Flying the "new" SPAD XIII

[Olham 164]

I have tested the "new" SPAD XIII today.

So far I can say, that you can dare to turn with an Albatros DVa or a Pfalz DIIIa now,

but not with Fokker Dr.1 or DVII.

What worked very well for change of direction, was the high turn.

You zoom up after very steep after a dive (50 - 60 °), and when she gets slower, give full rudder.

She'll turn her nose down and opposite direction without problems.

 

Similar to the Pfalz, I could do the tightest turns better without use of rudder - I left it centered.

If you want to turn with rudder, you shouldn't bank more than ca. 50° and use rudder in turn direction.

If you bank steeper with rudder use, you may stall sidewards.

 

Her overall behaviour was so much better, that I feel encouraged to fly a campaign with her.

But she is very reactive on elevator, which makes aiming/shooting trickier than in my Albatros.

Anyway - many of you, who had thought about flying her: try it now! It's fun now!

And with 200 PS (horsepower), you have a very strong plus!

[Rickitycrate 10]

Thanks for the report On the Spad. That's encouraging to me as it is a very important plane in my future.

[Olham 164]

Will you use it in an American Squad., Jim?

[Rickitycrate 10]

Yes eventually, when I campaign my way to that date. I flew the DVII in a Scenario for the first time today. Man there is so much to do.

I'm still flying 1915 crates. Anyway the American squads have my american heroes and I look forward to being in the sky with them. I will use labels when I get there. You know if the addon planes include early birds I'll end up going backwards before I get to 1918.

[Olham 164]

You're the same as me there - you see so much potential in here, so much to try and do,

that it may well last for two more years at least. Where are you in your best campaign?

[Red-Dog 3]

Thanks for that Olham,i will be getting the Spad X111 next with N73,mind you i've only been flying the V11 for 3 missions but i'am starting to like it.

[WilliVonBill 0]

Yep, the SPAD is a worthy mount now... they really nailed the FM this time around. Well done guys!

 

WvB

[Bullethead 12]

I have tested the "new" SPAD XIII today.

So far I can say, that you can dare to turn with an Albatros DVa or a Pfalz DIIIa now,

but not with Fokker Dr.1 or DVII.

 

Yes indeed, the SPAD XIII can now do sustained hard turns while bleeding speed down to about 60 knots (used to be only about 90 knots) without an accelerated spin/stall, but it still happens at about 60. But when that happens, it's no longer nose-high and much easier to recover from. It's still not something you want to have happen, though, because really, you NEVER want to be that slow in a SPAD.

 

I recommend following a turning target for no more than 1/4 of a circle, maybe 1/3 - 1/2 of a circle if you're a SPAD expert (I'm not). If you go further than that, you'll be too slow to do the high yoyo that is the SPAD's bread and butter.

 

In addition, the SPAD can now REVERSE a hard turn without going tits over teakettle, provided you don't do it too abruptly. And the 1/4 circle rule still applies, so if you go 1/8 of a circle left, go no more than 1/8 of a circle right before breaking up into your next high yoyo.

 

On top of all this, the wings-level stall speed is now down to about 55-60 knots (used to be about 80). STILL, however, I recommend landing low and fairly hot. Instead of the 90-knot touchdown you used to have to make, try for 65-75. The reason is that the slower you touch the ground, the higher the pig bounces, and with a fairly high stall speed that can easily be fatal. So come in hot and shallow, and force the thing back down when it bounces so you only go about 3 feet up instead of 30. DO NOT kill the motor until you're touching the ground below 60 knots, and DO NOT pull back on the stick to brake until you're at 50 knots or less. That's the tradeoff for the lower stall speed--you'll go back in the air and stall unless you're pretty slow.

 

What worked very well for change of direction, was the high turn.

You zoom up after very steep after a dive (50 - 60 °), and when she gets slower, give full rudder.

She'll turn her nose down and opposite direction without problems.

 

Yup, the high yoyo is the SPAD's bread and butter. Fly the SPAD like an FW-190D fighting Spit Mk IXs. Don't follow the enemy through very much of a turn, but level out, pull up, and come back up and over on him. The SPAD is not for sticking to the enemy's tail like glue, but for delivering a series of short, violent slashing attacks separated by vertical maneuvers. Speed is very much life in the SPAD. No speed = no vertical moves = dead SPAD.

 

Similar to the Pfalz, I could do the tightest turns better without use of rudder - I left it centered.

If you want to turn with rudder, you shouldn't bank more than ca. 50° and use rudder in turn direction.

If you bank steeper with rudder use, you may stall sidewards.

 

I think the Pfalz could stand an FM overhaul like the SPADs got. The Pfalz has all the same problems as the pre-1.32 SPAD, plus it loses all its lift if banked more than 45^ or so and just falls out of the sky sideways. I haven't found that particular problem in the SPAD. And, of course, the Pfalz can't zoom or dive as well as a SPAD, although it can turn better when flown by a human.

 

Kudos to anybody who can keep a Pfalz in the air during ACM, let alone survive and get kills in it. IMHO, having flown Fees and SPADs, it's quite simply IMHO the hardest fighter to do well in, given its nasty habits and general lack of performance.

[SirMike1983 3]

I plan on flying some more missions with my favored pilots in 94th Aero. I like what I've heard about the new FM.

[shredward 12]

Mike,

You'll be pleased to know we are rebuilding the American squadrons, especially the 94th. Don't know when it will be ready, but the Yanks are coming!!!

Cheers,

shredward

[Bullethead 12]

You'll be pleased to know we are rebuilding the American squadrons, especially the 94th. Don't know when it will be ready, but the Yanks are coming!!

 

I noticed numerous changes in the Fee squadrons of Bloody April, or have I just killed too many brain cells lately?

[shredward 12]

Flying Sickness R ?

[SirMike1983 3]

I've been flying the Spad XIII more, and I am enjoying it. I still prefer the Nieuports, but I'm enjoying the alternative energy tactics of the Spad. I've gotten thankfully to the point now where I can alternate aircraft between the Nieuport and the Spad campaigns, and succeed with whatever I am using at the given moment. The Spad XIII in this new version flies more intuitively and seems to be set up right when compared to the other aircraft I'm facing. With sufficient energy the XIII is extremely deadly, much more so now than before because you don't have such a high stall speed anymore. You can now employ energy to make high speed dive-turns and wingovers to devastate enemy D.VIIs. Get above them and you've already won half the battle-- the rest is speed and altitude management. You can even employ quick, short turns now to get off better shots.

 

Whereas the other aircraft like the Nieuport feel like a bicycle-- light and very agile, the Spad feels like a big old Indian motorcycle-- heavy, fast and solid. It won't turn as well, but it sure hits hard and fast. Punch the throttle, climb, and you're gone when you feel like it. I think my suggestions from before, in the earlier Spad thread, still hold true generally. But now there is MUCH more room to make quick turns with speed and more little "snap" turn-shots than before. The airplane doesn't wallow anymore, which was its biggest fault in the earlier version. This airplane falls like a rock, climbs like an ape and punches like Rocky Marciano. I can see why in the late war stages the French and American pilots liked it-- you control the most vital question of all: whether the engagement happens in the first place. The D.VIIs can claim all they want about turning and ease of flight, but unless they have a strong altitude advantage you can flip them the bird and show them your asshalf.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I've only tested the new XIII in QC, but I could instantly feel it was much improved over the old one. The lowered stall speed really makes a difference - now I can actually do some proper yo-yos without stalling all the time.

[Olham 164]

A new attitude may be necessary when flying a SPAD campaign.

As Sir Mike said, she's more like an old Indian motorbike than a light bicycle.

 

I tried two QC flights now, where I really boomed and zoomed - I attacked the best positioned DVa,

plastered it with only little turn, and zoomed out; sometimes steep diving and pulling up again, or

only just pulling up - depends on who's around you.

That way I shot several severe bursts into some craft, but without knowing, if I had hit the same craft,

or even downed one. But that's the way to survive a battle.

In a campaign, you can only try then to hit the right number in a claims report.

You think, perhaps I got three, so you fill in three. Erroneus? Okay, try two. Still erroneus? One then.

Accepted. Fine.

I will try to follow this way with my new SPAD campaign, cause my general "I want to down this craft!"

attitude would be suicide, I think.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Olham

[badgerboy 0]

After the new patch, I immediately tried a campaign with 28th Aero. I agree, the SPAD 13 is much improved. I've never been a very good boom and zoomer, but had a height advantage on 3 DVII's and we dove down and I was able to stay on his tail long enough to get a good burst into one of them. I then climbed, came back down and did some more damage before another DVII crashed into me, oh well.

 

Much more enjoyable to fly and I hope more realistic. I will have to force myself to dive away from enemies with a height advantage, however.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Yeh, and don't think you can climb away from the Spads as easily now with the new FM. With their speed they can quickly get under you in level flight, climb, and pepper you pretty good before losing their speed and altitude again. Now THEY dictate the beginning and ending of the battle! Good job OBD!

[Rickitycrate 10]

All of your positive reports makes me glad that I have put off flying the SXIII. Seems when I campaign her I will have better success and enjoyment. Someone needs to tell MK2 about the Super Patch and spad improvement.

[AROTH 0]

Yes, much improved. The previous Spad used to kill all my pilots by stalling into uncontrollable spins.

 

I actually flew two missions the other night and not only returned to my airfield alive, but also managed to down an enemy plane during each fight.

 

There is hope!

[Bullethead 12]

There is hope!

 

Heheh, there's way more than hope! I just spent 10 minutes stall-fighting a pack of D.VIIs on the deck at speeds between 50 and 80 knots. I found I could out-turn them easily without spins, but they had me on roll rate and being able to zoom much higher at these low speeds. When I'd get a D.VII in my sights, he'd go up like an elevator and I'd have to let him go. Conversely, when a D.VII got on me, I'd turn hard enough to hear the wings creak (SPAD wings creaking in a slow, hard TURN ) and get out of his way and onto his tail. It was like Pups vs. Albatros D.IIIs with both mainlining horse testosterone.

 

So for 10 minutes, 13 planes swirled around just above the treetops, getting in a snapshot here and a snapshot there. I put a very few holes in several different D.VIIs and wasn't hit myself. Looking around when the opportunity arose, I saw lot of maneuvering and very little shooting. Nobody died or appeared hurt bad, and it appeared this might go on indefinitely. And then I collided with somebody . I hope it was one of them :yes: .

 

WHEW!!!! I'm still dripping sweat from that .

[Olham 164]

Great to hear you find enjoyment on the fighter side, Bullet!

Yes, the SPAD is now so good, that it makes sense, why it is so well known.

And a fight against DVII must be the hardest, a SPAD could face.

 

My palms are also often wet after a fierce combat - we live this, don't we?

[Bullethead 12]

Great to hear you find enjoyment on the fighter side, Bullet!

 

Ohlam, my ONLY serious bomber career EVER is my current one with Schusta 6. I've tried a couple of missions in all the bombers, but I've found it extremely boring and/or frustrating (and quite nauseating in the Roland). Thus, I've quickly junked those pilots who have survived even a few missions and gone back to fighters.

 

The Fee is a FIGHTER, dammit! I only fly it in fighter squadrons in Bloody friggin' April, and I go looking for trouble with MvR and his whole damn posse, plus any pretenders who dare cross my path. I've got the scars to prove it, but you should see the other guy . It is written, "The path of the Wicked must be the hardest, so that the Wicked may become the Hardest!" My motto is that of one of the Gothas bombing London: "Eisern und Irre!" Or, as Murat had enscribed on his saber, "La gloire et les femmes!" :yes:

 

My palms are also often wet after a fierce combat - we live this, don't we?

 

And gentlemen in England now abed

Shall think themselves accursed they were not here

And hold their manhoods cheap while any speaks

Who fought with us upon St. Crispin's Day!

 

-

Shakespeare,

Henry V

, Act IV, Scene III

Edited August 20, 2009 by Bullethead

[Olham 164]

Okay, the Fee's a fighter. When I speak of fighters, I mean the single seaters.

Flying in those twoseats into German terrain near Brayelles in early 1917, when the man

with the red craft was operating there, you have to be "eisern und irre" (iron and mad").

 

Have fun - and try the SPAD some more, she's fun!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Lately I've been test flying the Spad for my DM, so I thought I'd pop in and give my observations about the current FM of the Spad XIII....

 

I agree with almost all of the above comments about the "new" flight model. With the old FM, flying the Spad was no fun at all for me. Previously, I could barely make a 30 degree banked turn without getting into a vicious stall. Combined with its high stall speed, I couldn't even stay in the air. Now, with the reduced stall speed, even 45 degree or more turns are possible as long as you keep the turn short. You still have to keep constant watch on your air speed, however. Just as the Spad rapidly gains speed in a dive, it loses speed very fast in any kind of a tight turn.

 

I've found that another key to flying the Spad is to use only a little rudder while in the turn. Too much and you corkscrew into a spin. Fortunately, the spin is much less vicious than before, and you can easily recover as long as you have enough height so you can regain your air speed. OTOH, applying just a little rudder in the direction of your turn can also help you to gain precious air speed if you feel you are in danger of stalling.

 

Actually, my favorite way to quickly turn a Spad is to roll over into a wing-over and reverse direction, cutting far inside the turn of the opposing aircraft. This often puts you on the enemy's tail in fairly short order because of your superior climb rate and speed.

 

With the old FM, I couldn't even stay in the air. Now, I am able to engage in dogfights and even win on occasion. Me likey!

Edited March 17, 2010 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Olham 164]

If you want to turn with rudder, you shouldn't bank more than ca. 50° and use rudder in turn direction.

If you bank steeper with rudder use, you may stall sidewards.

 

Yep, Herr Prop-Wasche, as I said: you can turn softly banked, with rudder, or turn tight hard banked, with only elevator.