setting the gun's accuracy to around 125 or so.

 

this will make the flak be more intense, and will always explode right before your plane.

 

if your plane is accelerationg then it will be hit right soon.

 

 

[Lt. James Cater 62]

The flak situation has been solved by the new WOV Gold mod campaign. Now you have to really worry about the guns over hostile terrain!

[Slartibartfast 153]

The flak situation has been solved by the new WOV Gold mod campaign. Now you have to really worry about the guns over hostile terrain!

 

Oh yes life is now interesting going up north... still trying to work out how to bring a jet home thats not damaged and I jink as though I am on ice in leather shoes...

[Fubar512 1,350]

try setting the gun's accuracy to around 125 or so.

 

That's not realistic, nor is it workable, as 100% is the highest setting for that parameter. An accuracy value of 90% ensures that 90% of that weapon's rounds follow a "common" trajectory. If the trajectory is off, due to deficiencies in tracking, then what difference would a setting of 100% make, other then to make all your shells miss?

 

The real answer is to set the range finder and ballistic computer values on those weapons that were historically radar-directed, to 9 or 10, and to then network them to a suitable fire-control radar (such as the SON-9A).

[Guest HoneyFox]

That's not realistic, nor is it workable, as 100% is the highest setting for that parameter.  An accuracy value of 90% ensures that 90% of that weapon's rounds follow a "common" trajectory.  If the trajectory is off, due to deficiencies in tracking, then what difference would a setting of 100% make, other then to make all your shells miss?

 

The real answer is to set the range finder and ballistic computer values on those weapons that were historically radar-directed, to 9 or 10, and to then network them to a suitable fire-control radar (such as the SON-9A).

 

It is workable. for i have tested for many times. you can have a test too, i think.

 

 

yes, TK said that the accuracy should be 0-100. but actually, tests shown that 125 will make the flak more accurate while 500 or so will make flak very inaccurate.

 

range finder 10 and ballistic computer 10 doesn't affect much to those flaks in tests actually. the bullets' distribution of flak is different from those which are not time-fused. additionally, accuracy seems not to affect the non-time-fused gun when used by a ground object.