Damage Model mods for you to try out and report back in this thread

[Fortiesboy 3]

As suggested by Womenfly2 in an earlier thread by Prop Wasche, I have started this thread so that Prop Wasche and I can post xdp files for you to download and try in Prop wasche's Intermediate DM, as posted by him earlier.

( I have every reason to believe that they would work in either the Normal or Hardcore DMs for 1.30c install ),as well. )

 

As you may know, Prop Wasche and myself have been working on xdp file mods to try to make the damage of the EA planes more apparent. At the moment, the planes seem to go into the ground, obviously damaged to the extent that they give up flying, but there doesn't seem to be much apparent damage effect-, i.e Wings coming off, or fire etc.

These mods are an attempt to create more of such effects.

 

PropWasche and myself have got to the point where we differ slightly ( in an extremely friendly way ) as to what is the best thing to see.

( I have a belief that it may be, to some extent, dependant on your computer specs, because I don't see as much "damage" as Prop Wasche does, on his mods.

 

Thus you will have a couple of mods supplied by me, and a couple supplied by Prop Wasche ( in a few days time ), and you are invited to use them and try them out and give an assessment in this thread as to what you think.

 

To start, there are two files supplied by me. They are for the AlbDlll_OAW_QC1 and for the Nieuport 17_lewis_QC1

Each of these files have a txt suffix. When you have downloaded these files to a folder , you will need to rename them and replace the txt suffix with xdp . When you do that, there will be a "warning" that changing the suffix will blah blah blah...

Just answer yes ! You will see the icon will change and they are then shown as xdp files.

They are then ready for installation into OFF.

 

Installation of the files.

 

The files should be installed into your OBDSoftware/ CFSWWl/Overflandersfield/aircraft/ xxxxxx folders, where xxxxxx is the name of the model of the aircraft, e.g. AlbDlll_OAW_QC1, corresponding with the name of the xdp file.

Obviously, first make a copy of the existing xdp file as a backup somewhere.

 

IMPORTANT- Having installed the xdp file into the folder, you will see in the folder a file with the

suffix BDP. Repeat, BDP. You should right click this file and DELETE it. Don't worry, when you start OFF a new BDP file will be created.

If you don't delete that file, then the values of the new xdp file will not take effect.

 

I have created my files to (sometimes ) give wings coming off; or fire in the cockpit; ( I even had the pilot jumping out one time when the cockpit was on fire );

and sometimes explosions - as well as just going down intact with a smoke trail.

 

These mods relate only to QC aircraft, and so they should be tested in QC only - either ordinary QC, or, in Workshops, CFS3 QC.

 

You obviously fly your sims with your individual settings, but it is true to say that if you use all the aids, and strong weapon settings, against Rookie EA, then it will be quite easy to blow things up nearly every time. If you fly with labels on, outside views, enemy cones on etc then it may seem like arcade damage.

 

Let me tell you how I fly.

I fly One on One at 10000 ft , against Ace EA, low skill groundfire- In Workshops my flight model is realistic and my gun strength is normal.

I fly always in the cockpit; No labels; No HUD; No external views; No cone; NO padlock except as follows.

(As soon as I am flying, I bring up the TAC, I select the EA and padlock him on a toggle switch..

Before engaging I toggle off padlock and switch off the TAC. Then I dogfight.

Now, at a point when i think i have damaged the EA, I use the button F4 on a joystick button to

select one external view after another of my own aircraft until I get the "Player to Aircraft" view of the EA.

I can then see what damage is showing.)

 

Please fly up to ten times or more in the same scenario etc , so that you get a chance to see the differing outcomes which should result from your different rates of hits etc. Sometimes concentrate fire at the wings - then the engine etc- you get the idea.

 

If, after flying in such "realism", you think that downing the EA was easy, try it again with such settings against the EA - and now a Wingman.

It is hard- and IMHO, equates with conditions you would find in RL in Campaign dogfights.

 

In such circumstances, it has always been my opinion that in RL the difficult part must have been

in getting behind the EA whilst keeping him or his mate off your six. Having done that, putting some bullets into the EA must have resulted in some observable damage. And it could/would have been done without having to use all your ammunition quota on one plane.

 

Anyway, try the xdp files and in a few days ( because of RL issues ) I'm sure Prop Wasche will post his.

 

I would like to say that i am indebted to Prop-Wasche for his Intermediate DM, which I recommend, and to Polovski and the devs for their allowing (encouragement even ) PW and myself in these mods.

 

cheers

 

FB

 

Nieuport_17_lewis_QC1.txt

 

Alb_DIII_OAW_QC1.txt

[Fortiesboy 3]

Chaps,

I see 12 downloads so far, thanks.

 

Prop wasche is away at the moment but he has asked me to post two of his xdp files for you to try.

He asked me to say that" they are not quite final, but pretty much where he wants them to be"

 

Alb_DIII_QC1.txt

 

Se5a_QC1.txt

Edited May 30, 2009 by Fortiesboy

[Madmatt 0]

I have downloaded all 4 moded xdp's but haven't yet had a chance to try them out yet as I was playing MP earlier today with the stock Hardcore DM. I will give them

a whirl this weekend though and let you know what I think.

 

Up until today I had been playing with your Intermediate 1.6 DM and I like the changes a lot, but it might be just a tad too easy still. Seems like my kill rate jumped a bit over my Hardcore DM campaigns.

 

Although the way I was flying tonight in MP, I may just be on a roll! ;)

 

Madmatt

[gaw 5]

tried popping 'em into the plane folders....renamed each one to match the outgoing xdp but got a "failure to spawn notice...reinstall OFF". No worries.........kept copies of the originals which on replacement let the game start up again. I probably did something wrong and I'll certainly try installing 'em again tomorrow when I'm a bit more awake as I'd love to see more damage too....I agree, it'd be fun to see more chunks coming off.......or whatever you guys have whomped up. Might you be able to mail me a whole plane to try in case I'm too stupid to sort out the naming protocols? Thanks...............GAW

[Burning Beard 14]

I got them to work, loaded Fortiesboy's Alb and Nieup, and Prop Wasdhe's Se5a. All seems to work well to this point. If you are having problems with the download placement, the way I did it was to copy the text file to note pad, change the name of the xdp file the plane folder to xdpxxx so it couldn't be read. Then saved the text file to the plane folder with the correct name (with underscores as spaces as in the original). Then of course delete the bdp file as instructed.

 

They seem to be working fine for me, as I have managed to shoot off an Alb wing and have lost an Alb wing ;). I also lost the fabric on the top of the right side horizontal stabilizer of an Alb I was flying, though managed to finish that mission. I noticed that the Nieup has a tendency to do the old climb and stall routine at lower altitude, but don't be too lax because occasionally he will throw in a roll and shoot you.

 

I have not seen the damage on the allied birds yet, but have not had a lot of time to test. Am just posting this to suggest a way to get them into the game easily.

 

Beard

[Fortiesboy 3]

Gaw

 

Reference your difficulty in re naming the files . I had the same problem to start with, so it could be worth checking this re your computer settings.

Do you have file extensions enabled? By that I mean, do you have your computer set to show the name of the file after the "."?

Go into Control Panel, select Folder Options, click the "View" tab, scroll down some, and uncheck the box that reads "Hide extensions for known file types." You should now be able to read the full file name, including extensions."

 

That was my problem, and after i unchecked the relevant box the changes happened fine .

 

HTH

 

FB

Edited May 31, 2009 by Fortiesboy

[gaw 5]

thanks gents....I'll give it another shake today and report back.........cheers!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

thanks gents....I'll give it another shake today and report back.........cheers!

Hi Gaw.

 

Any luck getting the files to install properly?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

C'mon, guys! Fortiesboy and I are very interested in hearing your reports and comments. We particularly need you to settle our dispute about which has the better damage model!

 

Would people prefer if we offered identical airplanes to directly compare models? The four planes currently offered were more or less randomly chosen by Fortiesboy and I, but we can upload additional models, IF there is any interest to do so. Shipping and handling included. Please allow a few days for delivery...no refunds or exchanges!!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Shhhhhh! If you are very quiet, you may hear the crickets chirping.

 

"chirp...chirp...."

 

Ah, there they are!

[+Polovski 460]

Whole forum is quiet at the moment, maybe holidays etc

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Holidays, or a severe case of spring fever!

 

Of course, Widowmaker and Olham alone, who are on holiday at the moment, are probably responsible for 40% of the posts on this forum!

[Madmatt 0]

I setup some QC battles over the weekend but I wil be honest and say that I wasn't really able to do much testing and my results didn't, at first glance, show much difference between these moded Intermittant thresholds and what I usally play with. Due to my current work and play in MP, I kind of have to keep the hardcore DM installed so I am sorry that I doubt I will be able to do much more in this area for you.

 

I do encourage this development as I think everyone would like to see more visible damage effects in their planes, I just can't spare the time to test right now.

 

Madmatt

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, I can report that the Pfaltz that FB did..is much better (imho)

 

Will try these too in the next day or so..was originally worried it might screw up MP

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I setup some QC battles over the weekend but I wil be honest and say that I wasn't really able to do much testing and my results didn't, at first glance, show much difference between these moded Intermittant thresholds and what I usally play with. Due to my current work and play in MP, I kind of have to keep the hardcore DM installed so I am sorry that I doubt I will be able to do much more in this area for you.

 

I do encourage this development as I think everyone would like to see more visible damage effects in their planes, I just can't spare the time to test right now.

 

Madmatt

No worries, Madmatt! I know you are busy and don't have much time to test. Thanks, anyway for taking our DM's up for a spin. Let me also congratulate you for your work on the MP Files AutoInstaller. I haven't tried MP yet, but may try soon thanks to your easy to use installer. Do you know if you could modify your program to accept alternative DM's, such as mine or Fortiesboy's? I'd like to see how my Intermediate DM might perform in MP.

 

Back to the discussion of the threshold values in mine and Fortiesboy's DM's. Before we altered any of the threshold values (TV's), we both decided to use my Intermediate Damage Model instead of the OBD "hardcore" DM. As you probably know, my DM simply adjusts the hit points for several critical aircraft components and leaves all of the TV's alone. Fortiesboy then suggested altering the TV's to see what effect that would have on visible damage to the airplanes. Working independently from each other, Fortiesboy reduced the TV's much lower in his two files than I did in mine. Even though I was able to see damage effects with my higher settings (for an example, see the following picture),

 

 

Fortiesboy claimed that he could not obtain the same results with my higher values. If you did not notice any differences with our files, it may have been that you were using my values instead of Fortiesboy's. As I indicated to Fortiesboy, I am still tweaking my values and may reduce them further if others are not getting enough visual evidence with my models. OTOH, I also feel we need to be careful not to reduce the values too much so that there is little or no difference between my DM and the so-called "normal" DM. Ultimately, what I would like to strive for is a DM that retains the difficulty of shooting an enemy plane down that exists in the hardcore DM, but with a little more visual "eyecandy" such as seen in the above picture.

 

This brings up one final point for anyone who has, or will, test either mine or Fortiesboy's DM. Beyond the visual effects, please try and take note of any differences in either the aggressiveness or the flying ability of the AI when using either of our models. Perhaps I am biased, but I could swear that the AI gave me a better, and longer, fight when using my DM with TV tweaks. If anyone else can confirm or disprove this, I would be appreciative.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Well, I can report that the Pfaltz that FB did..is much better (imho)

 

Will try these too in the next day or so..was originally worried it might screw up MP

A Pfalz? Did FB give you a Pfalz to play with? I thought he worked only on the Nieuport 17 and the Alb DIII OAW.

 

Can you be more specific, Widowmaker? Was damage more visible with FB's files? How was the flight behavior? Too easy, too hard?

 

Also, did you have a chance to give my models a try? I'd be interested in hearing your report.

 

Thanks.

[Madmatt 0]

HDW,

 

Yes, I could add in your custom DM to my installer (and was thinking about this already) or any other file/mod for that matter. The only thing is what happens if someone were to uninstall my files using the built in uninstaller program. My goal has been to not affect any *core* files so that my changes would not affect anyone's SP experience AT-ALL. Up to this point I have been careful to only make changes that A). Do not affect Single Play and B.) Can be rolled back so the game returns to the the EXACT same shape it was BEFORE my program was run.

 

Now then, If I include any DM's, that would change some core game files and if my program was ever uninstalled, it would simply delete those updated files but it can't simply reinstall the original files. At least not without a ton of custom scripting, which is something I can't really invest much time in just now.

 

Of course, that's a pretty minor detail and its not that hard to re-run either the Hardcore or Normal DM program to get everything back to how it was, but it IS an additional step.

 

While I am very good at making custom software installers, I am not a mod-manager type of programmer and that's what we really need. If we could get something like the Mod-Manager I use with DCS-Blackshark and LOMAC then it COULD do all of this cool stuff, and more. Sadly, that's not a skillset I have currently but I am looking at possibly finding someone that COULD code a program like that.

 

So anyway, back to answer you question: Yes, I could add your files to my autoinstaller. In fact, my current installer actually prompts people if they want to Download the Hardcore Damage Model so maybe the solution would be to simply include another prompt for people to download your Intermediate DM and TV files.

 

Madmatt

Edited June 9, 2009 by Madmatt

[Madmatt 0]

You know, I am still a little confused about the difference between a DM and a TV change though. Let me see if I got it right.

 

So, if I understand correctly, when I use the Hardcore DM (which I usually do), in essence the "Hitpoints" for all the planes components are higher but the Visual Damage Threshold Values (which I guess are % of total HP's) don't change.

 

Example: In Hardcore, this means that while my wing is tougher than in the default DM, I still only see it break off once it sustains 90% damage.

 

Now, again, if I am right, this means that your Intermediate DM, basically reduced the Hitpoints slightly from the Hardcore mode but still left them them tougher than default. Now, I did fly with the Intermediate DM and to me it feel pretty good.

 

Additionally to that, we now have these new Threshold Values which were adjusted downward so If I am right, that means that it takes a LESS of a % to achieve the various visual damage effects.

 

So while in my Hardcore example above it took 90% to get the wing breaking effect, now with your new Threshold Value files, it might occur at perhaps 85%. Again, that's just an example value but do I have the basic concept correct?

 

Madmatt

Edited June 9, 2009 by Madmatt

[Fortiesboy 3]

You know, I am still a little confused about the difference between a DM and a TV change though. Let me see if I got it right.

 

So, if I understand correctly, when I use the Hardcore DM (which I usually do), in essence the "Hitpoints" for all the planes components are higher but the Visual Damage Threshold Values (which I guess are % of total HP's) don't change.

 

Example: In Hardcore, this means that while my wing is tougher than in the default DM, I still only see it break off once it sustains 90% damage.

 

Now, again, if I am right, this means that your Intermediate DM, basically reduced the Hitpoints slightly from the Hardcore mode but still left them them tougher than default. Now, I did fly with the Intermediate DM and to me it feel pretty good.

 

Additionally to that, we now have these new Threshold Values which were adjusted downward so If I am right, that means that it takes a LESS of a % to achieve the various visual damage effects.

 

So while in my Hardcore example above it took 90% to get the wing breaking effect, now with your new Threshold Value files, it might occur at perhaps 85%. Again, that's just an example value but do I have the basic concept correct?

 

Madmatt

 

Madmatt S!

 

Yes, i reckon you have it right.. That's the way I'm thinking on this. Though, I tend to go as well on what I observe.

 

The DMs - Normal; Hardcore and PW's Intermediate, IMHO , change the point at which damage occurs according to the number and place of the bullet hits.

Theoretically, the threshold values (TVs) cause the damage to be effected when that percentage of

damage is reached.

However- I am not so sure that it works like that in practice.

This is why I think that.

I have fired bullets into EA planes and the EA have gone in ( augered, spiralled, wallowed etc ) and crashed but have still been intact. I have seen that, and i think most everyone else has.

It seems that the computer has decided that the bullet hits have caused damage so that the thing "damaged" does not work any more. - The wing, or the pilot, or the tail or the engine etc.

If the plane has a wing damaged so that it has reached its points total, then the plane will be made to no longer fly, i.e crash, by the computer. So the plane goes in.

 

But to show the "effects" of this damage the TVs, also, have to be satisfied to a certain level, and those "effects" ( if you look at the TVs ) graduate from debris coming off, through fabric ripping sound, through other effects to, finally, "break".

 

The file says that will happen when I reach certain percentages ( of the damage points?), but my observations have shown that 100 per cent is rarely reached, which would show the wing coming off- or the engine explode. The plane has usually gone in long before that.

 

I have got the wing to come off or the engine explode etc by reducing the TVs to around 45.

 

Prop Wasche doesn't reduce that far, thinking possibly that to do so will make the damage too easy.

I have found that to stay at PWs' values still means that the damage effects are not seen.

 

My conclusion is that I am not so sure that the TV figures are percentages, because they are not acting like percentages.

If the planes are going down, then there should be TV percentages of 100 being reached. ? ( the damage points are being reached, aren't they?) -But they are not, apparently.

 

IMHO, the TVs seem to be the same in any of the three above DMs -Hard, Normal or PW Intermediate. - the 100 values don't seem to get reached in any of them.

Which means that the lowering of the TV values would work in any of them as well.

 

If anyone thinks that lowering the Tvs as i have done will make the damage too arcade, then let me re iterate what I have experienced.

If you fly against Rookie EA, ( let alone with labels on, strongest guns, padlock etc ), then you will easily get damage because it seems to sit there and let you fill him with lead etc..

But, if you fly against the Ace EA without those aids ( especially if there are more than one of'em )

and which i suggest is more like the RL scenario would be, then there is no way that the damage is too easy. In fact, you do well to survive against two or more Ace EA.

This AI now is good at Ace level and it's only right that if you get a five second burst ( that's long ) into the EA then you should expect to see some damage. Not all the time, but more often than not.

 

So, may I suggest that you can put my modded Tvs of my xdp files in any of the three DMs and you will see a difference.

As it happens, I don't think PWs Intermediate Dm is too easy at all, and in that my xdp files will give a fun and visually satisfying combat.

 

HTH

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Yeah, what FB said. While the damage box points appear to be maximum hit point values, the TV values appear to be triggers for special effects to appear. For whatever reason, however, they don't appear to get triggered as often as I feel they should.

 

Everybody I have talked to, including Polvoski, have said that the TV's represent percentages. However, like FB, I believe it is more complicated than that. In MY experience, you get the most visual damage effects if you set the TV's so that their maximum value is set only a little higher than the maximum hit point value of a given component. For example, if the max hit points for a wing is 78, as it is in my Alb DIII, then the "break" TV should not be much higher than 78. For other components, such as the wing tip, which is set to 33, then the max TV should only be around 50 or so if you want to see any effects.

 

FB has set his TV's even lower than mine, because he feels that he doesn't get much visual damage even with my "somewhat" lower TV's. Personally, I think that the differences in results that FB and I seem to get are due to differences in shooting style and skill. My guess is that he aims more for the engine and pilot, while I hit the wings and elevators more often. So, I occasionally see wing tips and wings come off, while he usually doesn't. I should also point out that with my DM and somewhat lower TV's, the AI can occasionally get an opponent's wings to come off--including mine! In the end, which DM and TV you prefer is a matter of personal preference. But choice is good, right?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Madmatt,

 

It's no biggie if you can't or don't think it's a good idea to make your install more complicated by adding in another optional DM. Most people appear to be reasonably happy using the hardcore damage model in MP. I don't want to add any unnecessary complications to MP at this time, anyway. We need to get MP stable and build on that, first, before possibly confusing potential new recruits to MP with too many "non standard" optional mods.

 

Who knows? Maybe even I will give MP a spin in the near future!

Edited June 10, 2009 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Mr. Lucky 0]

I only fly in campaign, so I'd be interested in testing them there when or if you get more aircraft changed.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

It's not that simple to change the campaign aircraft, unless someone more knowledgeable than me can tell me what type of aircraft are used in the campaign (QC, SQ, AC, or Sqd planes? All of them?). Unless we know that, we are talking about changing the xdp files for 390 models! So, it's much simpler to modify some of the QC aircraft and give them a test drive. (There are only 39 QC models). Thanks for the offer, though.

 

You did know that you can fly in QC without risking your campaign pilots? Makes for easy testing and practice flying. Simply create a new pilot and name him "Test Pilot" or something similar and set Workshop to "Pilot never dies." You will still get shot down and can crash, but you don't have to create a new pilot every time this happens. Just remember to change Workshop back to "DiD" when you go back to your campaign pilot.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I have made a couple of revisions/updates to my QC aircraft for testing purposes. Here are the most important changes:

• Reduced engine damage hit points by 10%
  
• Reduced pilot damage hit points from a total of 80 points to 70 points. (Originally was 60 Points).
  
• Reduced aileron cable hit points to 25 to be consistent with other cables.
  
• Reduced Threshold values and break values by 5-10 points for ailerons, wings, wing tips, rudders, elevators, and stabilizers.
  

These changes should make it slightly easier to see visible damage without making kills too easy. OTOH, if you see anything more than a bullet hole in your own wing or elevator, it's time to "get the hell out of Dodge."

 

 

 

Remember to backup your original files and to rename these files from *.txt to *.xdp before use!

Edited June 15, 2009 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Fortiesboy 3]

Here are two xdp files for you to try in hardcore DM installs

 

They are here in txt format. Having downloaded them, just rename them with xdp suffix to replace the txt and install in the appropriate aircraft folder.

 

Nieuport_17_lewis_QC1.txt

 

Se5a_QC1.txt