NATO Fighters IV SEAD Advice

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I am flying a campaign in NFIV in the Royal Danish Air Force with F-16A Block 10s. It is pretty fun as Esk 727 is tasked mainly with strikes, mainly along the East German coast. Most of the time I am able to scoot in under, around or blaze through the SAM coverage, or a SEAD flight in front of me every now and then clears a path for me, I have even managed to catch a Cub on finals at the airfield I was attacking a couple times, sweet bonus. My problem arises when I get tasked to be the SEAD flight.

 

I fly my campaigns like a lot of the OFF guys fly, Dead is Dead. Once my pilot dies I don't use him anymore and create a new one, it motivates me not to do stupid 'hero' stuff all the time. Anyways, I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, what are some good ways to counter the SA-11 in a Block 10 Viper? I can't carry Anti-Radiation missiles, and since the range to the target is usually pretty far since I am flying from Central Denmark so I need drop tanks and, and the ECM pod i need takes up my centerline, so I am basically down to a descision of rocket pods or CBUs.

 

The first time I was tasked with this mission my wingman got blasted so quick I didn't know what was going on, and I was able to avoid 6 missiles somehow and, not wanting to die just turned back to base and conceded defeat. 2nd Time we got jumped on the way, had to jettison our ordance, killed 2 SU-15s, but with noting but guns to shoot at SAMs with, I headed home to fight another day.

 

What is the best approach to this mission in this aircraft with the ord. available?

[Dreamstar 3]

Id recommend Low level Radar van strafing..... if all else fails once the radar is gone the missiles are next to useless

[Slartibartfast 153]

Okay with SEAD being my thang... I love it... against the SA-11 me I would go with CBU's and you need to get down low and I mean real low preferably under a 100ft...

 

To take it out hit the RADAR first followed by taking out the launchers watching for ZSU's etc. stay as low as you can on your run in and hit it and also task your wingman to hit the RADAR as well. Also Jink and dodge with use of Chaff when missiles are in the air and there is the old divve for the deck if you are running at 10000ft or so head down vertical and there is a good chance the missile will impact the ground trying to track you... takes a bit of practice as you need to be diving at high speed...

 

In real life the SA-11 is a very very dangerous SAM in RL it has a 60% - 90% chance to take you out.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-11.htm

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Well, fly at three top level and pray too.

 

In any 1986 campaign, even at very low level cruises, Sa-11 and Su 27 are the principal causes of my deaths.

[macelena 1,070]

If i where you, i would fly low, 550kts, and at 2-3 miles from taget, climb almost vertical. When

over the target, roll and dive dropping Rockeyes on Radar,Zsu and all stuff.

 

If i were you, i wouldn´t activate ECM until being tracked: It is like splahing the water: your image is worse

but you call attention. In SEAD what i do (with F-4Gs) is to activate the ECM for 10 seconds when i want them

to engage, be painted, and loose ARMs. But if you need an stealthy approach, do not start jamming until they

know you are there

 

 

Btw: No Mavericks available? Most times it is key to destroy guns, and strafe SAMs safely, even with guns.

Edited May 28, 2009 by macelena

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I agree with Macelena.

 

If you can have Mavericks available they will do the trick.

[column5 63]

I might be wrong but I think you need the Block 15 or later for Mavericks...

[Slartibartfast 153]

Block 15 is Freefall only... no guided stuff.

[+hgbn 91]

http://www.f-16.net/gallery_item21149.html

[+hgbn 91]

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article3.html

 

But I honnestly dont know if they could carry the Maverick before the MLU update. But I guess not

[+EricJ 4,245]

Well.... since I've been working on a tutorial on defeating the SA-10, my mind is churning..

 

So in NF4, is the SAM site designated as an SA-11 site, i.e. in the targets list for the Germany_CE_targets, is it:

 

target[001]=SA-11L?

 

I'm wondering because I've never played with one, and interested in setting one up for testing.

 

But then again, as PACMAN said, you can do that, pop up to get a lock, then drop under the radar to break lock, causing the missile to detonate because it lost track? You don't have to turn and burn, you can cruise along in your automobile, and do that until the lock tone is going, but no missiles, then you can work the SAM site. Problem is of course if you got Red Air you may have to get out of the engagement zone and handle your business. But it's easy to do. Also if you jam it completely, it still has an optical sight, so if you're in it's "range" it'll still engage, learned that the hard way with an SA-17, and nearly got popped by one in the Afghanistan map. Thankfully I had a Mav on the way so by the time it almost connected (saw the smoke trail thank god) I was rolling to evade.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Ya gotta love the multiple guidance system's on most Soviet SAM's. When the 11 came out there was talk that it had IR tracking as well which would have made it even more deadly as they could shoot you Optical track you Heat and then blast you with Radar guidance...

 

EricJ you need someone to help out with the evasion of SA-10's give me a shout as I said hunting SAM's is my favourite (and no I aint doing Cole's line outta Flight of the Intruder again well not twice in one day...) :tomato2:

[+FLOGGER23 3,064]

Ya gotta love the multiple guidance system's on most Soviet SAM's. When the 11 came out there was talk that it had IR tracking as well which would have made it even more deadly as they could shoot you Optical track you Heat and then blast you with Radar guidance...

 

EricJ you need someone to help out with the evasion of SA-10's give me a shout as I said hunting SAM's is my favourite (and no I aint doing Cole's line outta Flight of the Intruder again well not twice in one day...) :tomato2:

 

 

don't worry, they wouldn't expect you come back................

[+EricJ 4,245]

Ya gotta love the multiple guidance system's on most Soviet SAM's. When the 11 came out there was talk that it had IR tracking as well which would have made it even more deadly as they could shoot you Optical track you Heat and then blast you with Radar guidance...

 

EricJ you need someone to help out with the evasion of SA-10's give me a shout as I said hunting SAM's is my favourite (and no I aint doing Cole's line outta Flight of the Intruder again well not twice in one day...) :tomato2:

 

Well I'm pretty sure I got the basics down already though, unless you got some specific data, like jammer strength versus distance. I got the majority of the ranges down as well as other stuff. But if you can offer any suggestions or tips I can add to it.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Alright, so it took me 3 missions before I got a SEAD mission. It was around Berlin at that. I loaded my wingie and myself up with CBUs and added another 2 A/C and loaded them up with AIM-9s so I could have them handle and fighter threat on the way. I decided to go as low as I could go to try to sneak up on the SAMs. It was a pretty smooth flight there were some F-15s that took care of some Floggers in the area, I thought it was open around the target area, boy was I wrong there were actually a flight of Foxhounds and some East German Fishbeds around the airfield the we were doing SEAD around. It was a pretty good trap. The fighters could pop us, and if we went to altitude the SA-11s would pop us.

 

I didn't want to, but I decided to send my 3 and 4 into a death trap and sent them after the fighters while my wingie and I wend after the targets, which actually were ZSU-23-4s and SA-9s... hmm whatever . I strafed a SA-9 from tree top level, went after a ZSU, but bugged out after seein the tracers come at me, I decided to give it one more pass. Went in on another low level gun run, and lost my nerve, hit another SA-9 with CBUs and beat feat out of the area low and fast.

 

my 3 and 4 were gone as I imagined and my wingie some how survived.

 

Back in Denmark looking at the log it was the SA-11s that popped my 3 and 4 probably as soon as they went to altitude.

 

It was a pretty hairy situation. AGM-65 capability would be so useful in this situation, but can't wine, just have to execute.

 

I came away with some lessons learned, hopefully I won't get tasked for this many more times

[+EricJ 4,245]

At what height does the SA-11 engage? Don't know what's up but I haven't gotten shot at yet. I adjusted my weapondata.ini so that may have been the issue.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

At what height does the SA-11 engage? Don't know what's up but I haven't gotten shot at yet. I adjusted my weapondata.ini so that may have been the issue.

 

I'm not 100% sure on the game data, but the tech data I read says 330 feet. I never really looked at my altitude when i got painted, but I flew that last mission below 500 ft.

[macelena 1,070]

I'm not 100% sure on the game data, but the tech data I read says 330 feet. I never really looked at my altitude when i got painted, but I flew that last mission below 500 ft.

 

I don´t know if your germany terrain is much alike the one i got, from Gepard, but in this, land is plain enough so

you can fly safely among 200-100 ft. That´s what i meant with low level approach.It is pretty safe if you pay

attention.You must avoid by any means to be shot at, given the threat and the aircraft you are flying. Anyway,

the F-16 is not exactly the best aircraft for SEAD

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Anyway,

the F-16 is not exactly the best aircraft for SEAD

 

Def not, not this Block anyways, but I think the mission frequency in the campaign is like 10 or 15 so it won't come up all that often. Just when it does, damn. :yes:

[jayo 0]

I don´t know if your germany terrain is much alike the one i got, from Gepard, but in this, land is plain enough so

you can fly safely among 200-100 ft. That´s what i meant with low level approach.It is pretty safe if you pay

attention.You must avoid by any means to be shot at, given the threat and the aircraft you are flying. Anyway,

the F-16 is not exactly the best aircraft for SEAD

 

 

I use the Height-Map Beta with the Germany terrain,makes SAM evasion and stealthy approaches that much better,not to mention running from those Su-27's, just have to pay a bit more attention when hooning around at tree top height....

 

Height Map- Alternative Height Map for WOE GermanyCE Terrain - beta 0.2

Edited May 29, 2009 by jayo

[Slartibartfast 153]

Dont know on the NF-4 SA-11 engagement deal as they seem to be staying vewy vewy quiet when I am a flying after the pasting I gave one site that where trying to take out a flight of Buff's I was running Sead escort for...

 

But in real life the SA-11 is anything above 30metres and up... out to 30km or so can give you a bad day at the office.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Yeah which is why I prefer the versions that 101tfs made, those do fire... these? Not sure...

[macelena 1,070]

Dont know on the NF-4 SA-11 engagement deal as they seem to be staying vewy vewy quiet when I am a flying after the pasting I gave one site that where trying to take out a flight of Buff's I was running Sead escort for...

 

But in real life the SA-11 is anything above 30metres and up... out to 30km or so can give you a bad day at the office.

 

 

That´s why sometimes yo fire an ARM stand off range, begging that they hit something. For that, i use the SuperHornet (thought the A might do as well) carrying 2 AGM-88 and 6 AGM-65, and work pretty well. Once, in SEA, i loosed a HARM over Laos and hit a radar north of Haiphong, they get really far away

[+EricJ 4,245]

Think I figured out why the SA-11s never took a shot when I was out in the open. I was keeping it realistic by setting the SOVIET pilot training to POOR....

[+EricJ 4,245]

disregard, it doesn't matter, though I got an SA-2 to fire at me.. weird.