SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: Stock F/A-18E with 4 x 9X and 4 x AIM-120

Opposition: MIG-23MLD with gun.

 

Unlike the previous engagements instead of going high I went low or rolled over and turned back into him. The MIG kept on and began a turning fight but I think I could have managed a shot but instead used some tactical patience this time and continued with him. He then turned inside me and passed me but did not have the angle for a gun shot. He continued high with me turning into him and I fired a high off boresight shot and killed him. Probably less than two minutes elapsed.

 

It should be noted most of my Super Hornet (mainly the F model) engagements have been with the projected engine capabilities (EDE and EPE) and yes the stock Super Hornet is a lemon (the main reason I'm testing is there may be a real world buy of the EDE engines) and therefore felt it would be more "fair" if I use what everybody has been using. Suffice to say if the Navy officially buys the EDE engines then I'll update the engine values accrodingly. However in evaluation I felt I had the same level of energy (slightly less though) but throughout the fight I had perfect control of the aircraft. The caveat though is that with the EPE engines on the F model i maintain the same level of energy without afterburner in which as you can see in the shots I maintained throughout the fight until completion. Thankfully this time their in sequence.

Edited February 21, 2011 by EricJ

[+daddyairplanes 10,247]

F-4E Phantom II (78) vs. F-15C Eagle (85)

 

interesting results esp as both were essiantially designed as bvr platforms and the C model Eagle being 20 years younger and more advanced shoulda won hands down. the only known match between the two resulted in two saudi F-15C downing two IRIAF F-4 over the Persian Gulf. i think sparrows were used tho. these DACT reports are good reading and informative. however while guns are fun, i like Limas!

if you guys are lookin for a challange tho try the ealier years (1948-1960). takes you alot more to get your kills

Edited February 21, 2011 by daddyairplanes

[+EricJ 4,246]

I think the general impression is that me and Ceasar are doing most of the work but there is not a year limit on the reports. I'm obviously a modern aircraft flyer (though have gotten as early as the late 60's) so my reports are geared towards that. I would definitely like to see more of a variety and I need to fly the same.

[+daddyairplanes 10,247]

ok went back and read EricJ's posts on Eagle v Phantom combat. looking historically at it, by the time the Eagle was on the scene most users were switching ot bombtruck strike role for the Phantom. against a similar generation of jets the Phantoms 2 J-79's allowed it to fight vertical where its thrust let it get up there faster than the oppostion and the wieght allowed it to get down below faster. however the Eagles much higher thrust to weight ratio negates this advantage the F-4 held. going against say later model Mig 23 or 29 on late 80s strike missions, i will point my nose at the threat long enough to loose on of my 3 sparrows at em, then stay around 300 ft and 600kts. red air dont seem to get down low. i woulld think this could work against the eagle. matter of fact similar tactic was discussed in the book The Warbirds, tho F-4E v Mirage 2000. course much of my flying tends towards strike missions or old school 100 divisions of tanks in the fulda gap CAS. when i feel like a2a action i either get the F-80 or Spitfire cranked up or have an easy day and club baby seals in my Eagle or Tomcat.

 

is this strictly restricted to dogfighting or could other scenarios be discussed (ie Phantom inbound to put ordinance on runway intercepted by Mig23, or Eagle intercepting Hinds)

Edited February 21, 2011 by daddyairplanes

[+EricJ 4,246]

I strictly keep it to the dogfight as more often than not its a bit easy to lock an AMRAAM and shoot a plane down. I started the DACT because I've never really pursued dogfighting ever. I've got years of simulator strike proficiency but I've kept the a2a stuff on the backburner. Plus a few tests I ran for other people got me interested in doing this. Then again I'm Army (okay National Guard) like you so I'm sure the actual Air Force/Navy guys can say better but here's a Wiki definition:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissimilar_air_combat_training

 

So going by that I would keep it to the dogfight but then again it could be a more practical thing for air-to-air combat.

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: Stock F/A-18E with 2 x 9X and 4 x tanks and 1 x Refuelling pod plus gun

Opposition: F-14A with gun.

 

I know Ceasar is going to sacrifice another Super Hornet as I sacrificed his Tomcat n this bout... I'm testing revised fuel loads for the tanks and performance on how the aircraft will fly with "normal" engines. With 2200 extra gallons as weight I lumbered off the deck fine and proceeded east to rendezvous with the Iranian F-14A that I was destined to shoot down. Upon the merge I pushed the nose down again as it seems to make him work for me than going up and then coming around. Anyways he passes me and we end up passing each other a few times. I think if the Tomcat AI had a better turn ability then the first picture would have concluded that I would have been shredded. A few times we buzzed each other and the second position the Iranian equivalent of Goose flipped me the bird and flew past me trying to get into a good firing position. By the third image it was just a matter of some energy circles in order to work him into a better angle for a shot as in that point as we have seen my missiles miss all the time. So eventually by the fourth image he's extending outwards for another try at a circle or just out of energy. Fine enough as I take my first shot and down him. It should be noted I did take off the afterburner for a little bit as well I don't think I was going to run out of fuel anytime soon...

 

Seriously Ceasar I'd like to see a manual on how to fly the Tomcat in ACM as I need to really try and see how I can defeat my own project plane...

 

And it should be noted that flying four tanks and the refuel pod is like flying the MF F/A-18A. Analog I know but you feel it...

Edited February 22, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: Stock F/A-18E with 2 x 9X, 2 x AIM-210 and 4 x tanks and 1 x Refuelling pod plus gun

Opposition: Gripen with gun.

 

Unlike last night's bout this one was with a lighter more agile fighter (happy? ) while I stayed "5-wet" just as an experiment. After the merged to still turn into him and set myself up for a 'winder shot. I had contemplated a gun kill but the Gripen is small and therefore I worked on the missile kill. After another turn I did manage to overshoot during a scissors (third image) and he was able to get some shots off but nothing connected. I guess he thought I was going to splash into the ocean (padlock view is of course disorienting during ACM sometimes), fixed myself and turned back into him. Did a few circular energy turns, went vertical and played around some more before I felt it was a good time to shoot him down. Got above him, locked him up and fired from high and splashed him.

[+daddyairplanes 10,247]

EricJ thats cool with the dogfight only. woulda like to do a rematch on Eagle v 12 Hind, esp since i forgot some carry aphids and got my tail shot off after expending all my missles and closin in for guns! hmm maybe wingmen are useful sometimes......

Edited February 22, 2011 by daddyairplanes

[+EricJ 4,246]

Now that would be very interesting to read

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: A-7D with gun and 2 x AIM-9L

Opposition: F-4E with gun.

 

Something that I wanted to try that popped in my head was old skool versus old skool. Not my first fime flying the SLUF (which reminds me I gotta reinstall the MF -7E) but my first time flying this thing. Started the merge by nosing down and then coming over the top and turned into the Phantom which had extended out or at least I thought when I turned into him. I thought that it would be another energy fight but he must have really bled a lot as instead of going for a missile shot I went to guns. Fired a few bursts missing him for a few times, then slowed down and aimed better and chopped his left wing and apparently his tail off ending the engagement.

 

I have to say that this was a surprise but glad to be rewarded with good response. It bleeds energy fast but on the same token doesn't have a problem regaining it. The only thing was that I was clean except for two 'winders so another bout heavily laden may come around.

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: F-5F with gun and 2 x AIM-9L and one 275-gal centerline tank.

Opposition: MIG-23MLA with gun.

 

Started out with the merge and went into an energy fight from the get go. The MIG-23 did manage to make a couple passes and while he tried to get in a kill slot he mainly just tried to run down my energy. Which as you'll see in the last screenshot I was basically at less than 200 knots by guesstimation anyways. Once I felt I had a shot I took it downing the aircraft. this is my first time flying the F-5F and it's not bad at all as far as handling is concerned but one thing I did learn (the whole point of the plane...) was to not pull so hard on the stick. The newer jets are more forgiving the older jets can't be pulled as hard therefore my energy bleeds. Learned a good lesson during this fight so hope to continue.

Edited February 23, 2011 by EricJ

[Slartibartfast 153]

Nice morning coffee reading... will be back up once I have my new Video cards as I want to write some up but using the A-4...

[+EricJ 4,246]

Sure thing Slartibartfast I'd like to see some other reports...

 

Me: F/A-18E Stock with 1 Refueling pod, 4 x wing tanks, 2 x AIM-9X, 2 x AIM-120

Opposition: KF2 - Hammer with guns

 

While on one hand this configuration worked with the Tomcat and the Gripen, it didn't work with the KF2 Hammer at the conclusion of the fight after the merge. Did I have a clean shot? Did I take it? Nope and in reflection I should have taken it but the whole point is to learn from your mistakes as about thirty seconds later the KF2 got behind me and gunned me down quite easily. After the merge I would say a minute after I was shot down. The KF2 clean obviously has more energy due to less weight and if in this situation drop all tanks and take care of it. If it's required to keep the tanks, try and kill it as soon as humanly possible, or take a shot, miss and take advantage of his disarray when he tries to recommit. No pics because well... it didn't last long enough...

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: Mig-29C with 4 x R-73 and 2 x R-27R, 1 centerline tank (prior to engagement).

Opposition: F-16A Blk 10

 

Decided to go on the Red side for this one, taking the MiG-29C back out. Prior to intercepting the F-16 I had decided to drop the tank as I wasn't going that far in the first place. After the merge (which I had to initiate better by turning off the jammer) it became I would say more of a vertical fight rather than wholly horizontal as the F-16 managed to get in my six quite easily. Somehow or someway I managed to prevent a gun kill by him and he went south a bit, maybe lost contact and trying to reacquire as I did go vertical on him (which was strange since he was clean). When I came over the top I leveled off and took my first R-73 shot. I thought it would connect but it was easily fooled by the flares and the aspect, allowing the F-16 to fly away unscathed. I followed up with a second shot, also missing. I took another shot and missed, and a fourth shot missing again. By that time I switched to my R-27Rs. For my previous kills and something to understand the best way to get an SAHM or AHM kill is to set your radar at the lowest setting due to common sense distances. Plus most of the time the opposing aircraft is going to not have much room to maneuver, i.e. in the "no escape zone" and your chances of a kill are greater. I maneuvered a bit and took the shot, downing the Falcon. In retrospect I could have probably got a guns kill but that was my last resort option rather than something I wanted at the moment.

 

It should obviously be noted that the R-73M2 used obviously is fooled easily by flares at a distance. Obviously in the "no escape zone" you'll have better success in achieving a kill. The R-73 is highly maneuverable but again the flare issue makes it more likely an opposing aircraft will be able to survive in the knife fight. As I've had a 9X literally fly towards the sun attempting to shoot it down but something to keep in mind.

[Caesar 305]

Just got back from a short TDY. Eric, Iranian Turkey shoots are A-OK with me (might love the bird, but in the hands of the enemy? No way, Baby!) - Might take my Turkey against a Bug, but it'll be a tough one if I'm flying the A. Will see.

[+EricJ 4,246]

True but the thing is at a certain point the ASPJ on the Super Bug can jam the A's AWG-9 pretty good enough for a long range shot. The Phoenix Sealed ECCM version is very good at defeating the jammer so while I know I can beat any model in the knife fight it's got me cold BVR. And besides it's not to degrade the bird or any for that matter but in some cases I'm seeing some of the things debunked due to just newer aircraft being fielded.

 

Me: F-16A Netz Blk 10 w/ 4 x Python 4 and gun, 1 x 300gal center tank

Opponent: MiG-29C -CCCP mit gun

 

Started off the same though before the actual merge I nosed down and brought my Python 4s to bear and could have fired (and probably missed). Did some floundering around a bit and passed by each other quite a bit. He lost sight of me so he extended outwards while I was heading away from him at full burner. Big mistake since by that time he turned back into me (lucky he had a gun or he would have gotten me cold with a heater shot) and I was going Mach 1.32... so I chopped the throttle slowing down and eventually I turned into him to get a good head on shot. Switched to the Pythons (I usually keep the gun most of the time selected so I don't get annoyed by the growl... yes I know you don't have to say it...) and locked and fired on him, killing him with a high off-boresight shot as he was actually above me when I fired.

Edited February 24, 2011 by EricJ

[Caesar 305]

Okay, got a few F-14B vs. X engagements - none of 'em involving Super Bugs, Bugs, or otherwise. I wound up nearly loosing, or rather exposing myself during the first two fights while reaching for the print screen button for the screenies! In all instances, the F-14B was loaded with 75% fuel, clean pancake, 2x AIM-7M, 2x AIM-9M. Enemy A/C were 100% fuel, standard air to air loadout. It should be pointed out that I always hit the DACT engagements at 75% fuel since it is actually more fuel than "combat weight" (60%) but with only 75%fuel and 4x AIM-9's, the F-14B produces about .99:1 thrust to weight, so once I open those GE engines, I burn it to 1+:1 right quick.

 

First was a fight against the Mirage 2000C (TMF). I expected to fight the airplane similarly to the F-16, but got sloppy a bit. The thing is, this aircraft doesn't seem to sustain turns as well as the F-16, so apart from my initial overshoot caused by the screen capture button, he never got his nose on me long enough for a shot. This went from a one circle to a short horizontal scissors, to another one-circle, sustained, that got low. The Mirage didn't want to crash like the F-16 so abandoned his turn, making himself predictable, then began turning again. I followed and shot him with an AIM-9. If I had shot at him earlier, I'd have probably had him within the first one-circle.

 

 

Second fight was against an F-15C Eagle (85). This one would have been pretty damn quick if I didn't want a picture of a gun kill. I entered a one-circle, and rather than worry about preserving energy, I just pulled into him, getting a tone before his nose was anywhere near me. I still had excellent energy, and would have actually pulled in front of him (which would have killed me). I botched the shot thanks to my screen shot processing (again), and a short scissors ensued, lasting one iteration. I was back on the Eagle's tail and shot him with my gun.

 

 

 

The last fight was against an Su-27 Flanker. Now, bearing in mind that I faced a Su-33 earlier, I still treated the Flanker with respect, because I knew it wouldn't be bogged down by 6x AA-9's. Indeed, this fight was the fastest, only because we both burnt energy to get inside each other and ended up nose-on within the first few seconds of the fight. I shot two AIM-9's at him, the first one at high off-boresight, and it did not track. Second one was nose-on and hit him right behind the cockpit, killing him in a total of 37 seconds.

 

 

 

 

Conclusions: Mirage 2000C doesn't sustain turns as well as F-16 and can be fought to a draw with the F-14B pretty easily and probably killed quick enough if you manage your energy better. F-15C was easy. Su-27, kill as fast as possible. If I hadn't shot first, he'd have had me probably within seconds of nose-on.

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: F/A-18E with 4 x AIM-9X and 6 x AIM-120

Opponent: Mirage 2000B ADA S5 with 2 x MICA IR

 

I thought I had selected a more lethal 2000C but instead I ended up with this aircraft instead. The MICA IR didn't maneuver very well after dropping flares and jinking. I wish I kept the screenshot but overall I got one after the other as soon as I was within his range. Since the Mirage 2000B didn't have any guns he didn't press anything except the throttle in which he tried to escape and I shot him down with an AIM-120.

Edited February 25, 2011 by EricJ

[Caesar 305]

Okay, since it was requested (and genuinely with no malice aimed at the Super Hornet), here's some tips on how to defeat the F/A-18F in close. My aircraft was the F-14B Tomcat (VF-1 Wolfpack "what should have been skin") with 2x AIM-7M, 4x AIM-9M, gun, 75% fuel, no tanks. The Super Bug was packing 2x AIM-9X, 4x AIM-120C AMRAAM, gun and 100% fuel but no tanks. I fought the Bug 3 times.

 

First, make sure you get some good lateral separation between you and the Super Bug - don't go at him directly from nose-to-nose, or his instantaneous turn rate will get you. If he only needs to sustain a 9g turn for a couple seconds to get his nose to a threatening position, being too close in a plane that doesn't burn energy as quick will kill you. In all three instances of my engagements, we passed and were neutral with some space between us.

 

The next thing was to select the right energy area to stay in. In my case, I choose about 450KIAS, which allows me to sustain between 7.5 and 8.5g with my Turkey Beast in full blower. Pulling 9-10g will burn your energy too quick. The F/A-18's phased array will give you warnings in a one-circle right around the same time your AWG-9 will begin to see the Bug. That said, I noticed in all instances with the Target-to-Self camera that my Turkey Beast would end up slightly behind the AI Bug's tail, but clearly not enough for a reliable shot, and with about 30-degrees off-boresight, and the Bug pulling harder into me. At this point, I pull back on the throttles to get the Cat to corner and burn the speed to about 380KIAS. Even if the Rhino is pulling into me, the F-14 is burning its energy slightly faster at this point and the nose will come 'round to at least allow for an AIM-9 shot.

 

One-Circle, 8g turning fight

 

In most instances, the Bug should reverse as you get nose on, which will leave him open for a safe Sidewinder shot. If you want to go for guns, your GE engines will out-accelerate the Rhino (real world and sim world), but bear in mind, he can out turn you instantaneously, and can force an overshoot quick. With his AIM-9X's compared to your AIM-9M's, that's a dangerous bet to play, better to end the fight with a Sidewinder to the tail than a bullet to the cockpit.

 

Rhino reverses right into my nose

 

Calculated pulls result in a gun kill

 

If you start off in a one-circle, you can also force the Bug to do what you want to by expending one of your AIM-9's as if it were your Forlorn Hope. First AIM-9 will cause the Bug to break off his one-circle as you both get close to missile parameters. He will then turn back into you after having extended his circle by having to go tangent to you to fool the missile. This opens him up for a second missile pretty damn quick.

 

Look close, and you'll see a Turkey Beast at 6o'clock

 

 

Finally, should you decide not to shoot him with an AIM-9, or you don't have any left, keep pressing the initial turn, and manage your energy such that you get to where your nose is slightly behind him and pull in to threaten him by going to MIL power. He should start to run. If he doesn't (seen below), he might turn into you. Keep turning into the Bug and plug in the blower. Don't go for Max G, but rather probably 5g or so turn. If he keeps turning, you can roll and pull into a descending half-loop. This will put him back on your nose and within AIM-9 parameters. If you have no AIM-9's left, you'll probably keep iterating this to prevent the Bug from threatening you until the deck is right close, or he might break away from you, allowing you to regain energy and chase him down. In the instance I was in, I had some AIM-9's left and he wound up right on the nose.

 

The descending half-turn

 

On the Rhino's tail, turning with him

 

Kill shot

 

So, you can very well beat the Rhino in the Turkey, especially the B or D, probably not as easily in the A. The thing is going to be trading off either max performance or max g turns at advantageous points. In all instances, I initially started the one-circle fight nose-low to save energy once I found a good speed to fight the Bug at. 380-450KIAS seems to be the range where you're still in the fight. At slower speeds, you can still curl inside the Bug, but if you get too slow, you'll be spending too much time rebuilding energy, and will probably have to open yourself up to attack by flying at very low g or in a near straight line. 300 is the number to keep above. Below that, the Super Bug is going to outperform your Turkey until VERY slow speeds, where it doesn't generate vortex lift and the Turkey's flaps give it superior wing loading with superior thrust to weight. You probably won't get that slow before dying. Also, the majority of these fights ended at about 15K feet. Only the fight with the half-loop ended lower (13K feet).

 

Hope this gives some ideas on how to kill the Rhino that's been giving you such problems!

[+EricJ 4,246]

I just crack jokes that's all Ceasar as it doesn't matter what it is if it's just a target... but good stuff to read as well.

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: Mirage 2000C S5 with 4 x MICA IR missiles and gun plus tank (ejected before the fight).

Opponent: F/A018E Stock with gun only.

 

Quite interestingly this was one of the more interesting fights I have had so far. It's not a "lets knock down the Super Bug" kick but just shows how sometimes it can be a threat, even though it is a lemon (it should be noted the E is the standard lemon version). Anyways before the merge I forgot to have my throttle going as the initial velocity gave me plenty of energy to fly towards the Super Bug and realize "hey, you're throttle is at 0%. Fixed that problem and began the fight as I nosed down and then pulled up into him as he flew past. I entered a half loop and surprisingly turned right into the kill slot of the Bug. I could have taken the shot and hit him, which down the explanation proved some other issues and made it really interesting. Continued some turning and burning but overall despite some blacking out I was on the Bug like flies on meat pies. So I got tired and fired my first MICA, with it tracking and hitting him. So he kept flying missing a tailplane and aileron. So I fired another shot striking him again. Then I followed him around some more hoping he'd just roll over and die. Well he didn't so I shot him again with another MICA. Struck him good but he was still good to go. Then he turned back to the coast and then I shot him again. This time both tailplanes were gone and needless to say I expended all four MICAs and he was still in the fight... so I had to bow down and go about gunning hm down. After a few bursts I managed to throw enough in the air to get him.

 

In retrospect the 2000C is a beast on both ends of the spectrum but on either attempts it wasn't too difficult in bringing either types down. Though the MICA (the "MBDA MIca IR") type I was using could use a better warhead, just saying...

[+SidDogg 130]

YEAR: 1986.

 

 

.....NUFF SAID.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[+EricJ 4,246]

Nice SidDogg! Though part of DACT is to evaluate what he's doing and what you're doing, that's what makes this so fun sometimes, you're doing a lot of evaluating on the fly.

 

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 8 x AIM-120 and 2 x AIM-9X and gun

Opposition: MIG-21PFM with GSh-23 and 2 R-13 (older models)

 

Upon taking off the carrier I turned in the direction of the MIG... before I start I will just say that the Wiki combat weight of the PFM is 15,000 pounds and i was at an even 53,000 pounds (that's why they call it the Rhino in case you didn't know). Before the merge the MiG-21PFM decided to shoot me with 23 rounds of gun ammo as i thought I wasn't playing chicken that bad and he couldn't get an angle, well he was angling for me while we past each other in the day. He went high, I went low and pulled vertical (letting the stick go due to blackout) and rolled into him quite easily. In the sense of the word I had an excellent shot and could have taken it but I like to have "fun" with the opposition, it gives me a better feel of the aircraft I'm opposing even though. He managed a circle but he extended as he lost me (the visibility issue of what older MiGs faced). He eventually got me in a horizontal scissors and I managed to stay inside of it (second picture) and he extended. By that time I got tired of playing around and took a shot I would assume even a real nugget could take the shot and get the kill.

 

In retrospect the only thing I have to mention is the weights. At the most I'm over three times the combat weight (100% fuel and gun plus stores) and still rolled into him like it was nothing. Sure the passes are passes but overall like the M2000C it was only too easy to reacquire and engage.

Edited February 26, 2011 by EricJ

[+SidDogg 130]

Nice SidDogg! Though part of DACT is to evaluate what he's doing and what you're doing, that's what makes this so fun sometimes, you're doing a lot of evaluating on the fly.

 

 

Yeah, I know. But the fight ended so quickly

 

For such a blocky and pugnacious-looking aircraft...The F.3 can hold energy very well :yes:

 

No particulars. Just outturn the MiG

 

 

 

[seriously]

 

SidDogg

[+SidDogg 130]

...Alright, you freakin' PEOPLE!!!!!

 

[all this Kitty talk...HA! ]

 

Since nobody wanna do it, I freakin' did it. OKAY?!

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

YEAR: 1986.

 

PLAYER: F-14A + 2 x AIM-9P-1 + M61 20mm x 675. No tanks. [That's right. EFF a faceshot!]

 

OPPONENT: MiG-23MF + 2 x AA-7 + Gsh23L 23mm x 200. No Tanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, needless to say, these aircraft were iconic rivals, and still are today.

 

So it is only proper (AND RIGHT) that they be represented in thread form.

 

So we're behind each other in headed opposite directions at 16,000FT and about 400KTS. I cued up my weapons, switched to boresight, hit the burners, activated ECM and hit a 7G "reversal" turn hard to the left. It wasn't too long before we met each other head-on. He tried gunning at me, but there was too much separation. I had unloaded by the time THAT merge happened, so I hit another "reversal" to the left. he did the same, but apparently failed to maintain his corner speed. The F-14, obviously, turns at its tightest between 350-450KTS. So as I approached these speeds from bleeding off energy, I come around to at least put my nose on him, only to find this freakin guy not gettin with the program. He has me held of at nearly a perfect 90 degrees AOT. So I unload behind him at about 350KTS. Suffice it to say, we've lost about 5,000FT in altitude by now...maybe when he hit his instantaneous turn, he must have overpulled, because he looked like his energy was WAY down. I continued my left turn, once I got to about 450KTS. Just as my nose came around on him again...I caught him leveling off to unload. I managed to put my nose on his tail so I could level my wings and go all out. We're about a minute into the fight. I closed to within 2NM, that took about 10 seconds. My Sidewinder had locked on by then, so I threw it at him. For the first time since the merge, he seemed to have his energy right, because he made a hard turn to the right at the right moment, and straight spoofed it...No countermeasures. So, of course being in full burner still, I just throttle back a bit and follow him through. He had leveled his wings again after about a 90-degree right turn to evade, and I caught him again. This time, I'm much closer, so I fire my last Sidewinder. It hit him above and behind the right wing, just as he tried to reverse back to the left. That's when he started losing speed and going out of control.

 

And I flew past him.

 

I don't think we even broke 10,000FT during that fight.....hmmm. Impressive. :yes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg