Cloud turbulence.

[Siggi 10]

This is the second time in my current career I've had a plane trashed and been thrown back to the de-briefing screen, presumably forced down onto the ground with a terminally damaged plane. I wasn't even in the cloud proper, I was climbing through a hazy gap between two banks. I had nowhere else to go, other than to fly beneath them directly over the lines at a dangerously low altitude or go tens of miles left or right around them. This is effectively rendering huge portions of the sky as no-go zones, even on bright sunny days (as was this one). Personally I don't consider this even remotely realistic, the clouds in RL are simply not this catastrophically dangerous on so relentlessy a regular basis. It's not turbulence, it's a huge fist that simply picks up the plane and throws it around the sky like a UFO.

 

Dark-grey/black storm-clouds, ok. Straight into white fluffy ones, maybe. Around the edges of white fluffy ones, on a bright sunny day, hurled around as if in a tornado, I call BS on that.

 

Please try and fix it chaps, it has become a significant detraction imo.

[+Polovski 428]

We have looked, several times, spent a lot of time on it, (this was discussed in the forum recently too) and cannot see where it can be disabled. Maybe in a future version we can spend many more hours on it.

It is dangerous to fly into cloud and sometimes yes you cannot avoid nature, fly away, cancel the mission whatever.

[Red-Dog 3]

Hi siggi, i've been having the same problem.I posted yesterday,i have found that if you nose down and gain speed in the cloud you dont spin.Mind you i am starting to do what POL says and go over / under / around / what ever it takes.

[Siggi 10]

We have looked, several times, spent a lot of time on it, (this was discussed in the forum recently too) and cannot see where it can be disabled. Maybe in a future version we can spend many more hours on it.

It is dangerous to fly into cloud and sometimes yes you cannot avoid nature, fly away, cancel the mission whatever.

 

Is there any chance it has something to do with "Sea State"? I've got a vague feeling in my mind the turbulence is stronger the higher the Sea State number is.

[+Winder 32]

The could turbulence will stay - its realistic - well as realistic as a game engine of this nature allows.

 

What is your cloud settings in workshops:

 

If you have 'In Cloud Fog' off it will appear as if you are not in the middle of a cloud when in fact you are because with in cloud fog off all you see is the outer thin cloud box layer and it could be a fair way away.

 

Bottom line - have in cloud fog on and avoid clouds - they avoided clouds in WW1 - even the cross channel Gotha raids had to divert targets due to clouds......

 

HTH

 

WM

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

the dev team already said they will be looking at this, if even later than sooner.

 

Personally i would not fly into clouds without artificial horizon instruments, and WW pilots also tried to avoid it. However it was done now and then, without always losing the pilot. Richthofen said he would not fly into any thunderstorm again with the exception of a direct order from the Kaiser, when he had just survived it.

 

Before the war Geo Chavez had crossed the Alps, and was badly thrown up and down with the fall winds, but he made it. Against public belief his plane did not break up, and it was that flight that made Pégoud try his manoeuvering with rolls and loopings, which proved the planes to be more sturdy than people had thought.

 

I would tone the effect down in a way that it is still there, but the plane will not necessarily be destroyed by those winds alone ..

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[Siggi 10]

Yes Winder, I have the cloud fog on.

 

It's not that they're turbulent that I mind, it's the insta-tornado effect that's grossly out of whack. Immediate red-out/black-out, it's just absurdly overdone. If clouds were like that in reality there would be airliners falling out of the sky in bits every day.

 

And it's not directly in the clouds either. I DO avoid them, but when it happens while flying through the gap between them it gets a bit rich.

 

Still, I guess it's time to excercise that 'Alternate Reality' option again and imagine that clouds, and the distance around their edges for a good few hundred feet, are lethal to WW1 kites. And hope, in the meantime, that the effect can be reduced at some point in the future.

[Hiccup 0]

How come it doesn't effect the AI? Does it do this in CFS3? Well, hopefully some day the issue can be resolved. I to don't mind having to fight the turbulance but it is over done on how it will take you and toss you down to the ground. There have been times when I could fly through with no problems and the clouds were so thick I couldn't see the tips of my wings then other times I'm falling from the sky as my flight continues on. Great sim though.

[+Polovski 428]

AI is not effected. Same as vanilla CFS3.

 

It is what it is, we have looked at it at length and we have no solution to making it happen less, or optional. We have spent enough time on this without going over it here again.. time to go do some useful work :)

[Hiccup 0]

Pol,.. You guys are great. I hope you know that we all do appriciate the hard work in trying to resolves these issues and even though some cannot be resolved It's good to know you a least tried..Can't ask for anymore then that. :i-m_so_happy:

[BirdDogICT 3]

AI is not effected. Same as vanilla CFS3.

 

It is what it is, we have looked at it at length and we have no solution to making it happen less, or optional. We have spent enough time on this without going over it here again.. time to go do some useful work :)

Pol, Winder, Siggi, Wells, Uncleal, and others.

 

I'm not a pilot, but logged 10 years as a crewmember on an air ambulance team covering Kansas, northern Oklahoma, and the Texas panhandle, i.e; some of the most dangerous areas of the U.S. "tornado alley". Only a fool will enter (let alone get near) clouds in bad weather. I say leave it as it is.

 

Cheers

[FastCargo 412]

First, being in a cloud without an attitude indicator is a bad idea, period.

 

Second, you don't have to be in a cloud to be slammed around by it's turbulence, especially near a front...so flying the gaps isn't a good idea.

 

Third, it's a known fact that convective activity in the higher latitudes can be just as severe as the lower ones, even if the cloud tops aren't as high (translation - a TS in Europe at FL250 can be just as dangerous as a TS in Mexico at FL600). So you don't have to have a super tall puffy to be in danger.

 

Fourth, assuming most WWI fighters didn't weigh much more than a rigid frame ultralight, I'd stay away from any cumulus...stratus might be okay, unless I saw a 'sea crest' like effect in them, that's usually a bad sign.

 

FC

[Hiccup 0]

This is all good and well but it would be nice if it effected the AI aswell, this leaves you at a disadvantage when there is a high amount of clouds around that you are trying to avade but at the same time the AI do not have to take advasive actions around the clouds. Either way I still love the game.

[catch 81]

I'm always getting sucked into clouds because of their majesty ..... just a little closer ..... closer ...... then ZOOT ! W-hey I'm spinnin' man. Usually I'll get out unscathed but a few thousand feet lower (or higher) .... unless it's one of those 'orrible flat spins which can be rather tricky. I don't think anyone denies the effect can be over the top but it is what it is and one just has to live with it and play the game.

 

But quite often nothing happens too. Just lots of cloudy mist flowing over your wing tips and a sense of immersion like no other. But of course if it keeps killing DiD pilots well than it's only bad I guess. The thought of a suddenly ashen-faced Siggi reflected in the monitor as his DiD ace is overwhelmed by turbulence, cursing at the injustice of it all as he struggles with the frail aircraft that alas [no, NO, NO ! He's got 7 confirmed kills !] implodes in a mess of wings and struts, is priceless. Am I bad for thinking that

[Bletchley 8]

Don't feel bad about cancelling a mission if it looks cloudy, Siggi, I do it routinely now :)

 

If the chaps from "Meteor" give me a bad weather warning, then I cancell immediately if it is raining/snowing at the start of a mission (just hit Esc, and take it as a mission washed-out), and if it is murky or piled up with clouds then I abandon the mission and fly it as a lone wolf mission flying well away from any cloud masses. The only change I make is if the sector is indicated as 'active' (flying in support of an offensive): in that case I will try and fly the set mission, but will turn it into a lone wolf mission if I have to follow the AI Flight Leader into or near cloud.

 

Approximately one third of the days were regarded as 'unflyable' on the Western Front (at least in Flanders), and although in extreme cases missions were flown in bad weather these were mainly vital recon. or art obs. missions by two seaters in direct support of something critical going on at ground level, and only rarely offensive patrols by scouts. Most flying activity was in the summer months (or late spring through to early autumn), when scout pilots typically racked up the bulk of their victories. Flying in winter, even in good weather, was known to be particularly debilitating - I had a quote that I have now lost from Parks (of Battle of Britain fame) saying that pilots were good for only a few months of winter flying, after which they had to be sent back to England to 'rest' due to the physical effects.

 

Bletchley

[Windchill 0]

Siggi,

 

Even with today's training standards (in the US, that is) the average life expectancy of a real life private pilot who flies into instrument meterological conditions (IMC - or clouds) is only 3 minutes! Fly into the cloud, lose situational awareness of aircraft attitude, grave yard sprial in - all in only 3 minutes!

 

In my instrument training, I managed to get into a grave yard sprial - I noticed I was losing about 2000 feet a minute - I was happy to pay my instructor that day!

 

I know from your report it wasn't "truly" a cloud, but the game may not have known that - it does represent reality fairly well, right Dimus?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Windchill

[Siggi 10]

I guess one needs to play a little more fast and loose with the mission parameters then (thanks for the legitimisation chaps ). "Sorry sir, there was no way past the clouds, so we went on a free hunt instead. Damned shame we couldn't reach the enemy airfield (and dive down through a hail of lead)." :yes:

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Clouds are nasty!.... Whether you're flying or not!...they just hang there, threatening to fall on your head!

 

I don't like Clouds!

 

 

go away clouds!!

[cptroyce 0]

Why doesn't one view the "unalterable" cloud formations in OFF as the vagaries of weather that exists in every flight, real or virtual, that one flies in?

 

I have flown innumerable times in small a/c (not as a pilot). Clear air tubulance will have one vomitting all over the a/c. Real pilots will attest to the unforseen effects of clouds..clear air..and anything else that nature produces when you are in the air. Why not just accept this as OFF's replication of that real and natural occurance? My 2 cents..pence..etc.

 

Regards,

Royce

[Olham 164]

Maybe, because it didn't happen like this in the earlier versions?

I am no real pilot. So I don't know, how hard these clear air turbulences can get.

I can only report, that in two occasions, short after one another, my plane broke

up in mid air, when I flew into the outer haze of a cloud.

If you now say, that this could well happen; that a craft like the Albatros is getting

thrown and whirled around in such a heavy manner, that it breaks up - from flying

only through a veil of haze - then I'll have to accept it.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Olham

[Siggi 10]

Why doesn't one view the "unalterable" cloud formations in OFF as the vagaries of weather that exists in every flight, real or virtual, that one flies in?

 

I have flown innumerable times in small a/c (not as a pilot). Clear air tubulance will have one vomitting all over the a/c. Real pilots will attest to the unforseen effects of clouds..clear air..and anything else that nature produces when you are in the air. Why not just accept this as OFF's replication of that real and natural occurance? My 2 cents..pence..etc.

 

Regards,

Royce

 

That's exactly what I'm going to do. Thing is, I was already doing it...for flying IN clouds. I'm now going to extend that to flying NEAR clouds.

[Hiccup 0]

Why doesn't one view the "unalterable" cloud formations in OFF as the vagaries of weather that exists in every flight, real or virtual, that one flies in?

 

I have flown innumerable times in small a/c (not as a pilot). Clear air tubulance will have one vomitting all over the a/c. Real pilots will attest to the unforseen effects of clouds..clear air..and anything else that nature produces when you are in the air. Why not just accept this as OFF's replication of that real and natural occurance? My 2 cents..pence..etc.

 

Regards,

Royce

 

 

I don't think that its a matter of accepting it, we all know what clouds do when you fly in them but I think that if the AI was to respond accordenly to what you need to do then it would make it more real. In other words the AI flight needs to avoid them with you. That would be good. I know that the Devs have tried to find an answer to this cloud situation and I applaud them for this. We are not complaining but just asking if there have been any headway in this. Either way I do not think that there is a person in here that would hang up OFF because of the clouds. By the way, did you see the cloud that looks like Bozo the clown?