F-86D/L Rocket Tray.

[KJakker 875]

I noticed someone comment on one of the threads that with the new animation behavior exhibited by the Lightning's rocket packs that it would be possible to make a number of other Rocket armed aircraft from the 50's and 60's viable. As I have not seen anything more substantial posted on the topic specifically since I read it I decided to see if I could make it work with one of the US rocket armed fighters that I was aware of, the F-86D and L.

 

The F-86L that came in the "F-86D/K Sabre Alaska ANG" pack in the download section I used as the test aircraft. After locating all of the relevant entries regrading its existing rocket system in that plane's Data and Loadout INI files and having extracted all of the Data and Loadout files for the Lightning I set about comparing and contrasting the two entries. First the F-86L was set to use the "Mk4_MightyMouse" rocket that I got from MGunny's Ordnance Shop II for SF2 so I made a "Mk4_MightyMouse_RP" for carrying pods, just as the Microcell 2" Rocket's AKA MICRO2 are used in the Lightning.

 

Using the data from the new pod version of the "Mk4_MightyMouse" and the data from the "Weapon Stations" [RocketTray] segment of the F-86L_Data.ini file in conjunction with the "Weapon Stations" [RocketPack1] of the Lightning and the "Lightning_RP53" from the WeaponData.INI as seen below as template's....

Continued below code box.

 

 

[RocketTray]
SystemType=WEAPON_STATION
StationID=01
StationGroupID=1
StationType=INTERNAL
NumWeapons=24
AttachmentPosition024=-0.394,1.473,-0.461
AttachmentPosition023=0.391,1.473,-0.461
AttachmentPosition022=-0.391,1.473,-0.529
AttachmentPosition021=0.391,1.473,-0.529
AttachmentPosition020=-0.322,1.473,-0.467
AttachmentPosition019=0.322,1.473,-0.467
AttachmentPosition018=-0.322,1.473,-0.536
AttachmentPosition017=0.322,1.473, -0.536
AttachmentPosition016=-0.251,1.473,-0.475
AttachmentPosition015=0.251,1.473,-0.475
AttachmentPosition014=-0.251,1.473,-0.543
AttachmentPosition013=0.251,1.473,-0.543
AttachmentPosition012=-0.181,1.473,-0.481
AttachmentPosition011=0.181,1.473,-0.481
AttachmentPosition010=-0.181,1.473,-0.549
AttachmentPosition009=0.181,1.473,-0.549
AttachmentPosition008=-0.109,1.473,-0.484
AttachmentPosition007=0.109,1.473,-0.484
AttachmentPosition006=-0.109,1.473,-0.553
AttachmentPosition005=0.109,1.473,-0.553
AttachmentPosition004=-0.038,1.473,-0.492
AttachmentPosition003=0.038,1.473,-0.492
AttachmentPosition002=-0.038,1.473,-0.562
AttachmentPosition001=0.038,1.473,-0.562
AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0
LoadLimit=1700.0
AllowedWeaponClass=RCKT
AttachmentType=NATO,USAF
DiameterLimit=0.5
LengthLimit=3.2
BombBayAnimationID=10
BombBayOpenTime=.5
BombBayCloseTime=.9
MovingPylon=TRUE
ModelNodeName=Rocket_Tray
AutomaticDoors=TRUE

[RocketPack1]
SystemType=WEAPON_STATION
StationID=3
StationGroupID=3
StationType=INTERNAL
AttachmentPosition=-0.40,2.97,-1.30
AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0
LoadLimit=500
AllowedWeaponClass=RP
AttachmentType=UK
ModelNodeName=rockets_pack
HideNodeName=no_weapon_pack
DoNotDetachPylon=TRUE
NoJettision=TRUE
BombBayAnimationID=5
BombBayOpenTime=0.5
BombBayCloseTime=0.5
AutomaticDoors=TRUE
GroupAnimation=TRUE
SpecificStationCode=LIGHTNING_RP53 

[WeaponData071]
TypeName=Lightning_RP53
FullName=2" Microcell Rocket Pack
ModelName=
Mass=100.000000
Diameter=0.000000
Length=1.067000
SubsonicDragCoeff=0.000000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.000000
AttachmentType=UK
SpecificStationCode=LIGHTNING_RP53
NationName=RAF
StartYear=0
EndYear=0
Availability=2
BaseQuantity=2
Exported=TRUE
ExportStartYear=0
ExportEndYear=0
ExportAvailability=1
WeaponDataType=2
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketTypeName=MICRO2
NumRockets=22
ROF=22.000000
FireEffectName=RocketPodEffect
FireEffectTime=0.150000
FrontCoverNodeName=
RearCoverNodeName=
ShowRockets=FALSE
Rocket01Position=-0.120000,0.000000,-0.030000
Rocket02Position=-0.060000,0.000000,0.010000
Rocket03Position=0.000000,0.000000,0.040000
Rocket04Position=0.050000,0.000000,0.070000
Rocket05Position=-0.120000,0.000000,0.040000
Rocket06Position=-0.060000,0.000000,0.070000
Rocket07Position=-0.010000,0.000000,0.100000
Rocket08Position=0.050000,0.000000,0.130000
Rocket09Position=-0.120000,0.000000,0.100000
Rocket10Position=0.000000,0.000000,0.170000
Rocket11Position=-0.180000,0.000000,0.130000
Rocket12Position=-0.120000,0.000000,0.160000
Rocket13Position=-0.060000,0.000000,0.200000
Rocket14Position=-0.010000,0.000000,0.230000
Rocket15Position=-0.170000,0.000000,0.200000
Rocket16Position=-0.120000,0.000000,0.230000
Rocket17Position=-0.060000,0.000000,0.260000
Rocket18Position=-0.170000,0.000000,0.260000
Rocket19Position=-0.060000,0.000000,0.330000
Rocket20Position=-0.170000,0.000000,0.330000
Rocket21Position=-0.110000,0.000000,0.360000
Rocket22Position=-0.170000,0.000000,0.390000

 

...Continued from Above.

I was able to create the following entries. Just replace the Weapon Stations [Rocket_Tray] entry in the Aircraft_data.ini of the F-86D/L variant change Aircraft_loadout.ini as shown below and then turn the two bottom WeaponsData entries into "Saber_RT.ini" and "Mk4_MightyMouse_RP.ini" respectively in load them up with the Strike Fighters Weapons Editor. I am not sure how historically accurate the rate of fire I used is, however upon completion instead of having to punch off individual shots the F-86L is now able to smoothly ripple its rockets just like the new Lightning's. Being relatively new to all of this I hope the I haven't wasted anyones time or done something redundant in conducting this little INI experiment.

 

 

 

Place this into the Aircraft_data.ini in this case "F-86L_data.ini"

[Rocket_Tray]
SystemType=WEAPON_STATION
StationID=01
StationGroupID=1
StationType=INTERNAL
AttachmentPosition=
AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0
LoadLimit=1700.0
AllowedWeaponClass=RP
AttachmentType=NATO,USAF
ModelNodeName=Rocket_Tray
HideNodeName=no_weapon_pack
DoNotDetachPylon=TRUE
NoJettision=TRUE
BombBayAnimationID=10
BombBayOpenTime=.5
BombBayCloseTime=.9
AutomaticDoors=TRUE
GroupAnimation=TRUE
SpecificStationCode=Saber_RT

Next, inside "F-86L_loadout.ini", change this...

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Mk4_MightyMouse
Loadout[01].Quantity=24

into this.

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Saber_RT
Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Then change the two entries below into .ini files and import them using the Strike Fighters Weapons Editor   

[WeaponDataXXX]
TypeName=Saber_RT
FullName=2.75" Mighty Mouse Rocket Tray
ModelName=
Mass=340.000000
Diameter=0.070000
Length=3.200000
SubsonicDragCoeff=0.000000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.000000
AttachmentType=NATO,USAF
SpecificStationCode=Saber_RT
NationName=USAF
StartYear=0
EndYear=0
Availability=2
BaseQuantity=2
Exported=TRUE
ExportStartYear=0
ExportEndYear=0
ExportAvailability=1
WeaponDataType=2
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketTypeName=Mk4_MightyMouse_RP
NumRockets=24
ROF=24.000000
FireEffectName=RocketPodEffect
FireEffectTime=0.150000
FrontCoverNodeName=
RearCoverNodeName=
ShowRockets=FALSE
Rocket01Position=0.038000,1.473000,-0.562000
Rocket02Position=-0.038000,1.473000,-0.562000
Rocket03Position=0.038000,1.473000,-0.492000
Rocket04Position=-0.038000,1.473000,-0.492000
Rocket05Position=0.109000,1.473000,-0.553000
Rocket06Position=-0.109000,1.473000,-0.553000
Rocket07Position=0.109000,1.473000,-0.484000
Rocket08Position=-0.109000,1.473000,-0.484000
Rocket09Position=0.181000,1.473000,-0.549000
Rocket10Position=-0.181000,1.473000,-0.549000
Rocket11Position=0.181000,1.473000,-0.481000
Rocket12Position=-0.181000,1.473000,-0.481000
Rocket13Position=0.251000,1.473000,-0.543000
Rocket14Position=-0.251000,1.473000,-0.543000
Rocket15Position=0.251000,1.473000,-0.475000
Rocket16Position=-0.251000,1.473000,-0.475000
Rocket17Position=0.322000,1.473000,-0.536000
Rocket18Position=-0.322000,1.473000,-0.536000
Rocket19Position=0.322000,1.473000,-0.467000
Rocket20Position=-0.322000,1.473000,-0.467000
Rocket21Position=0.391000,1.473000,-0.529000
Rocket22Position=-0.391000,1.473000,-0.529000
Rocket23Position=0.391000,1.473000,-0.461000
Rocket24Position=-0.394000,1.473000,-0.461000

[WeaponDataXXX]
TypeName=Mk4_MightyMouse_RP
FullName=Mighty Mouse FFAR
ModelName=Mk4_MightyMouse
Mass=7.000000
Diameter=0.069800
Length=1.200000
SubsonicDragCoeff=0.120000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.222000
AttachmentType=
SpecificStationCode=
NationName=
StartYear=0
EndYear=0
Availability=0
BaseQuantity=0
Exported=FALSE
ExportStartYear=0
ExportEndYear=0
ExportAvailability=0
WeaponDataType=1
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketPod=TRUE
Retarded=FALSE
FinStabilized=TRUE
SpinStabilized=TRUE
HasGrowl=TRUE
EffectClassName=SmallRocketEffects
ReleaseDelay=0.000000
WarheadType=0
Explosives=1.400000
FusingDistance=0.500000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=0
Accuracy=70
MaxTurnRate=0.000000
MaxLaunchG=2.500000
LockonChance=0
LaunchReliability=70
ArmingTime=2.000000
SeekerFOV=0.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=0.000000
SeekerTrackRate=0.000000
SeekerRange=0.000000
CLmax=14.000000
MinFreq=0.000000
MaxFreq=0.000000
MinLaunchRange=0.000000
MaxLaunchRange=0.000000
Duration=60.000000
CounterCountermeasure=20.000000
NoiseRejection=20.000000
CapabilityFlags=0x00000002
LoftAngle=0.000000
DescentAngle=0.000000
MaxLoftAltitude=0.000000
BoosterStart=0.000000
BoosterDuration=1.100000
BoosterAccel=80.000000
BoosterEffectName=RocketFireEffect
BoosterSoundName=Rocket
BoosterNodeName=
BoosterPosition=0.000000,-0.620000,0.000000
SustainerDuration=0.000000
SustainerAccel=0.000000
SustainerEffectName=
SustainerSoundName=
SustainerPosition=0.000000,-0.620000,0.000000
InFlightEffectName=RocketInFlightEffect
InFlightSoundName=
ReleaseAnimationID=1
ReleaseAnimationTime=0.300000
ReleaseAnimationDelay=0.050000
EODisplayFlags=0
CEP=20.000000

 

According to the Readme files included with it, the Saber I used for this test was developed buy the following people.

 

F-86L Lima Sabre by Bunyap, Fubar512.

Skins by USAFMTL and Sundowner.

Original 3D model by Zur

 

The "Mk4_MightyMouse" rocket Data I used is from "MGunny 331KillerBee's Ordnance Shop II".

[FastCargo 412]

The question is, will they hit anything?

 

FC

[Fubar512 1,350]

You forgot to add the following EXP2 parameter to the mighty mouse rocket data: AirToAir=TRUE

[KJakker 875]

You forgot to add the following EXP2 parameter to the mighty mouse rocket data: AirToAir=TRUE

 

When I searched for "AirToAir=TRUE" in the data entry for MICRO2 and its associated rocket packs, Lightning_RP1, and Lightning_RP53 I did not find an "AirToAir=" entry among the data. As such where exactly in the entry does AirToAir=TRUE go?

Edited December 17, 2010 by KJakker

[FastCargo 412]

AirToAir=TRUE is for the individual rockets, not the rocket packs.

 

FC

[AntEater 0]

Nice one, only the rockets have a too low trajectory.

You can compensate by simply waiting until the bomber fills your wind screen and then let it rip, but the AI fires the rockets and then rams the target...;)

 

Can someone do the same for the F-89 Scorpion and the F-102?

[Fubar512 1,350]

Nice one, only the rockets have a too low trajectory.

 

Did you add the AirToAir=True line to the rocket's weapondata.ini?

[+paulopanz 2,853]

Very good done ....!

 

 

Could You post the updated plane or new inis & weapons? Please.

 

 

.................I was working on some 'strange' F-86D & IF-86D with red star on wings from Yugoslavia.

 

 

Paul

[+hgbn 91]

Try add this line in the data ini under flightcontrol section, RocketBoresightAngle=2.5

[FastCargo 412]

Doesn't seem to help much really. It seems to compensate for the player's boresight, but the wingmen still aim short.

 

FC

[+christian59 8]

hello

i use a fake MightyMouse rocket

it's a gun so wingman have some hit with this weapon

i think it can be used with rocket station

is some one can make a working data it will be great

 

Christian

 

Ps: i use this weapon with F-86D , F-86L , F-94C , SuperMystereB2 , MIG-17 , MIG-19

F-86D-FS2.7z

Edited December 17, 2010 by christian59

[+hgbn 91]

I tried to go another way around and ad the line AirToAir=TRUE for the Mk4 MightyMouse rockets and didn't alter the original rocket tray at all... Player aircraft works like a charm. Shot down 3 Bagders in one mission hitting with 6 out of 24 rockets. Not bad if I may say so. But the AI seems to jettison all the rockets instead of firing them when they are close enough to shoot I don't get it as I could select the rockets as A2A and A2G. So I haven't had the AI to engage with the rockets at all.. BTW AI don't handles the FM very well.. Seems they are struggling just to keep airborne

Edited December 17, 2010 by hgbn

[+hgbn 91]

Christian, we know the fake rocket gun method. But now TK have implemented the real thing, we might as well see if we can the stuff to work properly.. The gun doesn't have the same effect/effects as the rocket when it hits a bomber. Not to mention the smoke trail of the rocket.

[Wrench 9,495]

The Scropion rockets work just fine as I released them; even the AI manages to get in a few hits now and then ... of course, I cheated on the rockets, and gave them a sustainer to keep them flying straight. Look in the weaponsdata, and you'll see (covered the F-89D upgrade paks' readme)(also the same cheat as used on the 17PF and 17PF(sp-16)

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited December 17, 2010 by Wrench

[KJakker 875]

FastCargo and hgbn, thanks for the advice on the AirToAir=TRUE line and adding the RocketBoresightAngle=2.5 to the flightcontrol section of the data.ini. In addition to that I changed the "Mk4_MightyMouse_RP's "CEP=" from 20 back to the 0 it was in the original "Mk4_MightyMouse". I had originally changed it because the MICRO2 has a CEP of 30 and the other US 2.75" rockets have ones from between 20 and 25. I just tested the redone "Mk4_MightyMouse_RP" (data posted below) with the RocketBoresightAngle=2.5 under the Flight Control section, as recommended by hgbn, in an F-86L intercept mission. The results were that my wingman and I attacked four Tu-16 Badger's and we each shot down one of them and I damaged a second before our ammo was exhausted. I still had to close till the bombers filled my gunsight before launching, but then a lot of the great aces have said that one needs to get as close as possible before opening fire so I figured I would follow that advice.

 

Now a few question, do you think we are going to need to play around with the CEP= of the various rockets? As unguided ripple fired weapons it sounds like it would be important to experiment with. Also what do you think about the rate of fire of the rockets, I set it to fire all rounds in one second because the Lightning's pods are do the same, should it be modified? If so does anyone have reliable data on what the historical rate of fire of the F-86D/L's rockets were? Another point is that I changed the warhead type and fusing distance of my "Mk4_MightyMouse_RP" variant from that used by the original Ordnance Shop's "Mk4_MightyMouse". That one originally was set to fuse at 25m and had a 1.04kg HEAT warhead which I changed to an HE warhead with a reduced fusing distance to 0.5m due to the Mighty Mouse's small warhead size, do you think this warrants further adjustment? Finally I wanted to bring up an important point concerning the FM data for the F-86D/K/L. Every one that I have downloaded has the Ymac= value of all the lift surfaces set to negative values when the LeftWing, LeftOuterWing, and LeftStab should have positive values. Is possible that this issue is interfering in the AI's employment of the rockets? Regardless if we are going to be updating the F-86D/L's data to make them compatible with the for the new rocket system then I think that this issue should be addressed at the same time.

Edit: Wrench, I forgot to say that I will look into adding the sustainer as you suggested. I will report back after I have tested it.

 

[WeaponData001]
TypeName=Mk4_MightyMouse_RP
FullName=Mighty Mouse FFAR
ModelName=Mk4_MightyMouse
Mass=7.000000
Diameter=0.069800
Length=1.200000
SubsonicDragCoeff=0.120000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.222000
AttachmentType=
SpecificStationCode=Saber_RT
NationName=
StartYear=0
EndYear=0
Availability=0
BaseQuantity=0
Exported=FALSE
ExportStartYear=0
ExportEndYear=0
ExportAvailability=0
WeaponDataType=1
RailLaunched=FALSE
RocketPod=TRUE
Retarded=FALSE
FinStabilized=TRUE
SpinStabilized=TRUE
HasGrowl=TRUE
EffectClassName=SmallRocketEffects
ReleaseDelay=0.000000
WarheadType=0
Explosives=1.400000
FusingDistance=0.500000
ClusterBomblets=0
ClusterDispersion=0.000000
GuidanceType=0
Accuracy=70
MaxTurnRate=0.000000
MaxLaunchG=2.500000
LockonChance=0
LaunchReliability=70
ArmingTime=2.000000
SeekerFOV=0.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=0.000000
SeekerTrackRate=0.000000
SeekerRange=0.000000
CLmax=14.000000
MinFreq=0.000000
MaxFreq=0.000000
MinLaunchRange=0.000000
MaxLaunchRange=0.000000
Duration=60.000000
CounterCountermeasure=20.000000
NoiseRejection=20.000000
CapabilityFlags=0x00000002
LoftAngle=0.000000
DescentAngle=0.000000
MaxLoftAltitude=0.000000
BoosterStart=0.000000
BoosterDuration=1.100000
BoosterAccel=80.000000
BoosterEffectName=RocketFireEffect
BoosterSoundName=Rocket
BoosterNodeName=
BoosterPosition=0.000000,-0.620000,0.000000
SustainerDuration=0.000000
SustainerAccel=0.000000
SustainerEffectName=
SustainerSoundName=
SustainerPosition=0.000000,-0.620000,0.000000
InFlightEffectName=RocketInFlightEffect
InFlightSoundName=
ReleaseAnimationID=1
ReleaseAnimationTime=0.300000
ReleaseAnimationDelay=0.050000
EODisplayFlags=0
CEP=0.000000
AirToAir=TRUE

Edited December 17, 2010 by KJakker

[Wrench 9,495]

all 06/08 1stGen aircraft pretty much need new flight models. Period.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+hgbn 91]

Yeah and the models them selves could use a rebuild to,, I noticed after the exp2 that the ailerons and flaps aren't where they used to be... But that's another story.. I still like them anyway

[FastCargo 412]

Yeah and the models them selves could use a rebuild to,, I noticed after the exp2 that the ailerons and flaps aren't where they used to be... But that's another story.. I still like them anyway

 

Henrik,

 

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

 

FC

[FastCargo 412]

I've been fighting this for a while.

 

KJakker, set up an intercept with your mod, but make it larger, say 8 interceptor and 16 targets. Run the mission several times. The larger the sample, the more accurate the actual averages. A single iteration of a mission with 2 interceptors really isn't definitive.

 

The thing I'm noticing with my aircraft is that the aircraft will shoot when pointing at the target, BUT, if where the nose is pointing and where the flight path is going are different, any rockets or missiles will fire along the flight path, not necessarily where the aircraft is pointing.

 

FC

[+hgbn 91]

Henrik,

 

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

 

FC

 

 

FC if you look at the wings in this shot You'll notice that both flaps and ailerons are no longer running along their intended axises as they used to... But like I said it's no big deal after all it is a old model.

[FastCargo 412]

Hmmmm...that ain't right. Might be an easy fix with just an ini adjustment.

 

FC

[+hgbn 91]

Hope so

[+Spillone104 553]

Seems more an axis issue.

RotationAxis=

See what it have and change with Z-AXIS, X-AXIS or Y-AXIS. That should do the job.

[Wrench 9,495]

all the D/K/L have the aileron issue is SF2 ... I did check them in a remaining 08 WoE, and they sit perfectly. So, hopefully it's some ini edit to fix.

 

of course, my stick it dying .. so it's hard to fly

 

wrench

kevin stein

[KJakker 875]

I've been fighting this for a while.

 

KJakker, set up an intercept with your mod, but make it larger, say 8 interceptor and 16 targets. Run the mission several times. The larger the sample, the more accurate the actual averages. A single iteration of a mission with 2 interceptors really isn't definitive.

 

The thing I'm noticing with my aircraft is that the aircraft will shoot when pointing at the target, BUT, if where the nose is pointing and where the flight path is going are different, any rockets or missiles will fire along the flight path, not necessarily where the aircraft is pointing.

 

FC

 

 

I did the test and I see what you mean. I have watched the rest of my squadron send their salvo of rockets off time after time in what would have been perfect firing solutions if the bomber were just a bit lower or the fighter a bit higher. One thing I have found is that I am most accurate with the rockets when I center the aim dot in the ASE Radar Circle on the radar scope. Is there some way that the gunsight could be made to indicate that aim point and of making the AI use it?

Edited December 18, 2010 by KJakker