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76.IAP-Blackbird

Saabs Cobra

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Didnt realise this fighter was so manouverable! Just wondering how much Gs do the pilots take when doing the cobra manouver? It looks like quite a few

 

Mike

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to be honest, I believe that horrendous.

There's nothing Sexy.

 

For a plane to fly well has to be aesthetically beautiful

 

Marcel Dassault

 

I like to say the phrase in Spanish, is best.

 

Para que un avion vuele bien tiene que ser esteticamente bello

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The Draken would have started the club as its a 1950's - 60's jet no fly by wire etc... as to does it look sexy hmmm good point the single seater does look fantastic but the trainer variant here different question the cockpit makes it look all wrong... my 2 pence worth thrown in...

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The Draken rocks !!!! One of the better Mach 2 fighters of the sixties and seventies. Beautiful clip too, including nice shots of Ängelhol AB / F10 Wing and a lot more nice SAAB stuff on the same Youtube page ....good.gif

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Derk grin.gif

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Okay, does everyone understand that the Cobra (or, before the russians did it, the 'hang and look') is not some special manuver? That anyone can do it if the aircraft has specific characteristics and entry parameters are met?

 

First, let's look at the aircraft without TVC that can do a Cobra...notice anything similiar about them?

 

Yep, they all have large LERX profiles. What this allows is higher AOA, because it delays boundry layer separation...which still allows generating an upward pitch moment at a higher AOA than a conventional wing layout.

 

The Cobra is simply being able to generate enough of a pitch moment with large, fast moving elevator surfaces, rapidly gaining AOA. On a conventional wing, it stalls sooner, killing the pitch moment at an eariler part of the pitch up, stopping the nose moving up. On a wing with a large LERX, the wing stalls significantly later, allowing more moment to be generated, so that by the time the wing stalls, the nose has a enough momentum to continue past the stall AOA.

 

At that point, those large elevators are now acting as big barn doors, making a pitch down moment, causing the nose to fall back down. Usually, the pilot can help with this as the elevators move down and start generating lift, while pushing up the engines to gain speed back.

 

It also helps if the center of lift of the wing is close to the CG of the aircraft...that way as the AOA increases, the CL point moves forward (because boundry layer separation usually proceeds from trailing edge to leading edge), which helps the pitch moment.

 

Does everyone ALSO see that this can only be started in a specific speed range? Too slow, and the elevators won't generate enough momentum to get the nose to fly past the stall AOA. Too fast, and you'll over G the aircraft and yourself.

 

What TVC does for you is allow you to generate that moment at significantly lower airspeed because the engines are now helping generate the moment.

 

What this also means is that there are other aircraft than can do this manuver, but simply don't. There is video of the F-14, F-17, F-18 all being able to do this without TVC. Even the F-16 could probably do it (maybe, it's LERXs are pretty small) if the software restrictions were relaxed.

 

So, yes, the Cobra is interesting, but not some uber cosmic manuver. Hell, I've done a smaller version of it in a T-38 where I've gotten the nose to fly past the stall limit while not changing my flight path significantly and recovered back to normal flight.

 

FC

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What FC said...

 

But going back to the Draken love-in we have going, its a shame the Germans picked the starfighter over it. I still believe the Draken was a superior aircraft in almost every way...

Edited by Hokum

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The F-104 was a hot rocket, but I don't think it was ever really threatening to anyone except for some of its pilots. It very well might have been a better choice for Germany to get J-35s, but politics trumps ability more often than not.

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I just love Drakkens! But maybe I'm just biased because I'm part Swedish. Still, it's a blast to fly in WoE.

 

I, for one, am not much impressed by the Cobra Maneuver. It looks impressive, the way trick shots in billiards look cool. But just like trick shots, you need a perfect setup for it to work. The opportunities to use such a tactic in real combat would be so rare that the cobra maneuver is a non-factor. If an Su-27 is flying so slow in combat that it "could" do this, then the Flanker becomes easy meat for missiles and roving Eagles. A good pilot wouldn't let that happen.

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They're really nice planes, just not so good at shooting down Apaches...

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4PncAMXnDQo

 

JK, Drakkens and Viggens are still some of my fav WoE birds...

 

 

Looks like at least a draw because at least one Apache won't fly again....... Clip doesn't show what happend to the Draken though with the Stinger going after it..... Nice flying and nice filming anyway

 

Hou doe,

 

Derk bye.gif

Edited by Derk

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