The X was the Y of its day...

[themightysrc 5]

Because i know you lot like arguing and chewing the fat concerning the planes in OFF, I thought it might be nice to stretch your imaginations a little bit. The title should be self-explanatory: as far as I'm concerned, the Bristol Fighter (the X) was the Mosquito (the Y) of its day, the BE2c was the Fairy Battle of its day. Got the picture?

 

Right, let's go!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

YIPEE!...great excuse for a tussle!

 

OK...Sopwith Camel was the Spitfire and the SE the Hurricane...and the Albatross?...well...just a rather ugly bird really! (c'mon Olham...let's be having you!)

Edited February 19, 2010 by UK_Widowmaker

[themightysrc 5]

Hi UKW,

 

That was my first thought - the Camel being the Spitfire of WWI - but I thought better of it because the Spitfire was somewhat more forgiving. I'm trying to think of a highly agile WWII fighter that was considered to be a bit dangerous to its pilots. The Typhoon or Tempest perhaps?

 

You're quite right about the Albatros though: the looks of a Stuka but none of the performance.....

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Hi UKW,

 

That was my first thought - the Camel being the Spitfire of WWI - but I thought better of it because the Spitfire was somewhat more forgiving. I'm trying to think of a highly agile WWII fighter that was considered to be a bit dangerous to its pilots. The Typhoon or Tempest perhaps?

 

You're quite right about the Albatros though: the looks of a Stuka but none of the performance.....

 

hahahaha...Yes...I'm almost scared to even mention the Snipe anymore!...but that seems to feel like a Spit MK VIIII to me

 

Yes, the Albatross would be better called 'The Lame Duck'

 

The DVII has to be a Focke Wulf 190 surely?

Edited February 19, 2010 by UK_Widowmaker

[themightysrc 5]

"The DVII has to be a Focke Wulf 190 surely?"

 

Yep, that one occurred to me as well. Pretty apt, I'd say.

[Akmatov 1]

I'm trying to think of a highly agile WWII fighter that was considered to be a bit dangerous to its pilots

 

I think the Chance Vought F4U Corsair was known as the 'ensign killer' or something similar for its unforgiving attitude to inexperienced pilots.

 

 

And maybe Albatross D III = Bf 109? Earlier than the FW190, but in the right hands quite the kick-ass aircraft.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Akmatov

[Olham 164]

Yep, the Albatros would compare to the Bf 109, which was also a great craft at the beginning,

but in the late G-series, it was outdated, like the Albatros D V and D Va.

The Bf 109 G 6 was still a very good fighter, and both, the late Bf 109 and the Albatros D V

were still very dangerous in the right hands, of course.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Sopwith Camel... definitely Spitfire in terms of handling but more Hurricane in terms of kills... hmmmm and the SE-5a was definitely a Spitfire in terms of speed but a Spitfire in Dogfighting at altitude... interesting question here....

 

The German side seem more balanced as Olham says Me-109 as DV DVa and the Butcher bird for the DVII

 

Remember though that a plane that is of medium ability with a good pilot will always beat a fantastic machine with a poor pilot...

[MikeDixonUK 5]

Gotha would be a Heinkel 111 I suppose.

 

SE5 as a Hawker Tempest perhaps?

[Dej 17]

Gotha would be a Heinkel 111 I suppose.

 

SE5 as a Hawker Tempest perhaps?

 

Ah, well if the Gotha is the HeIII then the Straaken would have to be the He177 Greif, wouldn't it? Or maybe a FW Condor. The HP 0/400 must be the Lancaster. If we can have aircraft swap sides then I'd pitch the Fee as the Me110. Outclassed almost from the start but very long-lived and fond of defensive circles . The Spad XIII for the Jug perhaps?

[Rickitycrate 10]

Is the Spad XIII the P51? With Salmson being the B17?

[Bullethead 12]

My log on the fire, taking no account of the nationality of the WW2 planes. All analogies also completely ignore the firepower question. This just goes to flying characteristics vs. the opponents of its day.

 

FE2b = Fairy Fulmar

Bristol Scout = Boulton-Paul Defiant (mostly for cock-eyed gun, not strictly performance which really ain't bad)

DH2 = Polikarpov I-15

DH5 = B-25J strafer mod (for weight)

N11 = Polikarpov I-16

N16 = LaGG-3

N17 = Mitsubishi A6M2

N24 = Mistubishi A6M5

N28 = Spitfire IX

Pup = Macchi C.202

Tripe = Macchi C.205

Camel = Kawanishi N1K2

SE5a = Spitfire XIV

SE5a Viper = Lavochkin La-7

SPAD VII = Typhoon

SPAD XIII = Focke-Wulf FW-190D9

 

Albatros D.II = Grumman F4F

Albatros D.III = Grumman F6F

Albatros D.V = Bf-109G

Fokker E.III = Bell P-400

Fokker Dr.I = Nakajima Ki-43

Fokker D.VIII = Nakajima Ki-84

Fokker E.V = Lavochkin La-5

Halberstadt D.II = Hurricane I

Pfalz D.III = Seversky P-35

 

 

 

 

 

[Dej 17]

Crikey BH, you need to get out more!

 

Actually, because I'm looking down your list and nodding or thinking 'I'll check that one out'... I need to get out more. La7 = SE5 Viper - I like that one. Loved the La7 in IL2.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Halb = Hurri mk 1?...I don't think so.

 

Halb is crap...Hurricane Mk1 is pretty good

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Though..thinking about it...the MK1 was not particularly good really...it was the MK2 that was good!..OK, I'll give you that one back BH

[Bullethead 12]

La7 = SE5 Viper - I like that one. Loved the La7 in IL2.

 

The La-7 was a great plane, but it's horrible in MP games. It's in Aces High, and from the moment it was introduced it became the dweeb ride of choice, because it had an excellent ROC, was one of the fastest planes in the game, could turn like a Spit IX, and had a nose full of cannons for concentrated destruction. IOW, it broke the delicate balance between stallfighters and E-fighters. As a result, at least 2/3 of the planes you encountered in any given sortie were "Lamers" or "L-Gay7s, as we called them. Nobody with an ounce of self-respect flew them, and constantly flamed those who did. There was also a constant campaign to try to get HTC to "perk" the damn thing. I hope they did eventually. The endless herds of Lamers was one of the reasons I quit playing the game.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Bullethead

[Dej 17]

...

It's in Aces High, and from the moment it was introduced it became the dweeb ride of choice, because it had an excellent ROC, was one of the fastest planes in the game, could turn like a Spit IX, and had a nose full of cannons for concentrated destruction. IOW, it broke the delicate balance between stallfighters and E-fighters. As a result, at least 2/3 of the planes you encountered in any given sortie were "Lamers" or "L-Gay7s, as we called them.

....

 

I could believe that, though I never flew IL2 MP nor played Aces High. The LA7's superiority in IL2 SP even did become boring after a while. I spent my last play hours in IL2 flying Macchi 202s against 112 Sqn. Kittyhawks (or Tomahawks. P40s whatever )... that was fun.

 

A pity that 112 was on Home Defence in WW1. It'd be cool to fly with them in OFF, especially as one of their earlier commanders was Quentin Brand who went on to be Keith Park's equivalent in 10 Group during the BoB.

[Bullethead 12]

The LA7's superiority in IL2 SP even did become boring after a while. I spent my last play hours in IL2 flying Macchi 202s against 112 Sqn. Kittyhawks (or Tomahawks. P40s whatever )... that was fun.

 

 

Ah, the 202... I also enjoyed that plane--it was in Aces High as well. Only me and maybe 3 or 4 other folks ever flew it, and none of us very often, because in the main arena it was usually just hopeless in a sky full of late-1945 uberplanes. But if you chose your fights correctly, it was effective enough, and you could talk major smack about your successes .

 

In Aces High, some planes (as alluded to above) are "perked". The perk system went like this... Most planes were freely available but some planes were perked: things like the Me262, Me163, Tempest, Ta-152, Spit XIV, (and hopefully the Lamer). Each perked plane cost X perk points to fly. If you survived the sortie and landed safely, then you got your perk points back. If you didn't make it back to a friendly field, you lost those points. You gained perk points by doing damage in air-to-air combat, and the worse your plane was compared to the enemy's, the more points you got. But in the normal course of events, where everybody was flying essentially equally badass late-war rides, it might take you a month of steady flying to afford a hop in a 262.

 

This is where the C.202 was awesome. It had the about lowest rating in the game (for good reason), so anything you managed to kill with it earned you beaucoup perk points, especially if you could land safely. And some arena maps had this central area designed for tank battles, where some guys would go to jabo all the tanks they could find. Usually they'd fly some late-war, high-value p38, P51, or P47 version loaded down with 2-3 bombs plus rockets to maximize the number of tanks they could kill. So I'd circle the friendly tanks just above the treetops and pretty soon here'd come a jabo dweeb totally fixated on tanks and all sluggish from carrying so much ordnance. 1 good lead-turn up and into his belly--he'd never know what hit him. I'd do this 2 or 3 times, then go land and rake in the points. Do this just 10 times and a 262 was mine .

 

Check out the cool green C.202 skin I made for AH. All the better to hide in the treetops with

[Flyby PC 23]

Wracked by brains trying to enter into the spirit of the thread, but what occurs to me is how limited your options were in WW1. Not just in aircraft design, but typical deployment. (It might be my own shallow knowledge too).

 

I also agree that the Hurricane was just as much the thoroughbred fighter as the Spit, but maybe just not as pretty. When called to action however, it was the Hurricane which trully 'did the business'. I like Hurricanes, almost as much as Mossies. I ok with the Halberstadt D.II comparison, it was an early fighter deployed with considerable innovations, superseeded later in the war. The big difference the Hurricane was a battle winner on an altogether different scale, and punched well above it's weight. Even when withdrawn as a front line fighter in Europe, it saved Malta in it's darkest hour, and went on to clobber armour and shipping in the Med with considerable distinction.

 

I'm ok with the Mossie / Brisfit comparison. That's a good fit I reckon. I'm pretty sure the pilot would land his Bristol and tell his observer, "You know, I still want to go faster...."

 

 

I don't know much about the Lavochkin 7 in it's IL2 context, but it was a bit of a beast in reality. More than a match for the FW190 - which is really saying something.

[zoomzoom 2]

Perhaps the Siemens Shukkert could be compared to the FW-190 as well in its exceptional performance....only the numbers fielded were nominal.

 

S.

 

Nice exhaustive list Bullet. Quite comprehensive.

 

So then, dare I say it, could we compare the "VunderVeapons" of the Me-262, and the Fokker DVIII?

Edited February 22, 2010 by zoomzoom

[catch 81]

Sopwith Camel... definitely Spitfire in terms of handling but more Hurricane in terms of kills... hmmmm and the SE-5a was definitely a Spitfire in terms of speed but a Spitfire in Dogfighting at altitude... interesting question here....

 

 

I woud opt for the Camel = Hurri and Se5a = Spitty myself. The Camel was a slowish but well armed workdog, the Se a spirited, fast and robust thoroughbred.