Parky, von Paulus, please advice

[Von Paulus 8]

I think they'll do. But Parky's probably will know for sure.

 

EDIT: if you're gonna ask the OC values that Parky has maybe you should also have the same memories he has.

When you're overclocking the CPU you're also affecting the memories.

If you're going to overclock it's best to begin to read some tutorials concerning. It's more technical.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Creaghorn 10]

I think they'll do. But Parky's probably will know for sure.

 

EDIT: if you're gonna ask the OC values that Parky has maybe you should also have the same memories he has.

When you're overclocking the CPU you're also affecting the memories.

If you're going to overclock it's best to begin to read some tutorials concerning. It's more technical.

 

 

good idea .

 

what ram would you recommend, parky? or which one do you have?

[Parky 8]

I'm currently running these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231254

 

Not cheap, but you get what you pay for. They're running underclocked @ 1800mhz with the 3.6 overclock on the 920. I can tighten the timings but for now I settled on stock timings with a 1T command rate and stock voltage of 1.6

 

Got a bit of other info for you, but have to get my @ss back to work before I get fired....lol.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

[Parky 8]

Just a quick picture of the PX58D housed in an Antec 1200 with the Corsair cooler in a push/pull arrangement:

 

 

 

 

This was taken shortly after the initial build and first boot. The graphics card you see there is an 8800GTX, which was in place merely to get the system up and running pending the arrival of a 5970. What I did discover was I had to rearrange a couple of hard drives just to fit that big ATI pig in the tower. Actually, I shouldn't say unkind things about the 5970. It's an absolutely kickass card if you get a good one. Mine was a complete dog until I updated it's BIOS. Not for the uninitiated, or if you're not comfortable in a pure DOS environment. Remember, you're flashing a dual GPU solution here, and if you bugger up the master/slave order or pooch a DOS command, you could be looking at a very expensive brick. It is possible to recover a bricked card in most instances, but it's not an adventure I'd wanna' have to go through.

 

The H50 you see here is set up to exhaust hot air from the rad back out of the tower....contrary to the way Corsair recommends you set it up. What I found was the ambient temperature inside this case was cool enough to allow for that configuration and it just seems illogical to me to have hot air from the rad being blown back into the tower. I also took the time to replace the two Tri-cools you see here with a couple of 1850 rpm Scythe Gentle Typhoons. They are much better suited to liquid cooling applications due to their superior static pressure. If all you want to do is blow air around and have it circulate, the Tri-cools are fine. If you want to blow air through a tightly packed space (like a rad for instance) go with something else. Noctua makes a good fan for that specific purpose and so do some others, but they'll usually cost you an arm and a leg, and from my experience, the Scythes do an outstanding job at bargain basement prices if you shop around.

 

The Antec 1200 is not for everybody. Although it has superb thermal qualities, it does have it's flaws. It is definitely not a tool-less design. Mounting HDD's in this thing is nothing short of a complete pain in the ass, mostly due to having to remove both sides of the case along with a seemingly ridiculous number of screws. The front bezel filter design is also somewhat flawed in that in order to clean them you have to slide the HDD cages forward in order to get at them. This involves having to once again remove both sides of the case as well as having to remember to leave enough slack in your sata cables to allow enough forward movement of the HD cages. If you've failed to do that, there's gonna' be some swearing the first time you decide to clean those filters. Other than that, a removable motherboard tray would have been a nice addition, but those are about the only negatives I can come up with. As you can see in the picture, cable management shouldn't be a problem. I've since tidied the cables even further and it was never really an issue. That Corsair 850TX PSU you're looking at is a modular design though, which certainly helps in that regard.

 

The RAM you see here is the G-Skill listed in my earlier post. It's run flawlessly from the get-go. You may find you'll have to adjust it's frequency manually though, as it defaulted to 1066 with stock BIOS settings. One thing I can tell you is it's fast as hell and stable as a rock. I have no complaints.

 

The PX58D Premium is a fabulous board. Overclocking the i7-920 to 3.6 on this thing was so simple a chimpanzee could do it (well I did, didn't I?). Stability at 4Ghz provided a bit more of a challenge, but not all that much. The conclusion I reached was that the additional 400Mhz overclock isn't worth the diminishing real-world performance gains, the increase in voltages, or the accompanying temperature increases. For 24-7 use, 3.6 is more than enough with this hardware array and if it isn't, then somebody's expectations are a wee bit unrealistic.

 

I'm not suggesting this is the build for you (Craig). It's just to give you an idea of what my designated gaming machine consists of and what it looks like. Basically, I'm pretty sure that with the collection of hobbyists we have here, between the bunch of us, we can get you set up with something you'll be fairly pleased with. You don't have to break the bank...there's always room for compromise.

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

Edited May 26, 2010 by Parky

[Creaghorn 10]

great info parky, thank you .

i have compiled everything you all suggested and i'm ready to buy. but before i push the button, please take a look at this other variant. a company, recommended by a friend, who build the rig for you with the parts you want. also there is 2 year warranty, not from producer, but of this company, which makes things easier if something goes wrong.

all other parts not included, i'll take from my own rig. so please give your opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

[Von Paulus 8]

It looks good and I'm it's a powerful rig.

The H50 you see here is set up to exhaust hot air from the rad back out of the tower....contrary to the way Corsair recommends you set it up. What I found was the ambient temperature inside this case was cool enough to allow for that configuration and it just seems illogical to me to have hot air from the rad being blown back into the tower.

It's illogical and goes against everything I know about air flow.

 

I also took the time to replace the two Tri-cools you see here with a couple of 1850 rpm Scythe Gentle Typhoons.

 

Did the H50's original package brought the fans for the rad?

 

The RAM you see here is the G-Skill listed in my earlier post. It's run flawlessly from the get-go. You may find you'll have to adjust it's frequency manually though, as it defaulted to 1066 with stock BIOS settings. One thing I can tell you is it's fast as hell and stable as a rock. I have no complaints.

 

I too am using G.Skill. Only mine are PC12800@1600 cl7 1.6v. Stable and quick.

 

The PX58D Premium is a fabulous board. Overclocking the i7-920 to 3.6 on this thing was so simple a chimpanzee could do it (well I did, didn't I?). Stability at 4Ghz provided a bit more of a challenge, but not all that much. The conclusion I reached was that the additional 400Mhz overclock isn't worth the diminishing real-world performance gains, the increase in voltages, or the accompanying temperature increases. For 24-7 use, 3.6 is more than enough with this hardware array and if it isn't, then somebody's expectations are a wee bit unrealistic.

Agree.

I've overclocked mine I5-750@2.66Ghz to 3.2Ghz. I could go further but I'd probably have to mess with voltages. I've only push BCLK to 160 and the multiply with 20 (the "natural" multiplier of I5-750). Temperature rise 3 to 10 degrees with my actual air cooler. I've a Artic Cooler Pro 7, it's cheap but it's better than the original. So far 3.2 is enough.

For people who don't want to mess with BIOS and want to do a small overclock, both Asus and Gigabyte, have software that deals with that.

The Asus software will perform a serious of tests and will decide which overclock is suitable to your rig. The Gigabyte uses a different approach, they tested in the lab which values are best suitable for your CPU and they give you the chance to choose from low, medium and extreme overclocking.

Regarded to the extreme options I always advised to avoid it. If you want to go extreme then do it yourself, by trying and changing BIOS values.

One thing is for sure, for small overclocking, this new motherboards and new processors are much more easier to do it.

[Von Paulus 8]

IMHO:

I wouldn't use Corsair for memories. As far as I know Corsair memories, depending the chips they use, might be a good buy or a bad one. Talking with my dealers they have said to me that Corsair memories have an above average RMA (Return Merchandising) than other brands. Like I've told I'd go G.Skill or OCZ. I don't have any experience with Crucial. Kingston are usually slower, but are very, very stable. I'd go to G.Skill.

 

300W BeQuiet!, what's that? Power supply with 300?

BeQuiet! is one of my favorite brands for PSU. They have great, great customer support as far as it goes my experience in dealing with them.

But I thought you had a power supply? What is the brand, creaghorn?

 

The case seems nice, but so far I've never used one.

 

The CPU cooler is a passive one which means silence. But I don't have real experience with passive coolers. I saw a review giving it a good score. Interesting.

 

As for the motherboard I wouldn't choose that one. It's a good mobo; good for overclocking, great performance, etc. But it isn't USB3 and SATA3. It doesn't make sense not to buy a board with that characteristics nowadays, even of you aren't planning using it for now. The PX58D Premium brings all these. But because it's a new model, maybe you can't find it in Germany yet. It's not essential to have USB3 and SATA3, but.....

 

Let's hear what Parky says.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Parky 8]

Yes, Von Paulus.....the Corsair comes with a single 120mm fan. It's nothing to write home about. Far better off going with 1 or 2 Scythes.

 

As far as memory goes, I'm pretty much sold on G-Skill for now. I've used it in half a dozen or so builds. Never had a stick DOA and so far haven't seen one fail. We'd be foolish to think it doesn't happen though. I've also had good luck with OCZ, Patriot and Mushkin so far. With the Corsairs I've seen one DOA and had two sticks fail in two different systems. Didn"t have any problems with the RMA process. Their customer service is fine, but it's still a PITA to have to wait for them to ship out the replacements.

 

The Rampage II Extreme is a good board. It is getting a little long in the tooth though as you've pointed out. No SATA 6Gb/s which in it's present state is not all that important, but also no USB 3.0, which for me easily replaces eSATA and is a very useful feature. When I check prices on Newegg, the Rampage runs about 80 bucks more than the P6X58D, and frankly (although I may be biased) I feel the P6 is a much better board for today's needs. Not sure about availability or pricing in the Motherland, so that is probably a consideration as well as a possible limitation.

 

The Storm Scout is a very nice looking case, has reasonably good airflow, but is also a typical mid-tower sized case. If you're ever thinking about throwing a 5970 in it, you'll have to butcher the crap out of the case just to get the card in. You'd be far better off going with the HAF-922 which runs about the same price, or better still, move up to the 932 for about 50 bucks more. The 932 is a full sized tower with exceptional airflow and if you're planning on using passive cooling with that Megahalem, you'd best have a real wind tunnel of a case. On a positive note, the Megahalems allow for active cooling with the addition of either one or two fans (as long as the interior dimensions of your case allow for it).

 

Not sure what the hell they were thinking when they listed a 300w PSU in that array. That just isn't going to cut it and I don't give a rats behind how efficient the supply is.

 

Craig....one thing I learned early on. NEVER rush into selecting parts for a new computer build. In all probability you're going to be stuck with it for a fair while and it's crucial to take your time and choose wisely.

 

I'm at work right now and don't want to get slapped upside the head by my boss, not to mention the network here is absolutely horrible. I'll take a look at that configurator when I get home and maybe come up with some useful suggestions.

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

[zoomzoom 2]

Wow Creaghorn, you opened a good can of worms here.....sooo many choices. I'm glad you did though, and I've been following it closely, because I am contemplating doing the exact same thing. It will be nice to watch your progress in construction, (if you will be so kind as to post it) as you will be paving the way for the rest of us who are thinking of doing this same personal build, but have hesitated till now.

 

ZZ.

 

PS.

 

This well could be the inception of a thread based upon custom building the perfect "OFF" rig. I think it would be a great addition to the OFF forum, where all of the parts and components are listed (advisable vs. not) and various configurations and thier components are outlined to aid those who are seeking to build rigs geared mainly towards the best (and most economical) peformance in OFF possible.

 

PsPS. My goal (after of course building a rig that will run smooth as glass in large furballs with the sliders set near or at max) is to use my basement wall (around 8' x 11' of it) as my monitor with a projector, and some large speakers. That'll give some immersion!!! But thats "Phase-2". Phase 1 is building the darn thing! So I'm watching with anticipation.

Edited May 26, 2010 by zoomzoom

[Creaghorn 10]

ok. so this is the compilation i made before i got routed to the other site.

 

is there anything among it which you wouldn't recommend? i think that's exactly the same RAM as parky has.

 

enough coolers or missing anything?

 

plan is to complete this stuff with my old gtx260, old, two SATA HD's, old drives and hub and old 750w power supply etc.

replace the haf922 with the haf932, which i would rather choose now.

 

Edited May 26, 2010 by Creaghorn

[Parky 8]

That all looks good to me. Ok....just saw the PSU plan.

 

 

 

Also.....you do understand that your bottleneck will now be that Nvidia 260, right?? (Just so you know.....)

 

 

Let me take a quick look at the fan configs on the 922 and 932. If you're going with the H50, you want to be sure you can mount a 120 mm fan somewhere and I believe those cases come stock with the 140's.

 

 

P.S.

 

We know you're eager, but don't rush.....

Edited May 26, 2010 by Parky

[Parky 8]

Ok.....if it were me I'd go with the 932 as it's a full tower as opposed to mid sized so it has TONS of space. It also has better airflow potential over the 922. In order to mount the H50 you'll have to remove the 140mm fan that comes with the case and replace it with the fan that's included with the H50.

 

Von Paulus....whaddya' think??

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

[Von Paulus 8]

Ok.....if it were me I'd go with the 932 as it's a full tower as opposed to mid sized so it has TONS of space. It also has better airflow potential over the 922. In order to mount the H50 you'll have to remove the 140mm fan that comes with the case and replace it with the fan that's included with the H50.

Yes. And I'd use your idea of assembling 120 two fan in the rad. One pushing and the other pulling. But I'm not sure he can do it in the rear. Maybe at the top.

[Parky 8]

Easily done, and right where the existing 140mm is. Plenty of room there. He'll need four 6 x 32 x 1 1/4" machine screws. Anything longer and he'll poke a hole right through that rad.....not a pretty thought.

 

 

Here's a picture of a single fan arrangement in the HAF932 http://img10.imagesh...28/pa180287.jpg

 

 

The four holes he's looking for are clearly visible on the rad.......piece of cake, but he will have to think about picking up the additional 120 if he decides to go that route.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Parky

[Von Paulus 8]

I see.

By the way creaghorn. Who's is going to assemble? You or the guys at the shop?

[GRUMPYBEAR 1]

ok. so this is the compilation i made before i got routed to the other site.

 

is there anything among it which you wouldn't recommend? i think that's exactly the same RAM as parky has.

 

enough coolers or missing anything?

 

plan is to complete this stuff with my old gtx260, old, two SATA HD's, old drives and hub and old 750w power supply etc.

replace the haf922 with the haf932, which i would rather choose now.

 

If I may add something about the power supply sense I just had to replace mine.

If I understand what I read the other day , that with all the higher end MOBOs , vid cards and things, you need most of the Amps on the 12 volt rail. The psu , an OCZ 850 watts,I bought when I built my pc 3 yrs ago wasn't and I have had trouble with a couple of things for the last year so I replaced my psu with this one

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341026

Its modular which is nice and it has 71 Amps on the 12 volt rail where my old psu had 24 I think.

cheers

GB

[Creaghorn 10]

I see.

By the way creaghorn. Who's is going to assemble? You or the guys at the shop?

 

since my name is not "Q" or "Scottie", somebody else is better going to do this . my friend who recommended me the other site, does work about the same job as you two do and he said he'll do it.

 

is it complicated then to use this fan or should i rather take a 140 fan cooler in the first place?

[Von Paulus 8]

No it isn't complicated. You need to get an extra 120 fan to do exactly the same thing as Parky did. It will help cooling.

Show Parky's rig to your friend and he will understand what to do it.

[Creaghorn 10]

No it isn't complicated. You need to get an extra 120 fan to do exactly the same thing as Parky did. It will help cooling.

Show Parky's rig to your friend and he will understand what to do it.

 

 

so i can push the button now? (desperately trying to hide the eagerness... )

[Morris 2]

HIT IT Creaghorn HIT IT.

 

 

 

[Von Paulus 8]

For me yes. You've green light.

But don't forget to buy an extra, or even two, 120 fan. Parky advise Scythe. If they don't have it order from other place. Look at their official page. They sell it in a lot of places in Germany. This is not important... but it can help in cooling the rad and the CPU, specially if you're going to overclock it.

Now just wait for the green light from Parky.

[Creaghorn 10]

yo parky, please give also a quick green light! (before you get slapped on your head again by your chef )

[appraiserfl 0]

yo parky, please give also a quick green light! (before you get slapped on your head again by your chef )

 

Ill green light it, however, I would make a final suggestion on your GPU....maybe you might wanna consider selling the 260 while it still holds some resell value and pick up an ATI 5850 or 5870 so you could have the option of going triple screen down the road for your next upgrade. I know the idea of triple screening is daunting and seems expensive, but you can slowly pickup the additional two monitors and really the result is just as drastic as going from no trackIR to having trackIR.....but better because when you combine track IR with three screens....well thats as close as it gets to actually getting there in terms of immersion!

[BirdDogICT 3]

Ill green light it, however, I would make a final suggestion on your GPU....maybe you might wanna consider selling the 260 while it still holds some resell value and pick up an ATI 5850 or 5870...

Creaghorn,

 

Choosing the right combination of PSU and GPU can be a challenge. Check out post #57 here: http://forum.combata...es/page__st__40, it has links to a few review articles that should give you some idea of the power consumption problems with many newer graphics cards. Having the most powerful graphics card on the market often comes with additional costs. Underpowering your GPU can cause graphics anomalies, system crashes, and potential early failure of other components on the 12V rail(s).

 

BTW, I think you have the start of a very nice system. I tend to build AMD/ATI-based systems and have been very happy with the results. It's hard to beat ASUS boards, especially their heat dissipation if you plan to overclock. I've always been a fan of Corsairs matched memory pairs...they are higher priced because they're throuroughly tested and hand picked. I recently switched to G.Skill and have been surprised by the quality and easy overclocking.

 

Also, thanks for SoundTweak II. Definitely adds to the OFF experience!!!

Edited May 27, 2010 by BirdDogICT

[Creaghorn 10]

Ill green light it, however, I would make a final suggestion on your GPU....maybe you might wanna consider selling the 260 while it still holds some resell value and pick up an ATI 5850 or 5870 so you could have the option of going triple screen down the road for your next upgrade. I know the idea of triple screening is daunting and seems expensive, but you can slowly pickup the additional two monitors and really the result is just as drastic as going from no trackIR to having trackIR.....but better because when you combine track IR with three screens....well thats as close as it gets to actually getting there in terms of immersion!

 

i think i'll stick with it till the new high end gpu's get cheaper. though it's a tempting idea to start to upgrade it slowly.