A View On Ilegal Immigration...

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Time to add my 2 bits worth.

 

I don't have the SLIGHTEST ounce of sympathy towards illegals.

 

Not one.

 

Remember the topic i started some time ago about moving to England? Well, i'm still want to go but had to push it back a bit. Will i jump on a plane, get there and say, "Yo UK! I'm here?". Hell no, i have to go to the Counsulate in Los Angeles and do what i gotta to visa up.

 

What ALL illegals need to do this...Go back to where you came from, do the paperwork, wait, come back. Now a whole lot of people think that is rather impossible. Think i care? If my ass wants to move to another country and I have to go through the procedure, they can too.

 

Think i'm being a bit harsh? I work with immigrants. Im my shift there are exactly four of us out of about 80 that were born here. ALL of them visaed up and came. Why should others get to cut the line? Their reactions as a whole are enlightening. Do you know that all the Africans i know waited about 5 years to get in? The Cubans have varying times, but i've heard of waits of between 4 and 7 years. The Mexicans and Salvadorans were about 2 and 4 years respectively. Man, are some of these people pissed the hell off at these illegals demanding an amnesty. You would dig talking to them as you'll hear all kind of obscenities you've never even imagined.

 

Don't like that wait? Too bad!

 

One of my Uncles had a hell of a time. He managed to get his wife and kids out but he had a bit of a delay. Know how these simps always talk of "breaking up the family"? Well, he finally got reunited with his family 10 YEARS LATER. Thats right, a whole damn decade. Needless to say, i couldn't care a wit about the hassles others will encounter.

 

"What about kids who don't know the language or culture"? Oh hell, another one of my Uncles got here in the early 60s and was thrown right into high school without knowing a lick of english.Yep, no bilingual educations in those days. Especially in the Bronx, which was where the family was at. Want to learn fast? Deep immersion is the way to go. BTW, he ended up joining the USMC. Vietnam, Parris Island Drill Instructer, OCS at Quantico, etc, etc.

 

As for the "Vital" jobs these people do, let me tell you something. I feel for the young these days because lots of decent paying entry level jobs are gone. Anyone remember breaking into something like construction? Unless it's union, forget about it in large parts of the country because some illegal already got the job. Ain't no way the contracter is going to hire you. Why should he? He already got cheaper labor AND most likely doesn't have to worry about insurance.

 

Man, i can riff ALL day about this subject. As a matter of fact, i got a WHOLE lot more to say but i'm going to pause for a bit.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Lt. James Cater

[+Erik 1,812]

Seriously there are millions of people who can share their discomfort about immigration issues and they are not specific to any one country. If we employed the same zeal offering up solutions to the problem that we do in sharing our discontent we might actually get somewhere. No offense intended but I think it's important to remember that not everything is as cut and dry as we'd like to make it nor can it be so neatly packaged into points of view that allow us to rationalize the problem into black or white.

 

Your position can be debated from the stance that we're all illegal immigrants, at least from the view point of the Native American Indian. Globally similar circumstances exist on every continent and it's a battle that's been waged from the beginning of time.

 

Where does your position take us? More laws, more fencing, or more shooting?

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Personally i'd be up to getting the southern border to the point that a jackrabbit would need to show papers.

 

Want to know how they catch illegal Dominicans in Puerto Rico? The Immigration and Customs people are mainly Puerto Ricans and Cubans. They can spot a Dominican easy because not only do they look different, their dialect is distinct. Back across the water they go.

 

About anyone coming here a few centuries ago, i don't remember seeing the United States Of America on maps i have studied of the European colonial period. But there sure was that country on the map when my family came, and they just couldn't waltz in here and claim rights and benefits.

 

I've told Illegals that i've worked with "Hell, you might as well keep going north to Canada because things are getting pretty tight these days in the US."

 

Whatever solution comes, as long as it's not an amnesty people would be willing to listen. And no, staying here while doing the paperwork is not going to work. That IS an amnesty. It might end up having to do it in something like shifts, planning the outward bound and those who went through procedure and are coming back.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Lt. James Cater

[+Erik 1,812]

So let me ask this. Why does anyone leave their country to go to another country legally or illegally?

[Lt. James Cater 62]

There are many reasons.

 

My family's reason was political. My Grandfather decided to see if Castro would be any different than Batista. After a year or so he he got out and started geting others out too. You could also have things such as wars and civil upheavel. A number of the Africans i work with come from the Congo and the surrounding regions. With others it's poverty and/or lack of opportunity to improve their lot in life. That's mainly what drives a lot of the Latinos into moving. A few are looking for the "Big Killing" you can make in America. Pull it off and you will become part of the Elite back home

 

For some it could just be a perceived better deal. There are lots of people from the UK in the Las Vegas area that just couldn't stand it anymore over there. A couple i've talked to think i'm crazy to want to go. I assure them that the ghetto i'm moving to in Liverpool is safer than the slums i've lived in here in a few places.

 

I'm in yet another category. The "What The Hell" migrants. I want to see the UK for an extended period. I've known dudes that up and took off for Europe and Japan almost on a whim just to see what it was like. A few came back, did the paperwork packed up fully and took off forever.

 

If anyone could add reasons, please do.

[+Erik 1,812]

Would it be fair in summation to say you can boil all those "reasons" down to HOPE and FREEDOM?

[Ruggbutt 45]

Hope and freedom have always been the reason why. But there are laws in place and the only way to teach a new entry to this country that it's to be respected is for them to follow proper procedure.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

To a certain extent, as there are number of people who come from places such as Scandinavia who have it way better than pretty much the rest of the planet. Caes such as mine? Doesn't apply at all since here in the US i would actually have it better than what i expect in the UK.

 

One category i forgot... Welfare sponges. The UK and Canada are the most notorious soft touches for these people. Some will do little to nothing but claim(and recieve)an untreasonably large amount of benefits despite doing litle to nothing at all to have earned them.

 

And to follow your(apparent)train of thought to a logical conclusion, it still doesn't give anyone the right to go to another country without following their laws and customs as to how that is to be done.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Lt. James Cater

[+Erik 1,812]

Hope and freedom have always been the reason why. But there are laws in place and the only way to teach a new entry to this country that it's to be respected is for them to follow proper procedure.

 

I don't disagree. I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I have my ideas and I enjoy hearing the ideas of others on how to fix the problem. Problem I find is that solutions are in short supply and not very clearly thought out. This includes the current ones now in place and being enforced.

 

My biggest concern is what happens when you take HOPE and FREEDOM from the American People. Can I get an Amen?

 

E

[+Erik 1,812]

To a certain extent, as there are number of people who come from places such as Scandinavia who have it way better than pretty much the rest of the planet. Caes such as mine? Doesn't apply at all since here in the US i would actually have it better than what i expect in the UK.

 

One category i forgot... Welfare sponges. The UK and Canada are the most notorious soft touches for these people. Some will do little to nothing but claim(and recieve)an untreasonably large amount of benefits despite doing litle to nothing at all to have earned them.

 

And to follow your(apparent)train of thought to a logical conclusion, it still doesn't give anyone the right to go to another country without following their laws and customs as to how that is to be done.

 

My apparent "train of thought" or Ruggs?

 

Public assistance abuse is a serious issue.

 

E

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Hope and Freedom are great things. But if you want it, go about it the right way.

 

BTW, as of this typing i have yet to see Rugg's post.

[+Erik 1,812]

Hope and Freedom are great things. But if you want it, go about it the right way.

 

BTW, as of this typing i have yet to see Rugg's post.

 

Well then with all due respect you're drawing the wrong conclusions about my position. I am in no way condoning illegal immigration.

 

I thought you wanted to debate the subject but sadly it's just turned into a rant.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Well then with all due respect you're drawing the wrong conclusions about my position. I am in no way condoning illegal immigration.

 

I thought you wanted to debate the subject but sadly it's just turned into a rant.

 

Erik,

If it seems like a rant from my point i beg to differ. Debates are like chess as you must be anticipating possible responses so as to be prepared with a rebuttal if needed.. Obviously i was in error somewhere. I'll have to check back through the thread later as anyways, i'm nodding off at the keyboard and i have to go to work tommorrow. I will ask some more of my co-workers to get their opinians as to this subject.

[+Erik 1,812]

And to follow your(apparent)train of thought to a logical conclusion

 

A debate and for that matter good discussion allows for open communication. To assume to know my position before I have voiced it or to say an abstract in train of thought (assumed) would be an illogical conclusion only depreciates the discussion.

[Ruggbutt 45]

My apparent "train of thought" or Ruggs?

 

Public assistance abuse is a serious issue.

 

E

The county hospital was closed here because of that. Now poor Americans don't have access to medical facilities in their neighborhood.

[ekek 18]

I am a legal immigrant to the USA and I'm in this status for the past 3 years. I did it the right way though and I can tell you it's a long, annoying and expensive process. BUT!!!!!! I had no doubt in my mind that I would do it the right way. Illegal immigration gives a bad name to all of us legal immigrants. I can tell you from personal experience how hard it is over here to get the approval of the locals once they hear the word "immigrant", And that is because of the illegals. The immediate conclusion they have is that if one is not an American citizen, he is an illegal.

 

I am from Israel. Frankly there are more freedoms and comforts in my homeland and the weather is so much better there. But I am married to an American citizen and one day I will be an American citizen too. I will do it the right way though and it will cost me money, time and probably some mental health.

 

I see no problem in laws against illegal immigration. You cannot have law-enforcement agencies and then tell them they can't do their job coz it doesn't look good. Everyone should have some kind of ID on them anyway if it's a driving license or in a case of an immigrant, a green card or a visa. If a policeman asks me to identify myself, I'd be proud to show him my green card that I worked very hard to get.

 

In my opinion, illegal immigrants spit in the well. One cannot benefit from a crime and coming here illegally is a crime. Bringing up the fact that this is a nation built on the backs of immigrants is a nice try but every nation has it's history and we are living right now and a nation needs to protect itself from whatever dangers it sees fit. There are rules and if someone wants to live somewhere, he should do it by the rules of that place. Illegal immigration makes it harder for legal immigrants like me who work hard to get to where they want. They make the process harder and that makes life harder for legal immigrants and their families.

 

Just my 2 cents

Edited May 23, 2010 by ekek

[Icarus999 70]

I am fuming mad about illegal immigration. I have dealt with it up close and personal I have watched it destroy the ability of skilled labor to bargain for a fair wage... this BS about the jobs that Americans wont do is just white wash

 

Construction

Culinary Arts

Hospitality

Trucking

Maintenance

Landscaping

 

Just a few of the professions that have been decimated by illegal immigration.

 

I have seen entire crews replaced, except for a couple of key guys who were kept on just long enough to train the new crew

and (unknowingly) thier own replacements.

 

I have also dealt with the violence committed by Illegal aliens first hand, what I have seen is horrific. Most Americans cannot begin to get past the issue of race, and since many of these aliens tend to have a dark completion those who suffer from white guilt cannot take a serious look at the animalistic behavior of said illegal aliens The issue behind this level of violence is not race it is culture and education.

 

The scumbags I am referring to are the rejects and out casts of a third world culture they have an IQ of 75 to 85 at best.

they have a complete lack of impulse control.

 

For example:

 

Illegal alien shoplifter could have just run for the door... but instead he bashed in the scull of the 65 year old female store owner

with a full can of Pepsi not once not twice but three blows, then bit a chunk of flesh the size of a 50 cent piece out of the arm of a customer that grabbed him to pull him off of the woman. He then breaks a bottle and slashes at two more customers

cutting one of them. Now he starts to run, with 3 of us in pursuit he makes it out the door and runs through the Bar next door

throwing the broken bottle at a store clerk who was gaining on him, just as he cleared the back door we were on him and took him to the ground. the bastard starts screaming he has a gun and reaches for his pocket, I secured his hand and arm as it entered the pocket and what came out of the pocket was a folding knife. Before he could open it I destroyed the entire mechanism of his

arm breaking his fingers, wrist, and ripping out all of his forearm tendons while placing the elbow joint in a bar in case I needed to pop it too. The crazy son of a bitch won't stop fighting he is screaming that he is going to kill us all.. he's screaming that I broke his arm while kicking and clawing at the guy who is trying to control his other arm. About that time the bouncers make it out into

the parking lot and try to take control. These dips**ts show up with an attitude and order us off him, I kick the knife over to one of them and say do you want him?? Are you sure? Get a good grip... so these bone heads grab him and we let go. They start telling him that they are placing him under citizens arrest . The SOB starts screaming "F YOU I AM NOT A CITIZEN"

 

We were pulled aside and were in the process of being lectured that we had used excessive force by the doorman as the illegal alien claws the eyes of a bouncer with his one working hand.. gets free and runs beween some cars and into an alley... just as the cops start showing up. The cops recognized the bastard from the stores video tape, he was an illegal alien who they had arrested several times before. They never found him, don't know how as he had to have sought out medial attention.

 

This is just one example... I have several others from first hand knowledge.

[+Julhelm 266]

Blame the f***ing entrepreneurs whose only concern is getting the cheapest labor possible. Illegals wouldn't be a problem if there weren't heaps of unscrupulous capitalist f***s who gleefully take advantage of the illegals and employ them for cheap while shafting ordinary honest folks.

 

As an aside, I don't think it should be so damned difficult to move to another country legally. I mean, it takes at least a year to even get a f***ing visa into the US, while thanks to the EU I can move to the UK or Germany tomorrow and only have to worry about sorting out the tax forms.

[eraser_tr 29]

I don't disagree. I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I have my ideas and I enjoy hearing the ideas of others on how to fix the problem. Problem I find is that solutions are in short supply and not very clearly thought out. This includes the current ones now in place and being enforced.

 

My biggest concern is what happens when you take HOPE and FREEDOM from the American People. Can I get an Amen?

 

E

 

Amen!

 

Blame the f***ing entrepreneurs whose only concern is getting the cheapest labor possible. Illegals wouldn't be a problem if there weren't heaps of unscrupulous capitalist f***s who gleefully take advantage of the illegals and employ them for cheap while shafting ordinary honest folks.

 

As an aside, I don't think it should be so damned difficult to move to another country legally. I mean, it takes at least a year to even get a f***ing visa into the US, while thanks to the EU I can move to the UK or Germany tomorrow and only have to worry about sorting out the tax forms.

 

Don't blanket all entrepreneurs and capitalists as exploitative. Otherwise, yes, it shouldn't be so damn difficult. In the 1800s we had boatloads of immigrants, they came, stopped at Ellis Island and we got a record of them and they were here legally. Done deal. But now we have a complicated process of visas and consulates that the everyday peasant who wants to come to America can't understand or afford. So they just come.

 

As I just said in the other thread, a giant distinction has to be made when talking about illegal immigration.

[+Julhelm 266]

Don't blanket all entrepreneurs and capitalists as exploitative.

Why? Because a big part of them are cheap f***s who either employ illegals for slavewages or simply ship their entire manufacturing and QA operations overseas to places where labor is cheap and they don't have to worry about pesky things like unions and labor protection laws? Should I just do like the rest of you do and blame the illegals for everything? What about the fact that over hear, in the absence of illegals, they're just systematically taking advantage of unemployment internships instead because they're free labor?

 

As long as you have pricks gleefully taking advantage of this cheap labor they're going to keep coming. Fortify that border all you want, they'll keep smuggling them in by the boatload as long as smuggling in illegals is cheaper than legally hiring employees. Especially since these people never seem to end up in prison where they belong.

[Ruggbutt 45]

I run a small business, I'm a contractor. I only hire Americans. Up until the law was passed if I'd have asked if they were legal I could face charges. I was also not allowed to determine if the SS card was real or fake (I can tell the difference) or face charges. In fact the Feds only wanted me to fill out an I-9 form on them and ignore obvious signs of them being here illegally. So I only hired people who spoke perfect english. I'm furious with the Fed for causing the problems we've had to deal with in AZ by refusing to enforce the law. You can be rest assured had I not paid a traffic ticket I'd be in jail. But they come here and break the law by entry, drive with no insurance, buy fake ID and pay no taxes. And there's no punishment. And if you look on YouTube check out the protests in Phoenix against the new law. The illegals are throwing bottles at the cops. That's how they act when the law is present. You have to wonder how they act when it's not.

[Silverbolt 104]

well, i didn't had read yet the whole trhead but there is a thing i mostly see with illegal immigrant people

 

not always an illegal immigrant get free pass to get in US again once its done with turist visa expiration, at least here in Brazil our visa is valid for 5 years, and it seems an bilateral treaty will increase this peiod for 10 years, the point is: its deffinatelly hard to get an Visa here even for me an medium citzen who has no pretentions to live in US, its quite hard to get an student/tourist visa, i can't imagine a person who need to worlk offshore to survive, like an low class citzen to get an opportunity to evolve in US, this situation in Brazil, when i think it is one of richest and have very good relations with the US in latin america, i can't figure how this could work with an Mexican , Peruvian, Bolivian or else, that's for sure quite harder to get a visa, its a dellicated situation and IMO, treat such people with bad conditions just because they don't have legal cover in american soil, its quite coward.

not all officers treaty people bad, some even help those peoples but , the major treatment with illegal, its not far, IMO.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Silverbolt

[+whiteknight06604 934]

there are corporations here that exploit illegal imigrants but you can not point to one persons wrong doing and use it as an excuse for other bad behaviour.yes punishments need to be enforced against companies that hire illegal workers.The situation in the US is that in some sectors of the economy the labor unions have inflated wagegs so high that they have priced themselves out of jobs. the only way these corporations can survive is to hire cheap labor either here or abroad.Still wrong but that the reason.In other nations where labor is cheap the average "sweat shop" actualy pays more than twice the average local wage so when you shut down these factories your hurting the local economies drasticaly and increasing the need for those workers to "migrate".Taxes in the US are another reason,untill that is addressed corporations will migrate to where it's cheaper to do buisness.None of this is great but there are reasons for these actions.If it is wrong for a corporation to move where they can prosper legaly than it is far worse for a worker to migrate to a place illegaly.The Illegal and the company hiring should BOTH be punished and thats that.No one side is any eviler than the other.demonising buissness and not the worker is just plain wrong.It shouldn't matter is some "peasent" has problems filling out the paperwork thats their issue.The imigration should be set up so that we are allowing the best and brightest posible imigrants in to have an instant impact on our country not just allowing everyother nations problems here to get hand outs.I think that the educated or the ones with skills need to be allowed in first then the uneducated laborers as NEEDED.The US is not the world welfare program.If things are so bad in Mexico that people are fleeing and risking life to leave then instead of critisizing the US for protecting what we have built the world community should be harping at mexico to fix the problems that are causeing them to leave.The United States does more to cloth the poor,help the sick,liberate the oppressed than any other yet we are always the worlds whipping boy.I think that we should cut off aid for one day and see how much the world clammers for our blood sweat and treasure.If we are not allowed to do what is best for our nation then maybe we should stop sacrificing so much for what is best for millions apon millions of the rest of the world.

Edited May 23, 2010 by whiteknight06604

[+Julhelm 266]

I'm not excusing anyone. I just want people to be aware there are other factors to the illegal immigration problem than just the illegals. I wish all employers were like Ruggbutt here, but sadly they are not and those who do exploit illegals or unemployed interns or outsource their operations to el cheapo lands are hurting society back home.

[Ruggbutt 45]

I wish all employers were like Ruggbutt here, but sadly they are not and those who do exploit illegals or unemployed interns or outsource their operations to el cheapo lands are hurting society back home.

That's easy to fix. Call ICE. Or Homeland Security. Bug the crap outta them till someone shows up. I make less profit than others doing the same job I am, but I also get preferential treatment cuz I openly advertise that I hire American Journeymen. I have a hispanic guy working for me now. He's American though. It's not about skin color, it's about the country I love. His paycheck stays in this economy.