shotdown 8 Posted January 20, 2010 Sports is a different animal. Teams make money by selling tickets and merchandise. How much you win or lose really has little bearing! In theory you'll sell more when winning vs losing, but in reality grand personalities and other drama can be more beneficial than a top record. You're right, it's not the same. But it's annoying anyway:mad::mad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted January 20, 2010 As far as the RAF is concerned and this IMHO we should ditch the A-400M and buy more C-17's and C-130J's eases costs the Aircraft are proven and there is a cadre of people who look after them now.. So now we throw in a halfway house plane which can do half the job of the C-17 and none of the job of the C-130J (ie short field rough landings I know they say it can do short field dirt strips but would you want one flying around that close to the frontline ???) The A-400M is a disaster over budget and too expensive hell the price they will be asking of it next is near enough the same as buying a C-17 or 3 C-130J's... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macelena 1,070 Posted January 21, 2010 As far as the RAF is concerned and this IMHO we should ditch the A-400M and buy more C-17's and C-130J's eases costs the Aircraft are proven and there is a cadre of people who look after them now.. So now we throw in a halfway house plane which can do half the job of the C-17 and none of the job of the C-130J (ie short field rough landings I know they say it can do short field dirt strips but would you want one flying around that close to the frontline ???) The A-400M is a disaster over budget and too expensive hell the price they will be asking of it next is near enough the same as buying a C-17 or 3 C-130J's... It is not a matter of wich is a better aircraft in short term, but of building an industry. Compare the outcome of the first "Eurofighter", the Tornado, with that of the Typhoon. Perhaps it is not the best way, but it has to be done. Reminding me of the post of shotdown, it would be like buying football stars (GlobeMaster, Hercules), as Real Madrid, but not investment on rookies, as Barcelona. The latter is doing better. It will take some time, but the aircraft industry in the EU needs to operate this way on some projects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted January 21, 2010 As far as the RAF is concerned and this IMHO we should ditch the A-400M and buy more C-17's and C-130J's eases costs the Aircraft are proven and there is a cadre of people who look after them now.. That statement almost single handedly sums up the decline of the British Aerospace industry over the past 60 years. They used to produce real, practical innovation at every turn. Then after a while, political, then industrial, then economic pressure influenced (with the associated lack of political foresight) then led them to buying US equipment augmented slightly to assist UK industry somewhat. Now it just can't compete and this multinational approach won't either, if projects like this and the Eurofighter are the future. It's a shame really, because this will be a great aircraft, just like the Eurofighter. It's just that the political and industrial processes are killing it. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Something all the military services in the UK are experiencing too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) That statement almost single handedly sums up the decline of the British Aerospace industry over the past 60 years. They used to produce real, practical innovation at every turn. Then after a while, political, then industrial, then economic pressure influenced (with the associated lack of political foresight) then led them to buying US equipment augmented slightly to assist UK industry somewhat. Now it just can't compete and this multinational approach won't either, if projects like this and the Eurofighter are the future. It's a shame really, because this will be a great aircraft, just like the Eurofighter. It's just that the political and industrial processes are killing it. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Something all the military services in the UK are experiencing too... National aircraft programs in Europe are no longer sustainable, due to the rise of costs and the (somewhat related) reduction of demand. France may seem to be an exception here, but given the desperate attempts of the French government to find additional buyers for their Rafale that exception might not last much longer. This may be the armchair aircraft designer in me speaking, but while I'm willing to admit that the Eurofighter might be a decent design I still think that the A400M is either too big for a mere tactical transport or too small for a strategic airlifter. And I do believe that it's still plagued by numerous technical difficulties despite the fact that it did not fall apart during its first flight.... Edited January 21, 2010 by Gocad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vigilant 1 Posted January 23, 2010 And I do believe that it's still plagued by numerous technical difficulties despite the fact that it did not fall apart during its first flight.... I've just read that it suffered and engine failure during the flight... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,356 Posted January 25, 2010 Same info i got here in Germany. The test pilots had a problem with one of the engines. To solve this problem they would have had to switch of this engine and restart. But in the case that the engine wont restart they would have had to land with a stopped propeller and this would have been interpreted as an obviously failure by the public. So the test pilots decided to let the engine run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted January 25, 2010 Hmm, nothing like jeopardizing safety for public opinion. Then again the debate on securing vs. using the engine could go on for a bit as well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted January 25, 2010 Always fun to watch how long secret info can remain secret. Then again, I guess that reports about A400M engine problems shouldn't cause that much of a shock. Wink, wink. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Bring back the Lightning and TSR-2... oh the Labour government scrapped the TSR2... and the Lightning survived by the skin of its teeth... I think the comment was it was too advanced in development to scrap it... Going back to the A400M yes its too Big for Tac Air and and too small for Strat Lift which is why I stated we ditch it in favour of C-17's and C-130's as our wonderful leaders have left us with no Aerospace at all sorry that was Labour again... Scrap the TSR2 for F-111 when that proved too costly we had to struggle on with Canberra's hmm make a good replacement for Tornado's better ranged etc oops better shut up otherwise the Government might scrap me instead... Edited January 25, 2010 by Slartibartfast Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted January 25, 2010 Hmm, nothing like jeopardizing safety for public opinion. Then again the debate on securing vs. using the engine could go on for a bit as well... Well, it would depend on what the engine problem was really. A small sensor glitch probably isn't a big deal (ie the N1 sensor shows zero, but the engine is running just fine). However, I know that in the C-130 (a 4 engine turboprop), an engine problem is a BIG deal...the main concern is that if the engine locks up while the blades are flat against the wind, you now have a big drag device as well as a loss of thrust on the same side of the aircraft. Obviously, a C-130 guy (Dels?) could fill us in on the details of such a thing, but I know oil malfunctions for engines in the C-130 are 'shut it down right the hell now' events. I have no idea if a similiar issue would exist for the A400M, in that technology has significantly advanced since then. Realistically, it really would depend on the specific problem that they encountered. It honestly could have been very minor, especially with all the extra test equipment I assume would have been on the aircraft. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gocad 26 Posted January 26, 2010 The A400M engines have been a major problem in general so far. Political bickering aside, due to the requirements of the aircraft these engines need to be quite powerful....and Airbus had severe problems getting those installed and running properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted January 26, 2010 FC, your second point was the one of my concern, a big ass airbrake holding you back with all of that drag, especially on an untested engine & airframe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
