OT Wet Weekend

[Bullethead 12]

I don't buy the 'everything is fine' argument, but nor do I accept 'We're f!!**ed and it's all your fault!' argument either.

 

In this we agree.

 

I DO believe the climate is changing. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that any human activity has a damn thing to do with it, because the Earth has gone through much more violent extremes before there was such a thing as a primate, and even later once people just like you and me were alive but were just chipping rocks. Folks these days bemoan all our car exhaust, but forget that paleolithich man used to burn off entire continents every year or so. I'd say the old guys, though fewer, make more smoke than we do now and if not, they were damn close. Plus, if you look up in the sky on a clear day, you'll see this completely unshielded nuclear reactor that's thousands of times larger than this whole planet. I'd blame that long before I worried about such puny things as humans do.

 

I also believe that humans have caused some pretty nasty things in the environment. More in the former USSR and Red China than anywhere else, but even in the US things have been bad in places. For instance, I love me some raw oysters, but I can't eat them anymore due to all the diseases they now carry from exposure to sewage from the Mississippi River. Nor do I eat any fish higher in the foodchain than bottom-sucking catfish due to mercury in the upper predacious fish. In the 1960s, I had the misfortune to live in the Los Angeles basin when you often couldn't see more than a few miles due to all the smog. This hurt my lungs and the resulting chronic bronchitis (and the drugs I took for it) ruined all my permanent teeth which were developing at the time. And I watched smog appear over Dallas, where nobody believed it was possible, based on the LA model they then had. So yeah, that's all bad, and I'd like to see that stopped.

 

My big problem is that the pseudo-science of "climatology" is taking over the world. "Climatology" is a new "discipline", as in only 2 decades old at most. And while the majority of climatologists might agree that humans are causing climate change, the majority of meteorologists, whom have been steadily working since paleolithic times, do not.

 

Consider this.... Meteorologists have steady jobs. They work for TV and radio stations, they work for private industry, they work for government agencies, etc. Climatologists, however, exist solely due to government research grants. And they only way they can get those grants is to promote the agenda of whoever they get their grants from. The people who hand out these grants are all socialists or worse, who are looking for ANY excuse to obtain government control over more of industry and private life. They figure the best way to do that is to present an issue as in insoluable problem without absolute goverment control. Hence, the panic-mongering. There are also those who just want to see the US socialistis destroy their own economy, so are egging them on as best they can. And seriously, how can ANYBODY take "climatology" seroiusly when that idiot failed lawyer named Al Gore, who has exactly the same amount of technical expertise, training, knowledge, and competence as a steaming pile of cow manure, gets a Nobel Prize for pimping it?

 

I don't know if it's us who's changing the climate, but we are most certainly changing our world by plundering our wilnernesses to drive species to extinction by hunting them to the brink, destroying natural habitats, taking out important links in the food chain. It's everywhere. Even our cute little Puffins are in trouble because we harvest the sandworms they eat for fertiliser. I like the world as it is, complete with it's tigers, whales, eagles, bears, gorillas, rhinos, snow leopards, polar bears and every other critter who's only crime against us was being born.

 

99.9% of species that have ever lived are now extinct, and 99.9 percent of extinct species died out before humans were in any position to kill them off.

 

From what I understand, the main cause of the puffin's problem is that seagulls (rather smart, adaptable, and expansionist birds, BTW) have recently moved into their turf. The poor puffins are a rather inefficient design for sea birds, with their short, stubby wings. They therefore expend beaucoup energy flying far out to get fish, more than a seagull would, and when they finally get home with it, the bigger seagulls just steal from them. This mostly happens at nesting season, when the parent puffins are eating only enough to get by due to having to feed chicks. As a result, both chicks and parents are starving to death in huge numbers.

 

I rather like puffins--they're cute little things. However, they're not the best design for the job, at least not as good as seagulls are, so are losing out in natural selection. Sad to see it happen, but that's why so many species that have lived before do so no longer. Seagulls do everything puffins do, but do it better. The same could be said of us monkeyboys and our competition, which is why we're now in a position to wring our hands over all this.

[Flyby PC 23]

But if you could clean up the world, I don't understand why you wouldn't. What's the down side?

 

Puffins are just an example, and the problem definitely is that we now hoover up sand eels on a commercial scale far in excess of the rate they can recover. There's not enough left to go around, and they starve. If there is new competition from seagulls, and they've lived side by side for generations, then ask yourself what was it which drove seagulls from their traditional feeding habits. The whole ecosystem is in trouble.

 

We all need farming, but something we're doing to the environment is killing off our bees, but we charge on regardless doing the same things without taking the time out to learn what's going wrong.

 

We don't have to stop doing anything we do currently, but we do need to learn how do it sustainably. Right now, collectively as a species, we're running out of control. If we can't feed ourselves, then maybe we need to count how many of us we can feed and conduct ourselves accordingly. The alternative is grim.

[Flyby PC 23]

I'm not defending Iran Uncleal, but count how many continents there are speaking Arabic vs a European language.

 

'Western culture' has a track record of colonisation which scares the s**t out of Asia, because there's only Asia / Middle East left.

 

How canny would you feel with Iraqi or Chinese carriers patrolling your coasts and skies whether you liked it or not? As a culture, I think we forget how threatening we appear. The Middle East has it's Israel, and China it's Taiwan. From their perspective, the enemy is already at the gate.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Flyby PC

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, call me an old cynic (cos that's what I am)..But the whole issue of Climate Change (and I dont deny it's happening, but then, it always has been happening) seems to me to be used in a cynical way by the power's that be.

 

I can't see the fat cats or the politicians doing any 'real' work to bring it under control.

Yes, they sit around in boardrooms, speechifying about 'cutting emmisions here' and 'Saving energy for future generations' there...but what are they REALLY doing?

 

Raking in Taxes as far as I can see!

You get fined in some areas of Britain, if you put your Tins in the wrong collection boxes...the price of an Air Ticket is due to soar, putting budget airlines out of business, in favour of the 'Big Boys'...'Green Taxes'..hmm...a Tax on people who can't afford it!...the poor people, who can only afford a 10 yr old car..getting hammered...whilst the fat, rich, greedy bastards of the world, can drive around in their Big,more efficient Greener Cars (yeah right!) and can smugly look down on the rest of us, in their 'holier than thou' way and their "I saved the Planet' way!

 

It's just the same old crap...this is the modern version of the Medieval Church!

 

"Yes, you will suffer now,,,but think of the rewards for the future!"...."We are stinking Rich, and you plebs have a turnip to last a week!....But think of the rewards you will get in heaven"

 

The wealthy will continue to live in their good old fashioned Debauched way...whilst the rest of us pay for their priveledge!...Climate Change is merely their new bandwagon...and BOY are we going to pay for it?

 

You can put as many tins in the recycling box as you wish...it aint gonna stop Global Warming.....the only thing that is constant..is Change!

 

The Planet has seen some monumental changes in it's history....It will still be here long after every Human Being has ceased to exist!

 

It's a shame we won't get to see it of course....but one thing is for sure..it will be a much more green and pleasant world..once we've gone!

 

 

OH..and whilst I am in a particularly cynical mood!...here's one for you!

 

What is the WORST thing that could happen to a Cancer Charity?

 

Yep, you guessed it!...Someone finds a cure for Cancer!

 

Another fat cat losses their Job!

 

F*ck them all!

Edited November 24, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Ah...that's better!...nothing like a good rant!...I have had a delicious, hot cup of Tea now...and the World is great again!

[Olham 164]

??? I had expected this thread to be about the wheather. But it is rather politics. ???

[OvS 8]

It's the "Chaos Therory" at work... you know a butterfly flaps it's wings... etc.

 

The huge Glaciers melt.. the water has to go somewhere... either into the atmosphere as water vapor, or into the ocean as water, either way, matter only changes it's state, it does not disappear.

 

Here in Long Island, the south shore beaches are smaller, the Salt Marshes in the Great South Bay are slowly disappearing at high-tide, there is very little room from the parking lot to the ocean beach... it's all changing.

 

Sure, we can call it cyclical, we can call it Global Warming (Climate Change)... but whatever you call it... it's changing, faster than ever before.

 

It simply becomes more shocking to those that have not experienced any effects, then suddenly there is a lot of rain, flooding... errosion, mud-slides.. then it's the same quote... 'first time in history this happened here..." etc.

 

Meanwhile, it's been slowly happening everywhere.

 

Where heading for something big, but what... who knows. But the Earth is definitely changing.

 

OvS

[Rickitycrate 10]

Some 10 years ago I saw a program on PBS that was about the past climates. I can't recall all the details but what they did was they took ice core samples from Iceland or northern Greenland and anaylized the contents, chemicals present in the ice strata. The most recent ice of the last 5,000 years or so showed a fairly consistent level of carbon and whatnots that indicated a relatively stable world that they said allowed for man to flourish. Prior to that recent period the strata indicted wide swings of chemicals for thousands of years that indicated all life was challenged to succeed and/or thrive. My take away message was that nature is master of such things. Man is a bit player IMO.

 

You will not find me being a delibrate polluter but rather someone that picks up after others. On my way into a store I stop and pick up some of the litter that's usually laying about. I conserve water use at home and on and on. I rejoiced to see the wind turbines that were erected on Maui as I do think we can be much smarter about our resources. I want a car that requires no fuel, so on. But Ecology is not my religion nor do I think governments have the solutions. These things need to be addressed in the world of free markets of supply and demand.

[rwmarth 0]

Alright give it up. Politics make this forum very unpleasant to visit. So do I have to bash Rise of Flight for someone to stop the ugliness here?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Oh Look...It's started to rain again!

[Flyby PC 23]

I hear the pitter patter of little feet coming to close the thread....

 

Sorry admin, my fault, taking us off an already off topic subject.

 

No politics gents, we know the rules. Let's all behave.

[themightysrc 5]

FlybyPC,

 

"No politics gents, we know the rules. Let's all behave."

 

Well, if Al's is the general level of political comment on this forum, then it seems rather pointless trying to engage on a factual level. Looks like some people would rather believe propaganda and wild supposition than debate backed up with evidence. And, as I pointed out previously, I wasn't the person who dragged politics into the thread. I'm afraid it rather looks as though political sloganeering is quite acceptable here - so long as you hold a particular political stance.

 

Right then - can someone lock the thread to prevent any more pointless jpegs getting posted?

[Fortiesboy 3]

FlybyPC,

 

I'm afraid it rather looks as though political sloganeering is quite acceptable here - so long as you hold a particular political stance.

 

Right then - can someone lock the thread to prevent any more pointless jpegs getting posted?

 

There is an element of truth here, actually. Funnily, it seems that the first political viewpoints don't attract the calls "to keep politics out" - It's only when the opposing views are posted !

(Until then, mods etc don't see any conflict, I suppose. )

 

Same when religion subjects are referred to. !!

 

Either

A post should be flagged soon as one or both of those, religion or politics, rears its head- or

 

let the thread run so long as there is no personal attack? If it's a thread you don't like, then you don't have to visit it.

 

But don't infer that the problem is being caused by the responder to the thread, for responding.

[Mr. Lucky 0]

 

 

I don't want to live in a unheated cave, eating berries. Even Fred Flintstone had some amenities

Yeah! He had that hot Betty Rubble next door to look at through the blinds!

[Flyby PC 23]

It's not what's been said or posted, but said or posted here.

 

Take it to the pub gentlemen. - http://forum.combatace.com/forum/5-the-pub/

[shredward 12]

Oh Oh, the Thought Police have arrived:punish:

 

A fairly innocent looking thread, and I never thought to have a look. Just goes to show.

You guys know the rules. Don't make me come back here!!!

[Mr. Lucky 0]

Uh oh..sorry...Betty Rubble is not hot. She is a modern independent woman who is recognized for her intellect and abilities and is not to be regarded as a sexual object.

[themightysrc 5]

"Merely one statement and I'm done.

 

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it" "

 

A pity it has no relevance to your original comments.

[shredward 12]

OK guys,

I'm gonna spell it out.

No politics. No religion. Nothing personal. And nothing I don't want my five month old daughter to see or hear.

We're done.

the shredder