RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 Currently on eBay there is a full set of original WWI medals that have been collected as a duplicate of Baron von Richtofen's funeral cushion medal bar. While it is exorbitantly expensive, it is still worth a look. MvR Medals Display Now, since most of us will never have the ready cash for such an investment, I've assembled the high quality pics posted of this great item and placed them into a display case so folks can at least have it as a screensaver. The medals are, from left to right: 1. Iron Cross 2nd class Prussia 2. Order of the House of Hohenzollern, Knight's Cross with Swords Prussia 3. Military Order of Saint Henery, Knight's Cross Saxony 4. Order of the House of Ernestine, Knight's Cross 1st Class with Swords Saxon Duchies 5. Order of Military Merit 3rd Class with Crown and Swords Bavaria 6. Order of Military Merit Knight's Cross Wurttemberg 7. Duke Carl Edward Medal with Swords Sax-Coburg-Gotha 8. General Honor Medal for Bravery Hessen 9. Cross for Faithful Service Schaumburg-Lippe 10. War Merit Cross 2nd Class Brunswick 11. Hanseatic Cross Lubeck 12. Hanseatic Cross Bremen 13. Hanseatic Cross Hamburg 14. Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with War Decoration Austria-Hungary 15. War Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration Austria-Hungary Cheers! Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickitycrate 10 Posted October 6, 2009 Very interesting and good to see. Nie details. Your frame makes the bid item look much more attractive. Herr Olham has something to keep fighting for. His Blue Max needs company. I expect any time now to see that he received it in the mail. One time I saw some Fokker DVII fabric on ebay. I can't recall how much it sold for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itifonhom 6 Posted October 6, 2009 A great collection indeed although I must say, I'm a little sceptical about it. As I read those are originals but where do they come from? I can understand that maybe they never being awarded to anyone, just lying in a box but they actually are awarded I find it kind of pitty. Behind every medal there's a story, an extraordinary one most of the times and it's sad to forget it just for the sake of a collection. But still impressive what the Rittmeister accomplished! itifonhom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hauksbee 103 Posted October 6, 2009 It puts a whole new face on his accomplishments. But, I notice there is an Iron Cross, second class, but no first class. I'd have thought the first class would have awarded soon after. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baldric 42 Posted October 6, 2009 Quite impressive collection. I agree with Itifon though that it would be nice to know the stories behind that particular collection's (not as an ersatz MVR 'collection') individual piece. I imagine that MVR's medals, if in private hands, would likely grace Christies or Sotheby's rather than eBay, would be worth a small fortune. As I've no idea what became of MVRs awards, I can only hope they have a resting place in a museum at least where everyone has access to see them. Nice pic Lou, huge thanks for sharing as I've not seen those before in that manner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . As noted in the eBay listing, these original medals were collected together over the course of many years, so they no doubt came from many different estates and individuals. It is unfortunately not uncommon to come across an original WWI-issued medal or honour with little or no history attached as to who it belonged to. While this is less so with the British awards as they were more often than not inscribed on the edge with the name of the recipient, it still happens far too often, IMHO. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . CJ, if I'm not mistaken the OPl'M was displayed separately. I think they normally are, at least from what few German medal displays I've seen. Cheers! Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six 2 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Well, if you can afford that, you might want this to accompany it. It is not anywhere marked as original cloth, but it COULD BE (cough)(Cough) (COUGH) http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14 Whilst the medals are obviously not be touted as those awarded to MvR, they ARE WW1 original issue. This piece of cloth is obviously attempting to snare some FOOL into thinking they have an original piece of fabric from 425/17. (Or IS IT ? COUGH!!!) PS...just as an aside, some years ago whilst I was researching in the Australian War Memorial's great reading room, I happened to come across the personal photo album of an Aussie pilot of WW1. (Lt George Pickering, 3 Sqn AFC) (http://cas.awm.gov.au/privaterecord/3DRL/3134) Some great pics there, turned the page, here's a few newspaper clippings of MvR's funeral and an arrow pointing down to one of the pallbearers simply captioned "ME". Looking up, there was a piece of blood red doped linen fabric just lying loose in the album. NO! Can't be! Yes, it can, and was. I got a hold of "my contact" down there and told him of the find. Subsequent checks proved this to be a piece of fabric from 425/17, identical in every way with fabric they have STORED (not displayed!). It's still there, in that album, but now secured to the page and covered with a thin plastic film. Edited October 6, 2009 by Check Six Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . Oh yeah CheckSix, I'm ordering two of those babies. One for myself and one for the Red Baron Museum in Marshall, Minnesota. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six 2 Posted October 6, 2009 . Oh yeah CheckSix, I'm ordering two of those babies. One for myself and one for the Red Baron Museum in Marshall, Minnesota. . At only $100, why not get three? Wonder if the serial number will be on all three pieces? Gee I HOPE so! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted October 6, 2009 I'm more the Udet fan really, but I must say, he seems to have got them all - except for that Iron Cross First Class, Cameljockey mentioned. Was that perhaps only for higher ranks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 Well, I did some checking, and as I suspected not all medals and honours of the German, Prussian, and Turkish empires were displayed on the medal bar. Neal O’Conner’s article, “Orders, decorations and medals awarded to leading German airmen”, (found in Cross and Cockade, Volume 11, #3, 1970), notes that Richthofen ‘s funeral cushion had the following decorations: (worn separately on the uniform) Orden Pour le Merit - Prussia Order of the Red Eagle, 3d class, w/Crown & Swords - Prussia Iron Cross, 1st Class - Prussia War Merit Cross, 1st Class – Lippe Order of Bravery, 4th Class – Bulgaria Imtjaz Medal, w/Swords – Turkey Liskat Medal, w/Swords – Turkey War Medal (aka Iron Crescent/Gallipoli Star) – Turkey Pilot’s Badge – Prussia Pilot’s Badge – Austria-Hungary (worn together on the order bar on the uniform) Iron Cross, 2nd Class – Prussia Order of the House of Hohenzollern, Knight’s Cross w/Swords – Prussia Military Order of St Henry, Knight’s Cross – Saxony Order of the house of Ernestine, Knight’s Cross, 1st Class w/Swords – Saxony Order of Military Merit, 3d Class, w/Crown & Swords – Bavaria Order of Military Merit, Knight’s Cross - Wurttemburg Duke Carl Edward Medal, w/Swords on Band – Sax-Coburg-Gotha General Honor Medal for Bravery – Hessen Cross for Faithful Service – Schaumburg-Lippe War Merit Cross, 2nd Class – Brunswick Wound Badge - Prussia Hanseatic Cross - Lubeck Hanseatic Cross - Bremen Hanseatic Cross - Hamburg Order of the Iron Crown, Knight’s Cross, w/War Decoration – Austria Hungary As you can see MvR pretty much had them all. Cheers! Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickitycrate 10 Posted October 6, 2009 At only $100, why not get three? Wonder if the serial number will be on all three pieces? Gee I HOPE so! I like it! My bid is $2.49, oh and make one for my pal too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . Oh, I'm going at least a five spot on that relic, so you best be ready for a bidding war Rickitycrate. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . I knew I had the pic somewhere showing a replica of MvR's funeral pillow honours display, and here it is: I believe this display is, or was, at the Burbank Aviation Museum in California. The card in the corner notes that this collection of original orders and medals was badly damaged in a fire in 1978, and then restored back to usable display condition after that incident. Noticeably absent is the Orden Pour l'Merite, but that may be somewhere higher up in the case and out of the camera shot. Also of interest is the Order of the Red Eagle, (Roter Adlerorden), at the middle top of the pillow. I seem to recall that this was the only honour given to MvR that he never got to wear, as he was killed before he was officially presented it. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) I've always had a bit of a 'Problem' with Medals for some reason. I feel, that although they are justified for acts of exceptional Valour... I feel everyone who found themselves fighting in World Wars deserve all those medals too. (except the Generals...many of whom deserved nothing more glorious than a firing squad!) Edited October 6, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six 2 Posted October 6, 2009 A regular at the Aerodrome put together this replica of MvR's Ordenkissen some time ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 Very nice Check Six, very nice. Love that Turkish Star. WM, most everyone who has served in the armed forces during a time of conflict has medals of some sort to show for it. As you know, service medals were and are presented to those who serve in a specific campaign, for a certain amount of time, for exemplary "general" service, etc. Plus there are numerous ribbons awarded as well for such things as overseas service, or for being an active member with a first-rate squad. It's when you get into the citations and even higher, the honours and orders, that things can get a bit more political from time to time. I agree that all those who willingly and faithfully serve should be honoured for it, and most of the time I believe that is done fairly in the various armies, navies, and air forces. While serving as the CoC of the virtual 209 Squadron I did get a small taste of what it must be like for real adjutants and general staff officers to sort out who should be awarded what for which action, and I'll tell you it can be a real bear trying to sift through the stacks of reports and recommendations during any given battle. Trying to maintain fairness and equity in the awards in all situations is about impossible, despite anyone's best intentions. Cheers! Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six 2 Posted October 6, 2009 "Based on the single piece value of just the Hohenzollern, the St. Henry & the Ernestine, the rpice is pretty good at $3,500.00 Of course that assumes they are all original with enamel intact, but the Hohenzollern and St. Hnry Alone almost add up to $3K from whet I have seen of recent prices." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . Oh yes, they are VERY spendy. It's not a poor man's hobby, that's for sure. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
appraiserfl 0 Posted October 6, 2009 Beautiful! Anybody know where I can buy replicas of WWI medals? I would love to make a collection like that for my home office, but I don't wanna drop three and a half thousand dollars to do it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 . appraiserfl, there are several very good suppliers of replica WWI medals, but even those items are not cheap. A good replica of something like the OPl'M or Red Eagle are going to run a minimum of $75 or more each, and some museum-grade replicas will sell for several hundred dollars. But still, it will be WAAAAY less expensive to build the display with the replicas, and will look very nice when you are done. Cheers! Lou . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
appraiserfl 0 Posted October 6, 2009 . appraiserfl, there are several very good suppliers of replica WWI medals, but even those items are not cheap. A good replica of something like the OPl'M or Red Eagle are going to run a minimum of $75 or more each, and some museum-grade replicas will sell for several hundred dollars. But still, it will be WAAAAY less expensive to build the display with the replicas, and will look very nice when you are done. Cheers! Lou . Hey Raf, any good links of places I can look to buy. I googled but the searches kept taking me to ebay...Im kind of looking for a one stop shop with quality replicas.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted October 6, 2009 Give me a few minutes and I will find my list. And I forgot to mention, Wagner of Berlin made excellent replicas of the German awards, and if you can find those you will be off to a good start. The Blue Max I presented to Olham for winning the recent "What's My Plane?" contest was a Wagner medal, and it was beautiful, and I found it in an online auction where I was able to purchase it for only $35.00. Don't dismiss eBay. Cheers! Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
