New in WOV need advice

[UnknownPilot 33]

I think I see what happened.

 

For some reason (that I really can't explain), I thought 7zip would take all the files and extract them all as a unit. So after I double clicked part 1, told it to extract and waited, I thought it was done (with all content from all 4 files). But it seems each of the 4 must be extracted. Am I ever embarassed.

 

Also, after I read that readme, I see that the MiG-17 FM update is from MiGBuster and Fubar, so I'm guessing it is that download I linked to earlier. :)

 

I wiped out my mods directory, had SF2:V recreate it, and am working on properly extracting (all) the files. Will try again. :)

[UnknownPilot 33]

Yep. That was it. So it's all fixed now. :)

 

BTW, I'm seeing large white squares around shore lines and river beds. Any idea what that is?

 

I did not apply the 5th part, the terrain updates, this time, because this pack kills my frame rate, and I thought it might be the new maps, but it wasn't, frame rates still took about 40-50% hit, I've turned almost everything but the cockpit detail down to medium or low and have it in the mid 20s now so it's playable.

 

One thing I noticed was that in a night mission, the frame rate was still low, but it was stormy and when I got above the solid overcast, the frame rate jumped into the 50s! I figured it would increase, but the amount surprised me. So it's something with the new maps in the expansion pack. However, I must say they look fantastic!

 

I am using the ENBSeries dll. Previously that gave me nearly 50% more frame rate under given settings, on the stock game. Any thoughts on how to reclaim some frames? Does widesky consume many? I was ok with it before, so perhaps I could turn that off if it'll increase fps any. (just thinking out loud)

 

I'm trying to avoid dropping res. Currently at 1280x960 (desktop res) on a GF 6600 and P4 3.2 (2GB). Prior to this pack, I had tried dropping to 1024x768 and didn't see an increase in fps, but did see a drop in quality, so I went back up.

 

Also.... I just gotta say, that Starfighter is something else! So much speed, acceleration, and a roll rate that would make a 190 blush. Plus it pulls some good Gs too with the speed it's able to get and keep. And it likes to get high, and stay high.... and fast.

 

Always did love that thing, but now, even more-so. I had been diggin' on the Phantom since I was inspired to pick this up, but in a straight up A2A fight... I dunno, I think the 104 has it in spades (assuming the enemy is close enough for it to reach with those short legs lol)

 

Is the lock/track mode in the 104's radar CRT supposed to be missing the closure ring? It's not there on mine and I'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be or not. (do wish I could clip or retract that fuel probe, I know it needs it, but it spoils the lines of the missile [with a man in it]....but I'm just rambling here)

 

Just been messing around with some of the content in single missions so far, can't wait to try the campaign.

 

A HUGE thanks to all involved in this Expansion Pack.

[+eburger68 201]

UnknownPilot:

 

I'm going to leave it to others to address your graphics issues (large white squares, ENB Series, & frame rates), as I either haven't encountered those issues or don't use the ENB Series.

 

Eric Howes

[toonces 4]

I'm starting to feel like I'm stalking you unknown pilot!

 

The white squares are due to your terrain detail setting. I got them too when I cranked down some of the graphics settings to try to improve my framerates.

 

When things start popping around Hanoi, my framerates go way, way down. I'm still trying to figure out the optimum settings (going down to 1024x768 didn't help me either).

 

I haven't seen a noticable improvement using that EMB thing.

[UnknownPilot 33]

I'm starting to feel like I'm stalking you unknown pilot!

 

The white squares are due to your terrain detail setting. I got them too when I cranked down some of the graphics settings to try to improve my framerates.

 

When things start popping around Hanoi, my framerates go way, way down. I'm still trying to figure out the optimum settings (going down to 1024x768 didn't help me either).

 

I haven't seen a noticable improvement using that EMB thing.

 

 

Hehe, no worries Toonces. If all stalkers were as helpful as you people would brag about having them. ;)

 

Interesting, and it makes sense too. I guess I'll just have to live with it, not that big a deal really. I just can not afford a new system now (or any time soon) so I'll have to make do with some oddness.

 

You have any thoughts on Widesky? I've heard great things about it, and it does look great, but... does it eat frames? Would turning it off bump up my fps any?

 

Regarding ENB Series, it seems totally hit or miss. I tried it anyway and on the stock game with my settings it took me from the low 20s up to the low/mid 30s. Was great. Then I upgraded my nvidia drivers from 190.something to the latest (195.62 IIRC) and didn't see the fps change any. But with this Expansion pack it dropped to the high teens/low 20s if I'm up high. Lower if in or around a city. So I turned things down more and brought them up to the low/mid 20s. At least it's not choppy anymore, but ideally for a flight sim, high 20s/low 30s are about the minimum one should have I think.

Edited January 6, 2010 by UnknownPilot

[nicosagr 0]

Thank you eburger68 for the clarification regarding the Gold Pack.

 

 

 

I had found out though already myself. For anyone else who still flies the WOV (2004) what I did is

 

• Pure install of WOV
• Install patch wov_p1
• Install patch wov_p2
• Install patch wov_p3
• Install patch wov_sp051506a
• Install patch wov_p083006

(as per the readme in patch 0830 the patches between 0515 and 0830 are not required (included in 0830))

 

• I made copy in C: / of the whole directory Wings over Vietnam (this cane handy when during upgrading to the Gold pack I did a mistake (did not do exactly what the instruction in readme was advising) and ended up with flying transparent airplanes.)
• Download and unzip all 3 parts of the Gold Pack suitable for the version of WOV I have (eburger86 clarifies that in a previous post in this topic)
• Copy and paste (with overwriting) all directories and subdirectories and files as directed by the readme in Part 1.
• Because I had patched only up to 0830 of2006 and did not have patch 1020 of 2008 installed (I did not know even its existence except if that patch is the WOV_Update_Oct2008b (around 109,311 KB)), I had to continue one more step and copy paste (with overwriting) the contents of folder 2006 in Part 1 directory into my installation directory (it is mentioned clearly in the readme).

 

And at last I was able to fly again.

 

 

 

Now having said all that and having clarified the installation issue as well as the dog-fighting (remember, never merge in turning combat with MIGs,; always take it to the vertical, separate, re-engage if fuel/armament allows), there is one more area to ask for your expertise.

 

 

 

Bombing. How do you do the bombing? First of all how do you aim your target (I am talking about F-4C II, that I am using at the moment) Is the aiming retackle of any use. And what profile do you use just before the bombing? Do you pop up like the books referring to that era describe?

 

 

 

cheers

 

 

[xclusiv8 35]

Stealing your thread just for a quick question. If i destroy a SAM-site in the campaing, will it be there in the next mission or is it gone forever?

Thank you

[+EricJ 4,245]

From what I understand yes, it shouldn't show up again.

[xclusiv8 35]

From what I understand yes, it shouldn't show up again.

 

Thank you Eric :)

[UnknownPilot 33]

Bombing. How do you do the bombing? First of all how do you aim your target (I am talking about F-4C II, that I am using at the moment) Is the aiming retackle of any use. And what profile do you use just before the bombing? Do you pop up like the books referring to that era describe?

 

I've not actually gone A2G in an F-4 yet (even though it is quite arguably just a bomb truck), because I prefer to use the dedicated strike craft for that role (A-7, A-4, A-6, F-105, etc). However..... it would really end up being much the same.

 

Have you ever done any WWII prop simming? If so, ever done any ground attack in them? It's really the same thing (with some of the parameters being slightly different).

 

If not, you have to basically just practice and work on finding a technique that works. There are some methods that allow you to do low alt level bombing, involving speed, approximated distance and alt AGL. The good news is that Navy planes give you a TAS reading along with a RADAR altimeter. So then the technique involves lining up level at a set speed, and knowing where the target should be in your view for you to release and have your bombs hit. Part calculation, lots of experimentation (unless someone else has already done the work). [basic idea being that the bomb will fall at a known rate, thus taking a calculable time to fall from your given altitude, and at your given speed, will have to be dropped a given distance out]

 

Personally, I dive bomb. Just more intuitive for me, and overall easier. It's not without it's downsides though (having to pop-up into enemy air defense RADAR, risk of hitting the ground, or being caught in your own blast, etc). In a prop, what I would do is come in from several thousand feet in a fairly steep dive, and know that I could pull out very late. In a jet.... because of the AAA you don't want to be that high, so you have to do shallow bombing. I do use the reticle, but know that the bomb will fall short of the aim point, so I aim a little higher, guestimate, and rely on the blast radius.

 

It works. I've had more success in A2G than A2A. The stats claim that I am missing with my bombs, but the targets are blowing up, I'm getting kill credit and the missions are being accomplished.

 

Hope that helps. Just work on getting the stick time.

[nicosagr 0]

Thank you unknown.

 

I 'll practise on both (low level and dive bombing) ways.

 

cheers

[Romflyer 25]

Thank you unknown.

 

I 'll practise on both (low level and dive bombing) ways.

 

cheers

 

have a read through this http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_055a.html I found it to be very helpfull, there are two techniques there so be sure to see both.

 

Also be sure to get "The Range" from the download section, it's a great place to practice bombing.

Good luck

Rom

[UnknownPilot 33]

Thank you unknown.

 

I 'll practise on both (low level and dive bombing) ways.

 

cheers

 

 

Here's something that should help that - http://www.bunyap2w1.com/Range_SFP1.htm

 

I have seen reference to it here in the forums, but just found the download today. I plan on downloading and installing it tonight when I get home.

 

I wish I could offer more "by the numbers" steps, but honestly, I never really bothered to learn it that way. I just started doing it and kind of building an intuitive 'skill' for it. And in all honesty, I could probably do better if I actually did it in a more scientific method.

 

Another technique, which is even harder to master, is lobbing. I've mainly seen it used for skip bombing shipping in IL2 (though you don't need to lob it to skip bomb there, technically), what you do is come in very low, and pitch up and release, essentially "lobbing" the bomb up into an arc. The advantage here would be that you could be pulling up and turning away to avoid the blast, while still allowing you to be cutting the grass with a standard bomb type. however.... it contains more variables and is much more difficult.

 

Some other things to note :

- For level bombing - Retarded bombs will not travel as far, so you will have to release closer to the target, but you can be lower. Standard bombs will not slow down near as much, so if you are too low, you may still get caught in the blast radius.

 

- Try to line up on your target length-wise if you can. ie, if it's a ship, hit it from stem to stern or vice versa, rather than broadside; hit an armor column or row of tanks (fuel/oil/water/etc) inline with the row, rather than across it, etc. This way, if you are a little long or short you still hit your target.

 

 

An interesting links - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toss_bombing

 

I was trying to find a chart, or even a step by step guide for IL2 (just because it's computer-less, fixed site, unguided iron delivery), but came up emtpy.

 

I know I basically outlined this above, but partly for my own benefit, want to re-touch and expound a bit:

 

If you are at 1000ft Above Ground Level, your bomb will take [t = √(2alt/g) = ] about 8 seconds (7.9ish).

 

If you are travelling at 300kts at the time (TAS), you (and for practical intents and purposes, your bomb) will travel [1Kts = 1.68781 feet per second] approximately 4,050.7 feet forward.

 

Which means, at that speed, and height, you would need to drop 4,050.7 feet from your target. However, the question is, what would you see at that alt, that far from your target? Depends on the downward view. If you could find, or determine, the angle of view from your pilot's virtual eyes, you could then determin just how far ahead of you something could remain visible before disappearing beneath the nose, this would be varied by altitude (simple triangle geometry). So from that, you could then play with speeds (available to you) and altitudes to find the right combination to hit your target every time based on a chosen reference point, be it the reticle, or upper dash frame. In fact, you could further modify that to line it up, count X number of seconds then release, and still be just as accurate. Again, the key is knowing that angle and what it means at your chosen altitude above ground level.

 

Trouble is, I don't know where to locate that last piece of vital information. So that's where trial and error come in, and why I tend to just guesstimate and rely somewhat on intuition and utilize a dive.

 

I really would like to be able to do it level though, would make things so much easier (and safer).

 

And all this goes largely out the window with the retarded bombs, as they pop drag brakes upon release, so then you need to know just how much they slow down, which will be based on initial release speed, and it just gets a bit more complex.

[UnknownPilot 33]

Regarding the Bombing Range terrain... I downloaded and installed it tonight. I noticed it was for SF1, not SF2, so I knew there would be a little more to getting it to work.

 

I pointed the installer to the SF2 mods directory, then looked and found that it made a "terrain" directory next to the "terrains" directory. So I moved the contents from the singular to the plural, fired it up, and sure enough, the intercept missions ARE there.

 

But... how do you use the bombing part? There are no specific bombing missions. Am I missing something in the install, or do you just have to load bombs and go hit something, ignoring the target drone (and the mission parameters, getting a "failure" result)? Even in that case though, other than the F-4, there are no attack craft present, no F-105, no A-1/4/6/7, etc. Come to think of it, there's no F-104 either (from the fighter side).

[+EricJ 4,245]

Click on Create Mission, select your bird, year, mission (Strike), terrain (Range) on down, and then at the bottom right, click "Accept"

Edited January 8, 2010 by EricJ

[Luiz Carlos 0]

Dogfighting with fast and heavy jets demands the mastering of energy management technics.

Avoid to do hard turns with high Gs , you only will loose all your cinetic energy doing this.

Try to fight with high speed , using high yo-yo to loose speed ( turning cinetic in potential energy) to avoid passing your enemy.

Use snapshots to down Migs ( the Vulcan cannon are ideal to do so, with their high rate of fire)

F4s are in fact the perfect Mig killers once you learn to manage their advantages and minimize it´s weaknesses.

They are fast, bad and armed to the teeth.( very ugly bastards too)

I think they do the most of aerial kills in Vietnam.

F8 kills only 13 aircraft in Vietnam ( I have to check this information I read this other day , can´t remember where)

Edited January 8, 2010 by Luiz Carlos

[UnknownPilot 33]

Dogfighting with fast and heavy jets demands the mastering of energy management technics.

Avoid to do hard turns with high Gs , you only will loose all your cinetic energy doing this.

Try to fight with high speed , using high yo-yo to loose speed ( turning cinetic in potential energy) to avoid passing your enemy.

Use snapshots to down Migs ( the Vulcan cannon are ideal to do so, with their high rate of fire)

F4s are in fact the perfect Mig killers once you learn to manage their advantages and minimize it´s weaknesses.

They are fast, bad and armed to the teeth.( very ugly bastards too)

I think they do the most of aerial kills in Vietnam.

F8 kills only 13 aircraft in Vietnam ( I have to check this information I read this other day , can´t remember where)

 

 

From the games perspective (for however well the various things are modeled), I have to disagree that F-4s are "the perfect MiG killers". Yes, they are fast and powerful, but... that only takes you so far.

 

Used effectively, the F-8 is actually more deadly against MiGs (17s anyway, but that's my frame of reference as I typically use only the F-4B w/gun-pod, I like the early stuff). If the F-8 had just a bit more thrust, it would be nigh-on perfect.

 

Also, the F-104 is in a whole 'nother league, it simply blows the F-4 out of the water (so to speak) when it comes to air to air combat in this era of flaky missiles. Faster, better thrust to weight, and despite the wing-loading, perhaps because of the thrust, or perhaps because of over enthusiastic flight modelling (I'm not sure), it actually ends up being more agile than the Phantom, and it's roll rate is unmatched (roll is important, ask Spitfire pilots about the introduction of the FW-190 lol).

 

The F-104 and F-4 share a common negative point though, fuel - lack of it. As great as the power of the Phantom is, it's actually difficult to use it, because the flight to target is so long that on the one hand you've used most of your fuel already, and on the other hand, need most of what's left to get home, so you can't really linger and play. And because it turns like a brick, you almost NEED to use that power in a method similar to what you describe.

 

When it comes to energy fighting though, it's so much more than simply going up and down. A high (or low) yo-yo is only as effective as the turning capability of the plane. In other words, if you can't turn around in the horizontal, you can't turn around in the vertical. So by the time you get a brick to come around, all you've really done is waste fuel. Unless the enemy is stupid. Even if he can't even hope to come close to your climb, he can still watch you, and while you're floundering near stall, or even trying to get over the top, can nail you. Or run away. Or zip around to stay out of your sights as you struggle to regain air speed. This is where the F-8, F-104, and honestly even the F-100, do better. The real problem is that none of them have Sparrows, nor the level of ground pounding ability that the F-4 has.

 

Depending on how you match up, and how your plane behaves, energy fighting can be as simple as staying above the enemy (not climbing in the fight so much as entering it above, and staying there, making him fight uphill and on the verge of stall). This seems to work pretty well with the F-100 and F9F-8. The F-104 as well, mostly because it just rockets up and likes to stay there. lol

 

It's also about who sees who first - the classic "boom n zoom", dive down at great speed, slash through them, and then, depending on your plane, either run away flat (often called hit and run), or zoom climb back up (true classic BnZ).

 

There's many ways to do it, and it's more involved than even that, hard to discuss really, especially in just one post. But it really boils down to seeing the enemy as early as possible (and preferably first), maneuvering into a better position, and then smartly holding onto that position, utilizing a lot of knowledge of his planes abilities, and your own (plane's abilities), and how they stack up against each other (as that will always dictacte tactics). And it is always most effective in many on many engagements. But that means that almost any plane can "energy fight" almost any other plane. If that MiG-17 comes in high and stays high, and you doggedly hit the burners and try to climb after him, thinking the power of your thrust is unlimited and makes you invincible, he deftly moves around, and waits for you to stall or pull out of the climb, then fills you full of green tracers.

 

 

Probably one's greatest asset here, IMO, when it comes to taking out enemy aircraft, is your wingmen. Your #2 is useless at covering you, but can be used to double team 1 target, and help tilt the odds faster, while #3+ can be unleased on the whole enemy flight or brought in on 1 target.

 

Click on Create Mission, select your bird, year, mission (Strike), terrain (Range) on down, and then at the bottom right, click "Accept"

 

 

Ah... Well that was obvious enough, doh! lol Thanks. :)

[+EricJ 4,245]

No problem!

[charlielima 328]

Hey Nico welcome aboard. Strap on a Skyraider so you can get some SA on what it is like to be the slower but more maneuverable guy in a gun fight. That and once you kill a jet in a piston slapper your life will be awesome.

CL