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SlickWili

Lomac V1.02 Patch Update

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Here's the latest update from Carl on the status of LOMAC v1.02.

 

Unfortunately, he had to begin the post by addressing all of the UBI forum members that flame-closed Matt's status update the previous day. It is quite sad that it has come to this. I can just imagine what the beta-testers are all feeling right now; anxious to deliver a top-notch patch to the public, frustrated by the dastardly bugs that continue to crop up with each successive beta, excited because they know they are so close to final release, morbid because it is taking so long.....

 

Anyhoo, here's the post from Carl:

Ok, everyone take a deep breath.

 

I realize that some of you are impatient and frustrated because the V1.02 patch has taken so long to finish. Nobody wants this patch finished more than those of us working on it. Our team in Moscow has been working very hard as have the testers.

 

Many of you people seem to want a paradox to occur. You complain about bugs and problems but then you also complain that the patch has not been released. You can't have it both ways. Do some of you really expect us to release the patch when we are aware of a problem? We are working to fix the problems we have identified. Trust me, I am confident that there will be something we missed for you to complain about, but in the meantime, we are going to fix the bugs we have found in our testing effort.

 

This next paragraph is for the naysayers and crybabies: We are doing the best we can. If some of you can't be patient and feel you have been treated unfairly then why waste your time here? Please leave if you can't act in a civil manner. Lashing out at us is counter-productive. If any of you armchair developers think you can do a better job then fill your boots.

 

I understand that Matt Wagner posted an update yesterday that he eventually deleted because a few asshats decided to flame the thread. What a pity.

 

Because I don't believe all of you should be penalized by the actions of a few morons I am providing an update of our status in this posting. But, none of us are interested in comments so I am going to ask that the updates be locked from now on.

 

Beta 14 had several problems that we felt needed to be addressed before being released:

  - A problem with one of the Training Missions continues to be frustrating.

  - A problem with re-spawning in MP.

  - A problem with fuel quantity after jettisoning external fuel tanks.

  - A problem with the lock range for the AGM-65D

 

All of the above have been addressed in Beta 15 which we hope to be receiving very soon.

 

I'd like to tell you that Beta 15 is it but we thought Beta 12 and 13 were going to be "it" only to find that a few annoying problems were introduced requiring new builds. Sometimes we take one step forward and two steps back. It is the nature of software development.

 

We hope 15 is golden but I am not going to count on it as I have seen setbacks occur too many times to be overly confident. This takes time and we are doing our best to finish it correctly.

 

Presently I'm very busy on a multitude of things and will not be as active on the forums this week. Do not be surprised if I don't address your question or concern.

 

For those of you being patient and supportive, we thank you.

 

Carl

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Although the flameworthy contest at ubi is uncalled for,it is not hard to understand how it happens. It has been a patch in the works now for a long period of time and they keep getting reports of how well the beta is progressing with the pictures of a successful testing period and then boom. IT HAS Problems. Gotta go with a rebuild and then the posting of the new test information......... All over again.

 

It can be spelled FRUSTRATING....

 

Looking good,,,,,,, Psych... :D

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Yes, the dangling carrot routine gets a little tiresome after a few... err... months.

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...especially when you consider that they themselves consider that this patch will get the sim to 1.0 standard - 6 months(?) after release?

 

Hopefully 1.02 will not leave anything crippled.

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Here's a copy & pasted post I just saw on UBI's LOMAC forum.It's already been censored out of existance,but I had to agree with the poster and her frustrations.She pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

"Still no patch to bring this f***ed up "so called" flight sim up to the level of efficiency it should have been upon release to the public.6 months after release and these pathetic developers still can't get it up to par.At this point expectations are that the game should have had all the bugs worked out and expansions either being worked on or already available for download i.e.more flyable aircraft,expanded sceneries,additional campaigns. But no,here we are still waiting to get their fumbled piece of ch*t playable as it should have been upon release.

And all these posts of "patience" and brown nosing the dev's are truly the most pathetic sight to see when checking on here for patch updates.

I check this board daily and constantly see this.The few dozen blind little puppy dogs blowing sugar up these guys asses.

It's like a community circle jerk & blow on this board.

Truly pathetic what this board has come to.And the reason?

Everyone knows this bug ridden flight sim sucks so bad that they have to hang onto a thread of hope that it'll eventually pan out and be what it should have been upon release.That's why all you see nowadays are these "encouraging" threads on here.

It's pathetic that these few loyalists are so blind or just plain too dumb to relaize that even after the next patch,should it ever be released,this flight sim will at best be a tad bit closer to the product it should have been on it's release date back in Nov '03

Pathatic indeed that these few loyalist schmucks have no higher expectations of a consumer product.

Patience you say? Doesn't seem ED or UBI had any patience taking your money or releasing this bug ridden piece-of-crap.

Sad thing is that even the few loyalists that still exist on here will be so disappointed eventually when/if the patch get's released because all they'll have at that point is the game as it should have been 6 months ago.And that's it!

Never mind hoping for an update including additional features such as more flyable A/C models and campaigns etc. because I'm sure the effort will cease very soon.

Even they've(the dev's) have told you schmucks that additional support beyond patching the existing release product is non-existant.

They've already been paid all they're going to be paid for a flawed product and their contract is to patch it up and that's it.

Throwing the blame at UBI seems to be the order of the day on this board.I'm not supporting UBI in way because I think as a software publisher they fall extremely short of being the ideal,but I do not blame them for throwing in the towel on this bug ridden piece-of-junk because the dev's(ED) couldn't develop a decent releasable product in time.The only thing ED has an obligation to anymore is patching the current state of it's buggy crap.Then it's "hasta la vista"

And UBI probably will never have anything to do with them anymore because they can't produce proposed product,functional or on time.

So laugh now all you blind mice,but remember who laugh's last ...........

Remember this post by the end of the year when this buggy POS is abandoned and better stuff is being released by others.

But by no means give up all your posts trying to blow sugar up their a$$e$ because it truly amuses me and I'm sure many many others who frequent this forum just to see if anything has developed,but abstain from posting here.

I had to laugh real hard when the headcount thread popped up a while ago.At 7 pages long I counted a whopping 67 different username posts.Some of wich I can assure are using multiple usernames on this forum.And no,repeated posts and replies were not counted.

So you can clearly see that there is merely and extremely small group on here supporting this product anymore.And it ain't gonna help any to continously post "support"threads,because anyone that frequents this board,aside from you pathetic few loyalists circle-jerking each other daily",can clearly see that this POS is clearly doomed making it urgently necessary for these few schmucks to attempt to make it appear there is still support by posting as they do.

Not to mention the circle jerkers having to stoop to childish,ignorant attacks on those folks that even bother to post a complaint in way,shape or form of the product they paid for and are disappointed about.Worse yet,the dev's and moderators even participate in these events!

Like I said,the last laugh will the best when you few blind mice get the same treatment once this POS has been abandoned because the funds are dry and further obligations non-existant.And trust me that time is coming very soon :)

Any intelligent person,wich most flight simmers are,can clearly see that the lack of discriminating and critcizing posts/threads and the numerous defensive posts/threads are a clear sign there is something very awry here.So feel free to censor all you want LOL

It only contributes to proving me and all the other disappointed consumers of this product correct!

I'm sure "GayBlow: and "Suck'in NotMan"(aka Carla) will see to swift censorship of my post,but not before plenty have read it.Just for longevity sakes I'll post it on other boards as well so that the censorship here can be referenced :))

Truth sucks huh "GayBlow" & "Suck'in NotMan"

Can't hide the truth "

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So, what's the point of the post exactly? has it made the patch any more complete?

 

I can understand people's frustration, but most of these people bitchin' and moanin' were the same people complaining to Ubi to release the damn thing and deal with the bugs later in a patch. There's just no way to make anyone happy.

 

Am I happy with the way it was released? Hell no. But blowing up at Carl and Matt, the same people that are trying to make things right, is about as far from productive as you can get. I trust these guys, they WILL make things right. The past is the past, let it go. Rushing a patch out the door is not going to make things better.

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The post doesn't mention rushing a patch.

Besides this upcoming patch may or may not update the game to what it should have been originally anyways.

Even if it does get up to 1.0 release par,then it's merely where we should have been back in Nov '03 to begin with.

And that is what was expected by anyone who bought this game.

So needless to say that it is currently still an expectation that is long overdue and many people have been patiently waiting for this game to become what it should have been to begin with.

It's no different than having paid for a product and having to wait 6 months to receive it.

I sympathize with most of the complaints I've seen over the last several months,most of wich you cannot find anymore because over on the UBI forums they've censored out of existance to try and paint a friendly face on the game.

Unfortunately I have zero sympathy for UBI or ED(the dev's) and they're little pack of attack dogs over there due the nature they conduct themselves in.

Their responses to those that do complain mostly ignorant,immmature ramblings.

And for you to even say that you "trust these guys" informs me that you fall into the category of "blind loyalists"

"These guys" owe the patches to us and UBI.It's their obligation.Not something special that they're doing from the good of their hearts.

A "do-gooder" would never respond the way they do to legitimate customers.

As much as I anticipate a patch to finally bring the game up to standards wich it should have been,I also anticipate this games demise as,even when it becomes patched it will still not have any additional features wich by now should have been in the making.Such as addtional flyable planes,working multiplayer,more sceneries.

And I anticipate that after the patch is released and ED's obligations to UBI have been met this sim will fall off the face of the planet.As is there are only very few followers already,only 6 months after release and the game sits in bargain bins at stores that even opt to carry it.

I'm not blaming ED or UBI because I don't know who's really at fault here.Neither does it matter.What matters is that a faulty product was sold to us and it's their obligation to make good for us.

I do however blame them for their unsavory behaviour,ignorantly and immaturely attacking those that criticize the product and hiding behind their little attack dogs and enticing them,who are blind enough to support their effort to what is an obligation to us,the consumer to begin with.

I suspect UBI pulled the plug on them for not delivering promised product and judging by their current behaviour witnessed on forums,I'd say that had a good part to play in the decision as well.

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Unfortunately I have zero sympathy for UBI or ED(the dev's) and they're little pack of attack dogs over there due the nature they conduct themselves in.

 

Their responses to those that do complain mostly ignorant,immmature ramblings.

And for you to even say that you "trust these guys" informs me that you fall into the category of "blind loyalists"

 

Wow, 2 posts and you're already getting a warning, that must be a new record here! :rolleyes: Since you are new I'll cut you some slack. You will find we are a friendly bunch around here and I rarely stifle any conversation posted, including people that are unsatisfied with a particular product title, as long as it is done in a constructive and adult manner. However, I do have a couple of hard and fast rules here (see the rules link on the top menu), and the #1 rule is this:

 

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS/NAMECALLING ALLOWED

 

The rambling statement above is what I would call a personal attack. Don't presume to know me or what my feelings are towards LOMAC or any other sim title for that matter. For the record, I am "unsatisfied" with the release and the time frame of the patch as well. However, acting like a 2-year old is not going to make things better, and will quite possibly make things worse.

 

Want to discuss the patch delays here? Go for it, I don't mind a bit. But another outburst like above and you'll be in a timeout for a few weeks. Consider this your first (and last) warning.

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I can say as a beta tester on another sims patch that I can promise you that they are working hard.nobody wants to get the patch more than the dev. team and beta testers.After you try a build and then another and then another..it really gets old..it's like work and not alot of fun,until you hit the right one.building a patch isn't a matter of snapping your fingers and there it is..if you want the"perfect"game...use your sims for coasters and load up solitaire.I'm not a blind loyalist and I know that Madjeff or any of the others that support Carl,and Matt are not and like he says can any of these people that cry and complain do anybetter?

Carl is trying to fix alot of things and it won't happen over night,if you're not happy with the game uninstall it and go on...sell it on eBay,just quit crying and blaming everyone for things taking awhile to get right.I'd rather have 1 really good patch than 5 half-right patches.from the reaction of alot of people I'd say their new to sims and don't understand the process,also keep in mind theres time difference for the testers so they can't test without first setting it up..only school kids and lazy lay arounds can do that.

As for why the team takes it personally when attacked?? well lets see they are working for free,trying to help,and what thanks do they get? they get flamed.Matt and Carl are releasing updates to try and let everyone know whats going on..they don't have to do that,and if everyone wants to continue to flame them I'd say the updates will stop.

And a reminder for everyone(MJ already did) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS...PERIOD.

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Here's a copy & pasted post I just saw on UBI's LOMAC forum.

 

Just for longevity sakes I'll post it on other boards as well so that the censorship here can be referenced :))

Is it just me, or are others under the impression that Ramstein is the author of the "copy & pasted post" ;)

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well - besides the manner in which that post was made, i agree with the sentiments expressed.

 

I find it shameful that some people seem to equate incomplete development to bugs which make incomplete therefore acceptable, and that release is more reliant on commercial buying cycles than when the product is ready.

 

I can't wait until the law catches up with software and begins to treat it similarly to manufactured goods in respect to consumer rights.

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Bard, we're all well aware of what you think about LOMAC... ;) :D

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well - besides the manner in which that post was made, i agree with the sentiments expressed.

 

I find it shameful that some people seem to equate incomplete development to bugs which make incomplete therefore acceptable, and that release is more reliant on commercial buying cycles than when the product is ready.

 

I can't wait until the law catches up with software and begins to treat it similarly to manufactured goods in respect to consumer rights.

hear!,hear! :D

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What I'm finding VERY interesting about this whole deal is the fact that Lomac was supposed to be the sim of all sims. Now before you shoot me down, I was also on that fence looking at Lomac and hoping for the sim to end all sims.

 

All of this bickering is reminding me alot of the earlier days of Strike Fighters when we were trying to defend the fudged up release and fairly long delays on patches. Delays with SFP1 made folks back off and not even give it a second chance. As a SFP1 beta tester for almost two years it's been hard not to release any info to the public per TK's request, but seeing how the Lomac devs are striking out at nay sayers I can now respect TK's requests. While I can and do respect the Lomac Dev's opinions about their sim...I also look up to TK more for his restraint and subsequent good feelings of the community when the patches do arrive.

 

I DO hope the best for Lomac, while I also hope folks will continue to follow SFP1 (or 2). Good flight sims are few and far between...we need to start embracing them so we can continue to get better ones.

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Bard, we're all well aware of what you think about LOMAC... ;) :D

here's a test :)

 

what would my opinion on LOMAC be? ;)

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I DO hope the best for Lomac, while I also hope folks will continue to follow SFP1 (or 2).  Good flight sims are few and far between...we need to start embracing them so we can continue to get better ones.

But on the same hand, we can't go embracing those that have been pushed out the door before they are ready.

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I DO hope the best for Lomac, while I also hope folks will continue to follow SFP1 (or 2).  Good flight sims are few and far between...we need to start embracing them so we can continue to get better ones.

But on the same hand, we can't go embracing those that have been pushed out the door before they are ready.

My hope is for eventually a flight sim that everone would embrace and would work right out of the gate.

 

From my personal experience with the other flight sim (SFP1), and the uber flight sim Lomac, I don't see any great sims coming out from the gate as the latest greatest anything. Honestly, I don't remember anything super great since USAF (99), CFS2, or IL2 that worked fairly well from the get-go. Honestly, MSFS 2004 has been the greatest flight sim I've seen in two years, but unfortunately you can't kill anyone with it.

 

All I want is a great...really great flight sim. I'm tired of holding out for the latest greatest. Without a flamefest, I've been holding out for one that holds my interest for longer than a couple months like the past few titles.

 

The problem I see is that we (the realistic flight sim community) has been holding out for more than they can offer at this time.

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Bard, I'm afraid that if we don't embrace the new flight sims in some way, we'll be left with no flightsims in the future.

 

I see your point, yet i have to support the flightsim community if we want to keep our hobby alive. If we fail the developers who work on the newer tiltles (Lomac, SFP1) who is going to make a new sim for us?

 

It kind of blows in a way, but we as a community really need to support any flight sim developer so we can keep our dream of flight a reality. Both of the big name devs (UBI, Thirdwire) need all the support we can muster, because they are the two major players. I'm a beta tester for TW, but I'm still looking for great success with UBI...just because I'm a huge combat flight sim fan.

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I think it's this fear that we have to accept what we're given rather regardless of condition that publishers are preying upon if you will.

 

I can't begin to imagine what would happen if a shooter or rts game was released in the same shape that sims have been recently - and before anyone says they're less complicated so are going to be in better shape i'd like to point out this - it may take longer to get a sim into as good a shape quality wise, but that's no excuse for it not to be.

 

I look at sims like JF-18 and IL2FB - both of these sims were developmentally complete upon release but just needed bug fixing. Even Falcon4 was complete - but buggier than hell.

 

What we've seen with PSF and LOMAC were sims released before they had even been finished. Bugs are one thing and I believe that to a point they are going to be inevitable - but releasing stuff that isn't finished yet is another thing entirely.

 

I think the prop scene is well and truly taken care of right now - what we're missing is a good jet sim that works properly. LOMAC at 1.02 might be that sim, currently it isn't. The next iteration of F4BMS might be that sim, but it also currently isn't. If only JF-18 supported trackir ;)

 

I think it's going to be hard to get more people into this genre when they find that the software is buggier than hell, and too complicated to figure out without looking at the manual at the same time - something you can't do with pdf manuals. Something they can read on the loo or on the train or have open when they are actually flying the sim would really assist. I remember taking mine to highschool back in the golden years of microprose.

 

A reputation for quality product is the best thing a developer can have.

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Bard is hashing up the same old stuff over and over..........."Shoulda, woulda, coulda" hardly ever happens.

 

Fact The game was released w/plenty of bugs. Blame UBI for that, developers are notorious for that type of stuff. At least ED is trying to get this patch right. The first patch was released in a hurry, and you all see what we got w/that!!!

 

Fact No amount of complaining is gonna change the status of the patch. ED will not release the next patch until they feel confident that it fixes all known issues. I imagine that the asshats have actually helped us a little in this field as the devs are sick and tired of the trolling by the same individuals. I suppose we owe Bard some thanks after all. :D

 

Fact 6 months isn't a lot of time to wait to have the game patched correctly. Is the game unplayable? I don't think so!!! It ran well on my old 1800 Athlon just fine, only had to tweak my rig slightly. Most of it was turning off Windows services that I don't need or use.

 

Fact There are many of us out there that fly LOMAC every day and even though there are some bugs and stuff that needs to be fixed the game is still a blast. The F-15 is undermodelled but I enjoy the challenge, as do many others. I have flown every A-10 mission I could get my hands on w/ no labels, and beat them all. I've beat every mission that came w/the game (even w/v 1.0). You can choose to play the game even w/it's warts or troll the forums and be an asshat. Some people are more suited to the latter.

 

Fact Some of us don't need or want a manual that merely regurgitates how to's like "split S" and "ACM manuevering". Take a look at your F4 manual, I had to skip that section too. But then again I'm that good. Bard, get w/me on ICQ. I'm willing to help you out w/some pointers. Either that or buy Nic's manual. The options are out there so put your money where your mouth is. But then again trolling doesn't cost a dime.

 

Why don't you crybabies stop already and wait for the next patch? I'm sure ya'll will find something wrong w/it but jeez, it's been 5 months of whining!!!

Edited by ruggbutt

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Not again over here. Weasle and Bard are having a civil discussion and ruggbutt has to chime in with jabs. I realize that you too have your opinions, but IMO you are making this discussion sour. The discussion is bringing valid points on both sides. It is also not enlightening anyone on things that aren't already know. Why can't you just leave well enough alone sometimes?

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OK all, just a friendly warning. I ENCOURAGE any discussion as long as we keep things civil and mature. You are free to discuss the pros and cons of the issue, but remember the #1 rule here, no personal attacks or namecalling. That goes for all sides. I won't lock this thread unless things get really out of hand, but don't force me to go down that path please.

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Here's a copy & pasted post I just saw on UBI's LOMAC forum.

 

Just for longevity sakes I'll post it on other boards as well so that the censorship here can be referenced :))

Is it just me, or are others under the impression that Ramstein is the author of the "copy & pasted post" ;)

:P Surely not, that would mean they were just doing the rounds of LOMAC forums and needlessly stirring ... why would someone bother to do that?

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My hope is for eventually a flight sim that everone would embrace and would work right out of the gate.

All that's occurring overtime is a pervasive, ever increasing expectation that developers should increasingly provide unachievable 'reality'.

 

Remember Jet Fighter II, or Microprose F-117A? ... great 'sim' games from 15 years ago (they seemed 'realistic' to my ignorance at the time), I'm sure many do remember them, I played those to death and had lots of fun for very few dollars.

 

No one TOLD me they were poorly coded, poorly modelled or the fight model stank, or the graphics sucked and the sound was pathetic ... I just enjoyed what I bought and there were many 'sims' I bought which really were terrible rubbish (and I forgot most of them), and I didn't need anyone to TELL me that either. Didn't need an expert to give me it broken down into what's 'wrong', or should be done 'better' and patched up.

 

Likewise, I don't need anyone to preach to me the pros and cons of a sim I play now--nobody needs that so please don't bother, I'm not interested. If I keep playing a sim it has to be pretty good to hold my interest, regardless of whatever warts it has, and in 15 years I'll still remember them fondly for what it did, not what was 'wrong'.

 

Unfortunately today, simply enjoying a sim and making the most of what you bought (emphasis on simply), and not just resorting to being a 'smart-guy' critic, is much less popular ... the sim seems to become secondary to expressing dissent and contention.

 

LOL … pretty wierd, whatever! :lol:

Edited by zzzspace

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I think the biggest draw back to the flight sim community is you can't capture the main stream with having to tweak a machine way past it's minimum setup and expect the mainstream computer user to be able or willing to go through the hassle of having to tweak this or tweak that to get a piece of software to run decently. That's why the mainstream uses gameboxes "X-box, PS2 Gameboy, etc..." as their choice of gaming hardware. Insert it and play...... I get tired of having to have a setup for this game and a setup for that game or uninstall this or uninstall that driver, it's a nuisance.

 

For people like us, we learned to do this kind of tweaking and some of us enjoy it, some of us don't You can't change that "Tis Human Nature" ;)

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