I was reading what I could find on the sight about the Nieuport11

[Roger55 0]

Now I am probably missing something but this Bebe doesn't feel agile or very hardy. It can't climb well at all. It's turn seems limited and it feels underpowered with that 80 HP Rhone. I'm constantly affraid that I will stall.

 

I'd never do a half loop toward the ground, the way it fights to climb in a regular half loop, I don't think it would survive the stress. It always seems to fall off one side or the other when your trying a regular half loop. So you can't get quickly to an opposite heading.

 

Am I nuts. I'd like to hear what you fans have to say.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I think she's great but what do I know, squat. I have never had her pull a wing off in a dive and for stalling... I find that I work the throttle quite a bit to manouver her around. I find her very agile. My only gripe is that she does not carry many rounds. I always run out of ammo before any other problem. As for never doing a half loop near the ground, why not? You have to push these birds to see what they'll do. You've got more than one in the hangar. If you are not gettting good framerates these planes can be very hard to manouver. Fly in QC and select pilot never dies and see what you can do with her. Best wishes, Jim

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Roger 55, it depends on what you are comparing the N11 to. It was quite agile and handy when up against the EIII, and not too shabby head-to-head with a DII. But it is still an early war bird and so it is under-powered and a bit fragile if stressed too much. As to your half-loop, I would refer you to the following that I posted in another thread:

 

 

 

This is the WW1 Immelman Turn and was the preferred method of changing direction in the early war planes.

 

Also, like Rickitycrate, I find the N11 to handle quite nicely given her age.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[BirdDogICT 3]

Now I am probably missing something but this Bebe doesn't feel agile or very hardy. It can't climb well at all. It's turn seems limited and it feels underpowered with that 80 HP Rhone. I'm constantly affraid that I will stall.

 

I'd never do a half loop toward the ground, the way it fights to climb in a regular half loop, I don't think it would survive the stress. It always seems to fall off one side or the other when your trying a regular half loop. So you can't get quickly to an opposite heading.

 

Am I nuts. I'd like to hear what you fans have to say.

Roger,

 

There a bunch of Nieuport 11 nuts only a couple of hours from where I live http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/index.php. They have a 7/8 scale Nieuport for sale right now for $11K. Volkwagen engine and all.

[Roger55 0]

I think she's great but what do I know, squat. I have never had her pull a wing off in a dive and for stalling... I find that I work the throttle quite a bit to manouver her around. I find her very agile. My only gripe is that she does not carry many rounds. I always run out of ammo before any other problem. As for never doing a half loop near the ground, why not? You have to push these birds to see what they'll do. You've got more than one in the hangar. If you are not gettting good framerates these planes can be very hard to manouver. Fly in QC and select pilot never dies and see what you can do with her. Best wishes, Jim

 

Half loop down. Roll onto your back pull the stick back hard and when you clear the vertical level off full throttle. That's an escape move and you loose any altitude advantage, so run like hell. It's also dangerous because its easy to fly into the ground.

 

That I've done twice. Did it right once.

 

Half loop up. Nose down ,Yank the stick back clear the vertical and when you see the ground above roll over. 30% of the time you catch the guy who turned inside or did an Immalman on you below and ahead of you.

 

When you get near the top of the climb that Nieuport seems to fall off in the direction of the torque.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Roger55

[Roger55 0]

Roger 55, it depends on what you are comparing the N11 to. It was quite agile and handy when up against the EIII, and not too shabby head-to-head with a DII. But it is still an early war bird and so it is under-powered and a bit fragile if stressed too much. As to your half-loop, I would refer you to the following that I posted in another thread:

 

 

 

This is the WW1 Immelman Turn and was the preferred method of changing direction in the early war planes.

 

Also, like Rickitycrate, I find the N11 to handle quite nicely given her age.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

This is a great defensive manuver. But you lose altitude. And I tried climbing to get at an EIII couldn't get there. I use this to run away.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Well, the WW1 Immelman is certainly not restricted to simply a defensive maneuver, and in fact I don't recommend it for that if you have someone on your six as they have a good chance of killing you when you wing-over at the top of your turn. As to the N11 not climbing up to an EIII, it will given enough time. But what will usually happen is the Einies will dive down to engage you, and when they do jinx around a bit and let them slip past you then watch as they zoom back up. You can normally turn into their attack and/or side slip a bit and the AI tends to tail stand the EIII, and when they do be ready for them to fall away, at which point you have the chance to drop on to their six for a quick burst or two as they dive. But do NOT follow them down. Climb back up and come around and do it again because from that point on you can keep the alt advantage with your Bebe and just take you time and your shots when you get them.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Hasse Wind 46]

The Nieuport 17 is much better at everything than the N.11. Eindeckers are no match for the N.17. But I'd still rather go to battle in the N.11 than the Eindecker - you just have to remember these early war planes are really underpowered and they simply can't do such manoeuvres as the late war fighters like the SPAD XIII or Fokker D.VII are easily capable of performing. You'll get used to it, and if you live long enough to get better planes, you learn to really appreciate the improvements they bring with them. :yes:

[Olham 164]

Perhaps you want to try the Albatros DII, Roger? Flying the Imperial "Dark" Forces side?

The Nupes are not my cuppa for one main reason: the terrible sight. You have that triangle

(N 17?), or a kinda protection screen in front of you. They are nice for flying, but terrible for

fighting IMHO. If you want turn fights, the Imperial Luftwaffe can offer you the Fokker Dr.1

(nothing turns better), and the DVII (best overall fighter).

My beloved Albatros versions II and III are good, when they are new designs - a mix of

boom&zoom and turn fighter. When you can shoot precise, they are a great weapon with

their two machine guns.

On the Entente side, you should try the early Sopwith Pup (very nimble, good climb), the

incredible Triplane (extreme turnfighter). the S.E.5a (fastest fighter, good for turning and

boom&zoom, two guns). And the Camel anyway.

 

I am curious how the later Nupes will be sight-wise; maybe more to my taste.

[Hasse Wind 46]

the S.E.5a (fastest fighter)

 

I am curious how the later Nupes will be sight-wise; maybe more to my taste.

 

Olham, the SE5a is slow compared to the SPAD XIII.

 

As to the Nupes, have you ever tried the French N.17 with the Vickers gun? There's no Aldis sight on that crate dangling in front of you blocking the view. If you haven't, give her a try. A wonderful turnfighter for late 1916 and early 1917!

[Olham 164]

Hm - I always seemed to find wrong info on the S.E.5a then. In my chart it is even faster than the SPAD XIII?

 

The Aldiss sight isn't my problem - those struts looking like a headover "V" are. But I'll give that N17 a try.

Are they assigned with "Lewis", when I choose an Esc. for campaign?

[Hasse Wind 46]

It seems to me there are no N.17 with the Lewis gun in French service - I've had quite a few French careers flying the N.17, and always I've had the Vickers version. Maybe it was used only by the British? The Brit N.17 squadrons all seem to have the Lewis version with the Aldis sight, or at least the two RNAS units had that I tried in campaign mode.

 

And yes, the SPAD XIII was definitely faster than the SE5a. Maybe the data you have shows the planes' speeds at different altitudes, and the SE5a was faster than the SPAD on certain altitude?

[godzilla1985 0]

SHIFT + C lowers that windscreen in the Ni-17, I don't know if it works on the Ni-11. I drop the windscreen down all the time in the Ni-17 before entering combat, it makes a BIG differance. If you really want to see something obtrusive wait untill we get the Ni-28, that windscreen is really a view blocker . I really wish we had a MS monoplane to go with the Ni-11 in that time frame, personally I would take the MS over the Ni-11 even if it was a wing warper.

[+Polovski 460]

N11 is very nimble. If you have "Auto rudder" enabled it will probably be a dog. The rudder is very important in these WW1 craft so manual control and use it to start turns.

[Roger55 0]

Sounds like a bunch of fighter pilots. To bad we can't demonstrate what we are saying with our hands.

 

I know there are better French planes out there. But I always start out at Verdun. That's why I am with this Escadrille.

 

Three missions last night. My claim, I got back. Never fired more that 100 rounds and my hit percentages were 9%, 8%, and 9%.

 

What I have turned down in Workshop is the Archie and the Wind.

 

Now I'm wondering about the effective range of this MG. I thought it was 100 yards but I may have that one wrong. Is it really 50 yards?

[carrick58 23]

Sounds like a bunch of fighter pilots. To bad we can't demonstrate what we are saying with our hands.

 

I know there are better French planes out there. But I always start out at Verdun. That's why I am with this Escadrille.

 

Three missions last night. My claim, I got back. Never fired more that 100 rounds and my hit percentages were 9%, 8%, and 9%.

 

What I have turned down in Workshop is the Archie and the Wind.

 

Now I'm wondering about the effective range of this MG. I thought it was 100 yards but I may have that one wrong. Is it really 50 yards?

 

 

According to Wikipedia: The Lewis Machine Gun had an effective range of 880 yards

an a max range of 3,500 yrds. with that said it all depends on the ammo. The 303 rds of the time were the 1st of the smokeless powders and had a lot of inconsistancies. The powder used was codrite M.T.D. according to UKonline which depending on storage conditions Dampness, , ect affected the propellents burning rate. Different burning rates effect the velocity of the bullet and if it will fire at all. in the game, ???? 100 yards maybe. U tube has a lot of machinegun videos Lewis and vickers among them But they are useing more modern ammo stiil fun to watch.

[Roger55 0]

Between the three missions I flew today I did a little research in the sim. The aircraft have their Lewis guns set for a convergence zone of 100 yards. So I would think that's the supposed effective range. Out beyond that I believe there will be very few hits.

 

The three missions I flew were very wierd. Number one loaded a camera in my wingman's plane and we flew a penetration to take pictures. Nay an Eindecker came up to greet us.

 

The second mission I was on my own looking for trouble i.e targets of opportunity. So there are air fields and troop columns but I'm expecting trouble, so I don't want to waste any of my 197 bullets. I wait as I fly the course. On the way the engine makes me more and more drowsy . I nod off a second and the next thing I see is the ground. I try to recover but that stalls the plane; so, Lannes goes West.

 

So I go back to the main and try to create another pilot. Now I'm getting fatal error messages. Finally the sim tells me to reload. I reload. What happened? I don't know.

 

Began to think I should have shot up the troops at least.

 

Now I have a new pilot. Mission, go have my wing man take pictures of an airfield. This provocation ought to bring some opposition up. Nope. When I land (yes I land and my gear don't collapse) I haven't fired a shot.

I still have 197 bullets.

 

Now I guess there are yet to be any recon/bombers for the French. Do I need them to bring up Jerry.

 

Two things I notice though about the sim. Im flying over the north German Salient (Very active Artillery). The French line is labeled the "British front line" What? I'm passing over Morte Homme! There are about 100,000 French and Germans dying for that hill.

 

Next the pilot pages, about a third of the page is cut off a good portion of the time when you look at it. Don't ask me???????????????????????????????

 

Do you have to set the opposition activity to heavy to get a rise out of the Kaiser's Airmen?

 

Yesterday they attacked the field as we set out. A pair showed up when two flights flew a penatration. I another pair passed over so high we couldn't get at them. And wher are their recons?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Roger55

[SirMike1983 3]

N.11 and N.17 are my bread and butter airplanes-- both are very agile on the whole. The 17 is a true fighter through and through, the N.11 is more an improvisation of a quality racing airplane with a machine gun mounted to it. The N.11 was actually originally supposed to be a Gordon-Bennett racer, but the war cause the race never to be held. But the French worked out a system where they could mount a machine gun to the upper wing.

 

A lot of work with these is done with the rudder. Neither has a vertical stabilizer, just rudder. Roll rates are mediocre without the rudder, but using the rudder to get you started will go a long way. The elevators are very powerful, and this is where you can get into trouble with the lower wing snapping in a high g maneuver.

 

You can do an inverted loop dive maneuver safely. My strategy is to roll inverted, then cut the engine back to min throttle or else use the blip switch. Then make a steady pull on the stick-- nothing severe or sudden. The plane comes right around quickly and effectively. Done correctly the lower wing will be fine. Then as approaching level again, peg the throttle back to full and execute your turn.

 

Everything with the elevators is done with a firm, steady hand. Jarring tugs will cause structural damage. Sustained high speed dives will cause damage too-- use the falling leaf trick to lose altitude FAST if you really need to do that. You can also glide a LONG way with these. Stall speed on the N.11 is especially low as the aircraft weighs next to nothing.

 

Shooting distance is very close, especially on the N.11. I'll close to within 20-30 yards and open up on the engine and pilot with the Lewis on the 11. If I draw too near, I cut the engine back and stick close behind. With an E.III you can do this. With Albatross aircraft, keep using your turn against them-- especially at low speeds. I've shot down Alb D.III and D.V aircraft regularly and with little difficulty in both the N.17 and the N.11. If you can get the speed of the fight down and keep a steady turn you WILL defeat any Alb pilot who tries to turn with you, including a D.III or a D.V. You can usually lure the AI into these fights with enough coaxing. The v-strut Albs are much better fighters than the D.II, but they do suffer from being somewhat heavy and sluggish at very low speeds. This is where the Nieuport is most deadly. The Nieuport is very much a slow speed turn and burn airplane, though you can't max your elevators out or pull in a severe or sudden manner. Steady and smooth with the maneuvers will take you a long way. Remember to get within spitting distance in the 11.

 

As to Verdun specifically-- in early 1916 at Verdun the Germans have nothing that can come close to you. You should be faster and more maneuverable.

 

It's best to avoid prolonged engagements with Dr.Is because they can turn quite fast on you and have out outgunned. It's possible to outrun a Dr.I in an N.17 if you know what you're doing with the mixture. The N.17 seems to have a little bit better engine performance than the Dr.I does. Hopefully you're not facing Dr.Is in an N.11 (you shouldn't be anyway). Facing a D.VII is something I've done in QC and had good success by keeping in mind the slow speed turning of the Nieuport. It's all about making the most of your low speed turns against faster airplanes.

 

The 11 and 17 are gems.

[Olham 164]

Roger, the closer you can get, the more hits will you make, and the more devastating

will they be. Most lethal range would be to hit from 50 - 100 feet.

My rule is: the less enemy craft around, the closer can I get, cause I have time and space.

When in a furball, I fire from longer distances, to damage as many as possible, for the sake

of my wingmen.

When you are good at shooting, you can still hit a craft even from 450 - 600 feet.

If not, 50 - 100 feet should be a good range.

[Roger55 0]

SirMike1983, that was a really complete and concise descriptions. Thanks.

 

Olham, do you really mean feet? The xpd file gives ranges in yards (little smaller than a meter). That MG is set there for 300 feet; that is 100 yards. The entry is in the weapons line and reads "100."

 

Stock Spitfires in CFS3 are set at 200 yards and the US planes at 300.

 

100 feet is 33.34 yards. One dimesion of my house's lot is that long.

It's also 110 degrees F in the shade out side; so, I won't see if I can hit something at that distance with a pellet gun (.177 air pump).

[RAF_Louvert 101]

I'm pretty sure Olham meant feet Roger55. SirMike said he gets within 20 to 30 yards before he opens up on the engine and pilot, and that's about as close as I get before I fire as well. Olham's point about not attempting to get this close during a furball is wise as you will likely get shredded by your prey's wingman if you dilly-dally too long for the shot. A good number of the accounts written by WW1 pilots indicate they tried to get as close as well before firing on an enemy plane, to increase their chances of a kill and not waste ammo.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

Yes, I fire at enemy craft over longer ranges than usual, often deflection shots, and had good success with that.

It's in my blood by now, no gun sights, just knowing, where the enemy will be, when you rounds arrive.

 

But when the in-game numbers are yards, then I have made my longest-distance kill at 650 yards? No, that must

be feet there, or not?

[Roger55 0]

Yes, I fire at enemy craft over longer ranges than usual, often deflection shots, and had good success with that.

It's in my blood by now, no gun sights, just knowing, where the enemy will be, when you rounds arrive.

 

But when the in-game numbers are yards, then I have made my longest-distance kill at 650 yards? No, that must

be feet there, or not?

 

wow! I once pumped a burst into a ME109 at about70 yards. It blew up showered me with debris and wrecked my engine and and control surfaces. I was completely out of control and bailing out killed my pilot.

 

On another thread I reported how I lost a pilot when I rammed an Eindecker trying to turn away from a close pass . Tore off his tail and my wing tip.

 

You gentlemen must be some fliers to be firing from 33 yards and 10 yards. Glad I'll never meet you on the the web. Conection is too slow.

 

I am genuinely amazed.