Which is better? ATI or GTX game cards.

[+ace888 327]

Need to buy a new computer, making an order today... at least by the end of the week.

 

Going through a lot of detail information on various computer components?

 

Which game cards that you guys would recommend? Looking at the following:

 

GTX 470 and 480

 

ATI 5770, 5830, 5850, and 5870

 

Divergent Questions: Any "fan" and "power supply" recommendations (looking at 750 and up with Crossfire/SLI cert.)? Also, Cyberpowercomputers or Ibuycomputers, which would you order from? I am pointing toward cyberpower.

 

Thanks

[fallenliberty 0]

Personally I am a fan of ATi cards. You couldn't go wrong with the 5850 or the 5870 depending on how much money you wanted to spend. A comparable nVidia card would also do just fine for you. If it was me, and I had the extra money, I'd get the 5870.

 

As far as power supply goes, 750 Watts is overkill for what your going for. I'd say anything around the 550W range would be plenty for your setup. Get something that is 80+ certified in efficency. Good brands are Antec, PC Power & Cooling, Corsair, and OCZ.

 

As far as where to order from, if your in the US, then I'd order from newegg.com. Great customer service and pretty competetive prices, been ordering from them for years.

 

Hope that helps.

[fallenliberty 0]

Oh, sorry I didn't read your post right. You're buying a computer complete, not building one your self.

 

On that note, Cyberpower is just fine, I've heard good things about them. When you're looking at computers from them, you want to make sure you get a 64 bit system, atleast 4GB of ram, and an Intil i5 or i7 processor. The Intel i-series processors are simply amazing, and I would advise against getting an AMD system at the moment - but don't get me wrong, I love AMD and they make good stuff... Intel just has the upper hand with the i-series at the moment.

 

What I said about power supplies and video cards is still valid though. The only reason you'd need 750W is if you were going to SLI or Crossfire your video cards. And I don't recommend doing that unless you have the money to burn. I have 2 ATI 4870's in crossfire on my system and it's not much of a performance increase. Looks cool though.

[+ace888 327]

Thanks for the input

 

Getting a LGA 1156 P55 from Gigabyte, UD4P version with Core i7-875K.

 

Thinking of 2 x 5770 with Crossfire setup or just one ATI 5870.

 

Budget is around $1800.

 

Additional inputs will be appreciated.

[fallenliberty 0]

Gigabyte makes a great motherboard. I only buy Gigabyte mobo's, never had any issues... well I blew a cap' on one once, but that was my fault.

 

If you do decide to Crossfire, id say a 750W would be perfect with a little room to spare.

 

The i7 is a beast of a processor. I've got the i7 920 in my system at home and I have yet to slow the thing down.

 

If you really want crossfire, go for it. Like I said, I've got two 4870s and I have yet to see any real great benefit from having two. Some games benefit from them more than others. But there are drawbacks to using 2 cards as well. Check out this article - http://www.overclockers.com/micro-stutter-the-dark-secret-of-sli-and-crossfire/

 

Just something to consider.

[Revvin 1]

I've mainly used nVidia for the last few years but on my next upgrade I think I'll go with ATi as they seem to give more bang for buck particularly the 5850 and the 5870 models.

[Von Paulus 8]

I wouldn't go for that motherboard.

I would choose the P55a version instead. With the P55 you don't have USB3 and SATA3.

But let me warn you about a small problems with Gigabyte motherboards and the implementation of USB3 and SATA3.

http://vr-zone.com/a...lysis/8158.html

That problem doesn't happen with Asus motherboards. They have a better implementation undoubtelly.

I've a Gigabyte P55A-UD4 and I only knew about the problem after I bought. To be honest that doesn't bother me a lot; mainly because I won't use crossfire and from what I read so far it's not a big drop in performance.

There are two other things that I didn't like either. First when I activated the C-states to have access to Intel Turbo Boost, there was problem with a whining sound that come from inside my PSU. I'm not sure if the origin was from my PSU or if it was the motherboard which was the cause of it. It wasn't a big deal because it was a really faint sound, almost couldn't notice it.

With overclocking came the second problem. I think I have a bigger VDrop than I should have. Also it's not something that bother me much, because I've a reliable and stable machine. I've tested with OCCT and it's rocking very well. Not a single crash so far.

Gigabyte uses good quality components than can help reduces the latencies, and by talking with one of my computer dealers they say that since Gigabyte upgraded their boards to Ultradurable 3 design, they don't have so much RMA.

In spite of my problems with the motherboard, I'm happy so far with it. Anyway, I wanted to warn you about these problems.

There isn't a perfect motherboard. But think twice about that USB3 and SATA3 implementation, because you shouldn't buy a motherboard without it. It might come in hand, especially the USB3 feature.

 

I've a ATI 4890, and I'm quite happy. I always prefer to go to a single card than to a crossfire solution. Mainly because there are a lot of games who don't use it. And then I always read people complaining about them when changing drivers.

I'd go to a 5850, or if there's enough money to spent, to a 5870.

A 750W PSU will be enough for one single card. Buy from a good brand like Corsair. If you go for Corsair than buy HX instead of TX, not because they are modular but because the quality is better.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Von Paulus

[+Dave 2,322]

ATI cards killed two of my Alienware laptops, that's right, a vid card killed my laptops. Nvidia has never did me wrong, always top notch performance. I have never even had one die on me. I have pile of ATI cards I lets the dogs play with outside.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Tip: Right now, the ATI 5000 series is overpriced for performance. Save money and get a 4850 card. They are faster than 5770 and much less expensive, as well, they have been around for a while and rock solid if you get a good brand. Gigabyte seems to be great, either Nvida or ATI.

 

ATI only here. I never had an ATI card fail on me -- except one 9800 had fan failure. Card still performed great except in heavy Forgotten Battles use it would overheat. Ever since I always used ATI's budget fanless cards. Never thought about adding my own fan to the high end gaming cards ... D-U-H

 

Well I recently found the perfect solution for me: I recently upgraded to the, now aging, higher performance Gigabyte 4850 fanless card. Because it has no fan, they use probably the best heat sink out there for video cards, and use very high quality componenets so it was about 20$ more than normal 4850s. Its the same heatsink they use on their Nvida fanless what I don't know cards -- well -- they used, as these high performance fanless cards are vanishing now. These are made for cases with reasonable airflow. No airflow they will burn up. That's why I wanted this, never wanting to worry about the cheap fans on expensive gaming cards. I have my Noctua case fans blowing near it and temps are good even under load.

 

This is it -- was it. Newegg is out of them now. They may be available elsewhere. But it needs good case airflow.

 

Never tried Nvida but alot of people seem to like them.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Lexx_Luthor

[Von Paulus 8]

ATI cards killed two of my Alienware laptops, that's right, a vid card killed my laptops. Nvidia has never did me wrong, always top notch performance. I have never even had one die on me. I have pile of ATI cards I lets the dogs play with outside.

In my line of work, I've seen kills from both sides. I remember, sometime ago, the problem with Nvidia's g92 chipsets used in laptops.

I've seen also some ATI burnouts in HP notebooks. It's a question of heat most of the times.

 

EDIT. I think 5770 has a bigger performance than 4850. 5770 is similar to 4870 / 4890

Edited July 15, 2010 by Von Paulus

[+ace888 327]

WOW!

 

Thank you all for the excellent inputs.

 

fallenliberty - excellent article

 

Von Paulus - thank you for sharing the article and your personal info.

 

DAVE - what can I say... you know how to burn up your equipment, and it is Alienware of all equipments? But your dog had fun playing it...

 

Lexx_Luthor - thanks for the info.

 

Looks like I will be looking at Asus Motherboards with full USB 3.0/ SATA III, etc... and ATI 5770 or 5870 single card? So many ways to configure your rig!?

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Von Paulus::

EDIT. I think 5770 has a bigger performance than 4850. 5770 is similar to 4870 / 4890

 

That could be in some DX11 games, or under some DX11 features. I was not sure about this when I upgraded so, in the same week I got an ASUS 5770 and a Gigabyte 4850 and tried them both. In SF1 which is DX9, the 4850 gives a solid 20% faster framerates, yet was listed at Newegg for about 30$ less, and that was a relatively expensive 4850. As StrikeFighters original series DX9 is my only game, I could be leading others down the wrong road here, but at least a very affordable wrong choice of road not too difficult to back out of.

[Von Paulus 8]

Von Paulus::

 

That could be in some DX11 games, or under some DX11 features. I was not sure about this when I upgraded so, in the same week I got an ASUS 5770 and a Gigabyte 4850 and tried them both. In SF1 which is DX9, the 4850 gives a solid 20% faster framerates, yet was listed at Newegg for about 30$ less, and that was a relatively expensive 4850. As StrikeFighters original series DX9 is my only game, I could be leading others down the wrong road here, but at least a very affordable wrong choice of road not too difficult to back out of.

Interesting.

I'm curious, do you remember which Catalyst version you installed?

[JediMaster 451]

I personally don't go for any of the lower end cards because it's too hard to tell what they're going to do well. I usually buy a card based on the top card that is underclocked or just cut down a bit.

My current card is the 5850, not the 5870. Before that I had a GTX 260, not the 280/285. Before that I had an 8800 GTS, not the GTX, but not the lower GT either. That I find is the sweet spot for price and performance.

Right now I think the best bang for the buck cards are the ATI 5850 and the GTX 460. The 5850 is more expensive than it was on release because demand has been so high. The 5870 is overpriced and the 470 and 480 are REALLY overpriced. The 5970 is basically a pair of OC'd 5850s on a single card IIRC and is mega overpriced.

 

Anyway, 650W is the biggest PSU you need for a single card, if you're going SLI/Crossfire, you'll need 750W minimum. Don't do 2 5770s in crossfire, because if a game doesn't support it or there's a bug and you have to just use 1 card you lose out. Buy the best single card you can afford now, with a PSU and motherboard that support SLI or Crossfire, and then buy a 2nd one later if you need the boost in performance.

[Von Paulus 8]

My current card is the 5850, not the 5870. Before that I had a GTX 260, not the 280/285. Before that I had an 8800 GTS, not the GTX, but not the lower GT either. That I find is the sweet spot for price and performance.

Right now I think the best bang for the buck cards are the ATI 5850 and the GTX 460. The 5850 is more expensive than it was on release because demand has been so high. The 5870 is overpriced and the 470 and 480 are REALLY overpriced. The 5970 is basically a pair of OC'd 5850s on a single card IIRC and is mega overpriced.

Couldn't agree more. It's what I always advise my clients to do. Avoid going to the top of the notch. But most ignore and go to the top.

[Abhi 3]

well  nvidia fan boys here too,they will always say buy nvidia but, look for value for money,in my opinion both gtx 480 and  hd 5870 r good cards,however with gtx u hv physx  but only few games support physx so it doesnt matter much,<div><br></div><div>also go for a single upper segment card than two lower end cards,no significant fps increase occurs.</div><div><br></div><div>my advice-go for HD5870,single.</div>

[fallenliberty 0]

-snip-

First when I activated the C-states to have access to Intel Turbo Boost, there was problem with a whining sound that come from inside my PSU. I'm not sure if the origin was from my PSU or if it was the motherboard which was the cause of it. It wasn't a big deal because it was a really faint sound, almost couldn't notice it.

-snip-

 

I've had a similiar issue with a whining noise. I forget what the setting was called, but it had something to do with power saving. I found it in the bios and shut it off, no more whining. I know the sound you're talking about though, I didn't notice it at first either, then it started to drive me nuts once I did. After doing a bunch of research online, I learned that it's the capictors on the motherboard that the sound is coming from... pretty weird.

 

I wasn't aware of the USB3 and SATA issue on the newer Gigabyte boards either, thanks for that info. Although, it will be atleast another year before I look at upgrading again. Asus also makes a solid board, so he will do good there.

 

And to the guy that said 1000W PSU... no... just no. You would be wasting so much energy. When choosing a PSU try to stay close to what you need with some headroom for expansion or spikes in usage.

[Von Paulus 8]

I've had a similiar issue with a whining noise. I forget what the setting was called, but it had something to do with power saving. I found it in the bios and shut it off, no more whining. I know the sound you're talking about though, I didn't notice it at first either, then it started to drive me nuts once I did. After doing a bunch of research online, I learned that it's the capictors on the motherboard that the sound is coming from... pretty weird.

Actually I don't think it was the capacitor, but it was the coils from inside the PSU. That whining coil could be caused by the motherboard or not. Since then I've changed the PSU and forgot about Intel Turbo Boost because I've done some overclocking. Probably the power saving functions you're referring are the C-states, which are the green functions of the CPU. The only problem is if I want to have Intel Turbo Boost working I've also to enable those C-states. I'm not sure if this is an exclusive feature from the Award bios. I've to try with an Amibios (an Asus for example) and see if the same thing happens, just for curiosity.

Thanks for the input.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

VonPaulus, not sure now, maybe cat 10.2 when I was switching the cards in and out. Now running 10.4. I suppose the 5000 series is taking time to optimize for, although I did notice a decent improvement in the 4850 performance between 10.2 -- 10.4, or 9.12 - 10.4 don't recall now. I quickly decided the 4850 was the keeper. Also the 5770 is rather loud, tiny fan with restrictive fan casing. I never liked "fancy" looking cooling solutions and they tend to be very loud.

 

One thing about that 5770: I got an ASUS because it had a strong solid bar across the top edge of the card which got rave reviews among Newegg customers. This bar prevents bending the card lengthwise when pushing or pulling, and gives a solid point to handle the card with while installing/removing. Its a very nice feature.

 

 

liberty::

And to the guy that said 1000W PSU... no... just no. You would be wasting so much energy. When choosing a PSU try to stay close to what you need with some headroom for expansion or spikes in usage.

A larger capacity PSUs won't use more energy than a smaller PSU for a given load. Larger PSUs do allow a larger load.

 

Get as large as possible for future expansion, and its generally thought that PSUs last longer if they are not run always near their max load, which is a rough number apparently. So you can never get "too large" a PSU energy consumption wise, although I've read articles of high wattage PSUs shutting down immediately if they don't detect a minimum threshold load. The newer high wattage PSUs have addressed that apparently, the *good* brands at least.

 

I'm running:

 

AMD Athalon II X2 250 dual core -- 65 watt max

Gigabyte "something" 790FX full size ATX motherboard

1 250GB hard drive, plugging in backup hard drives when needed and unplugging them.

1 HD 4850

a few case fans, not much else.

 

Not much load at all. And I still went for the 750W PSU. Its interesting how it works. The fan never runs because I'm using so little load in my system, maybe 20% of the PSU's max most of the time. The fan will kick in when power usage or temperature rise. However, the fan blips and stops at power on start, which I've read is to let you know its working. Basically, in my low power system, the high capacity PSU functions as a fanless PSU. Its designed for this, and Seasonic uses the best components out there for home PC, which is why they are expensive.

 

Power supply is the one item in your computer where the price differential between brands can be near an order of magnitude. However, always stay away from the bargain price PSUs. If you want to save energy, get one of the "Gold" rated PSUs. Seasonic, which generally does not advertise in competition with the brands it makes PSUs for, nevertheless stepped into the market last year with the X650 and X750 and started the popularity of the "gold" series.

 

 

Top site for PSU reviews is JonnyGuru ~> http://www.jonnyguru.com/ Power supplies are pretty much all they do.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

[H] also does top PSU reviews ~> http://www.hardocp.com/ Great forum too.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Interesting: from a X750 review at Xbit

 

:

:

The fan did not rotate at all at loads up to 150 watts. And then it started up at a speed of only 200 RPM. The PSU was silent at loads up to 450 watts (900 RPM) and comfortable at 550 watts. At a load of 600 watts the fan accelerates to 1500 RPM and the noise of the air becomes rather loud. However, that was a uniform and not irritating sound, probably because the roomy interior of the PSU poses but a minimum of aerodynamic obstacles.

 

Efficiency and Power Factor

..graph..

 

As promised by the manufacturer, the efficiency is very high, reaching a maximum of 92%. The PSU is more than 80% efficient even at a load of 50 watts or 7% of its max output power!

:

:

etc...

~ http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/seasonic-psu-roundup_6.html

So, if you have a 750 watt PSU, and are only using say 200 watts, than you are using only 200 watts. Larger PSUs let you run higher power, if you want, but also let you run low power. That gives far greater options.

 

Since my fan does not spin I'm using 150watts or less, although I have often looked to see if the fan was spinning and on rare occasions only saw it come to a stop from apparently a short run. I guess when I play the StrikeFighters, my only game, I may just be touching on 150 watts. Less than I thought. I know the fan works because when you first power on, the fan blips a bit and comes to a stop. That's to let you know its working so I've read.

[MoonGoose 4]

my cents.

 

ATI got really good performance/watt ratio and the 5xxx series is now the more performant.

 

nVidia on the other hand got better drivers and better compatibility with old games, independent games and such.

 

example, a GT260 card would outperform my ati 4870 in thirdwire games. because ati drivers aren't so generally compatible... i did a lot of tweaking via Ati Tray Tools to get SF2 perform properly with my card. and still a nvidia with same price/performance could do better.

 

ATI run unmatched on UnrealEngine based engine, Source engine, Dunia engine.

 

basically, ATI hardware is generally faster on paper, but lacks the driver optimization nVidia have.

[MoonGoose 4]

about PSUs,

 

my rule of thumb generally is, buy a PSU that is 50% higher you system needs. why?

because in general a PSU max efficent zone (where the power drained versus power needed is better) is around 50-60% load.

a good PSU have 85-88% efficency around a certain load. 85% efficency mean that (example) if your system drain 425Watts, your drain at the wall should be 500Watts.

when i did my actual system, i calculated a max load of around 320watts (way more than i need) and i bought a 560watts unit.

Now im draining 112 watts while browsing internet, while i drain 245watts while i play games.