SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[+EricJ 3,950]

Me: J-10A with 2 x PL-9C, 2 x R-77, 2 x PiLi-12, gun

Opposition: F/A-18E Super Hornet w/ 2 x AIM-9X, 8 x AIM-120, gun

 

Starting off the Super Bug acted much like the Su-35 in trying to draw me into a scissors and after a few minutes I decided that I'm not going to get anywhere if I stay behind him for a perfect shot, but given the quality of the missiles (I wanted to try out the PiLi-12 honestly) I wasn't too sure and wanted to take my time with the stock bird. I'll only include the highlights because I think it took about ten minutes. I say this because somehow graphically when I went to the debrief screen I couldn't do anything. Not sure what the deal was but whatever, I got it in screenshots. And my screenshots will show the highlights... In any case I got into vertical and horizontal energy scissors quite constantly. And my recommendation is if you're trying to shoot down the Bug then reverse into it but I would advise that the Bug still can corner (without the EPE) quite well and yeah... there's the 9X there too. I found this out as after doing one of many reversals and seeing the tracers whiz by past my canopy. Eventually got into a good firing position and tried a shot with the PL-9C. Yeah it tracked real great but defeated by maneuver and flares. Again repeat circle. I reversed into him again and I tried my second PL-9C, and well shouldn't have as later on I wished I had it but still worked out in the end. So after this he levels off east of LAX and I setup an R-77 launch but he defeats that by maneuver (he was already defensive) and chaff. Great... So I maneuver some more and nearly get a gun solution but he's got too much energy on me to compensate so he flies past. I switch to (eventually) the PiLi-12s and work a radar missile kill. Problem is by that time I was a bit too close with the radar scope covered in the big "X". Eventually he levels off heading east and I lock him up with the PiLi-12 in no escape range. Still had the "X" and deployed my speedbrakes to get him past that, firing my PiLi-12 and exploding him.

 

Takeaways? The stock Super Bug is an even match for the J-10A, but I would hazard that the Super Bug corners much better and therefore when you reverse into him beware of a face shot. At least at close range expect the gun but at a longer distance it wouldn't be hard to work in a 9X shot either. So I would say that it boils down to skill on this one.

[+EricJ 3,950]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X, 3 x AIM-120, 1 x ATFLIR, 3 x tanks, 12 x Mk.82s

Opposition: J-10A with 2 x PL-8, 4 x SD-10/PL-12, gun, center tank.

 

Just wanted to see how this would work out and it worked pretty good. Started behind him but he started with a scissors and I managed to pull out of overshooting by a nanofart. He went westish and entered for some reason a wider circle fight in which despite the weight I pulled into him, using my burner (no way I could have gotten him with mil power as my speed was dropping fast, natch) pulling into him. I selected my 9X and fired with it tracking and blowing him up.

 

Takeaways was that you have to watch your forward motion even when you're bomb truckin it, seriously as inertia I assume is handled well in the game so yes I throttled down... but again based on the maneuverability not power characteristics I was still able to turn into him, though with that load I had to hit the burner earlier as if lighter I could have gotten him with at least mil power or of course less.

[+EricJ 3,950]

Me: F/A-18E with 2 x AIM-9X, 3 x AIM-120, 2 x GBU-31 JDAM, 3 x tanks, gun

opposition: J-10A with 2 x PL-8, 4 x SD-10/PL-12, gun and center tank

 

Much Like when I was the shooter in the J-10A when we finally (after a few minutes) we got into a few energy circles, and on my end the impression was the same as we couldn't get an advantage. I managed to pull my nose into him (harder with all the weight) and fired my first 9X, which went stoopid and missed. After that he started to slow up a bit, starting to get more defensive though this time I managed to turn my nose in better launching my last 9X, exploding him.

 

This one took longer (3 minutes instead of 1 minute and 47 seconds) instead of the Fox because well... the E is slower and therefore I used that to my advantage when I was chasing him. All that weight on my wings was helping that along as well but again after the near overshoot he started to play around. It should be noted that since he was defensive like that all it would have taken was a quick trigger pull... And as well the J-10 likes to do larger energy circles compared to most, which shows the difference in maneuverability of versus these two particular aircraft. The Typhoon has the same configuration but can pull in tighter, and relatively less powerful engines (the J-10 has a Flanker engine) but can match it in the turning fight.

[+EricJ 3,950]

Nice work Slartibatfast! I've never hung around myself if faced with too many odds... they'll be there when they show up

[Slartibartfast 153]

Nice work Slartibatfast! I've never hung around myself if faced with too many odds... they'll be there when they show up

Definitely a time to run and a time to die... I opted for the former... if it had been a pair of one or the other I would have stayed around to try for a double gun kill to earn my spurs...

[+EricJ 3,950]

Personally I like the quote from Goldeneye "The trick is to quit while you're still ahead" always comes to mind...

[Heretic 2]

I stuck to the gun pod since it was requested despite the loadout above as I wouldn't leave the runway with just a gun, just sayin...

 

The gun is a deviation from the standard strike loadout.

 

Normally, you'd load your F-4 with Sparrows, tanks and 18(?) Mk82. Since I can manage my bomb throws really well, I got rid of the centerline bomb rack and substituted it for a Suu-16 for non-building targets and A2A self defense. But being the dirty cheater I am, I also sling four Sidewinders beneath the wings to hunt a few targets of opportunity.

Since all you mostly have during campaign play will be AIM-9Bs and AIM-26s, you *will* see most of your rocket fueled ordonnance go dumb nearly right before impact, which in the end leaves you with guns only to fend off any pursuers.

 

Like you Heretic I'm very inexperienced with dealing with heavy fighters (Okay the Fox and Echo Super Hornets as said get the "Rhino" name due to the fact that they are medium to heavy-weight aircraft but handle like nothing else short of the Polecat or F-31A) so I'm sure some more experienced pilots besides Ceasar (though he could do better of course) could help Heretic out here.

 

It's not that I don't have any heavy fighter experience, it's just that any hint in handling bricks like those 1960s non-interceptors is welcomed to improve my fighting skills. ;)

 

In hindsight I probably should have dropped flaps for low speed maneuverability but not sure if that's really a good idea but of course a more experienced F-4 pilot could say otherwise.

 

I'm usually too fast for flaps, but I'll keep it in mind for the next fight.

 

 

 

In this case against an opponent like this my heartfelt opinion is that if the virtual taxpayers pay to allow you to fire the missiles, use them.

 

As I've said, especially B-winders are no guarantee for an armchair kill at all, rather than a concentration breaker for the other side.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reports!

[Slartibartfast 153]

Okay I will take a look into as well as I like my fights to be knifefights in the phonebooth type... Will have a few runs and then run a brief afterwards but I think it maybe a case of face shooting with a Sparrow and extending to kill his wingman... I will run it as follows 3 Sorties with bombs 3 without bombs all with a Gunpod 2 Sparrows only and see what I get for you... Hopefully have some hints and tips for you Thursday or Friday...

Edited March 21, 2011 by Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast 153]

Okay here's the first one for the F-4D 67 vs the Mig-19S

 

Loadout A-G to begin...

 

F-4D 12 Snakeyes 6 500Lb's SUU-23 Gunpod 2 Aim-7E Jamming pod...

 

Mig-19's Guns baby...

 

Flight Model Hard

Enemy Settings Normal

 

Okay take off to strike a Runway No other Blue forces available flew to the airfield and Red Crown advises bad guys 11 o'clock 15 miles just as I enter by bomb run... 5 miles out from the target manage to lock one Mig-19 but no hope of the great white hope... as he dives for the deck his wingman stays high... I pickle the bombs and kill the runway as the high jet comes down on me... I head for above the cloud layer fast climbed out around 10000ft and moving at the speed of heat... with a both Mig's on my tail and to close for me to do much about it. I decide on staying fast and moving about to keep them away if possible. From then on it was a fight to survive and I was defensive for the entire sortie all 35 minutes of it. The only reason I got home was because I out jinked their guns... They fired everything they had and then ran for home I could not chase as I was down to bingo... fired the 2 Sparrows and both missed...

 

Takeaway from this fight dogfighting even at 70% fuel load and light on weapons is going to be trouble as these guys can and will chase you from here to eternity or until you run out of fuel. Once defensive against a pair of 19's all it becomes is survival I went as high as 25000ft and as low as 300ft and spent most of it jinking if they get on your tail move jink up down left and right do not turn with them as they will get inside of your turn everytime in the F-4D I will admit I didn't have time to get it slow as I was dodging them to much and getting slow would have given them a better firing solution. Best ploy in getting away from them is get fast early.

 

 

 

 

 

Fighting a pair down to them running out of ammo is tough and you use a lot of fuel...

[+EricJ 3,950]

Thanks for the reports!

 

No problem!

 

This may help you in your cause though...

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=F-4+vs%2F+MIG-19&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Slartibartfast 153]

I have the Osprey book F-4 vs Mig-17 / 19... its a great read as well... but the Navy never or rarely packed the gunpod...

 

As to the runaway fest I had well these things happen...

[Heretic 2]

Fighting a pair down to them running out of ammo is tough and you use a lot of fuel...

 

The only real advantage the F-4 has is a lot more ammo and more speed.

 

Since the SF2 is a cheating bastard when it comes to fuel use anyways, I use the "normal" setting for fuel consumption. Makes things kind of easier and a tad more even.

Still doesn't help that much against the magnificence of evilness that the MiG-19 is, though.

 

 

Thanks for the report!

 

 

 

This may help you in your cause though...

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=F-4+vs%2F+MIG-19&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

The big "G"? Maybe.

[+EricJ 3,950]

 

 

The big "G"? Maybe.

 

Huh?

[Heretic 2]

Huh?

 

"Big G" = That soul eating megacorporation slated for world dominance 10, 15 years from now. ;)

[+EricJ 3,950]

okay :)

[+EricJ 3,950]

Like Ceasar I'm on TDY so it'll be a little bit before I get back into the swing of things and get back flying...

[+daddyairplanes 8,739]

take it easy. and bring me back some cheez whiz.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Good luck guys...

 

As to the DACT I will shortly be doing some Vietnam flying and testing... so will post results once I have eburgers superb mod setup on board...

[+EricJ 3,950]

Cool...

[Caesar 305]

Can't wait to read it!

[Slartibartfast 153]

So anyone got any proposed loadouts plan is to be as realistic as possible drop tanks bombs etc... I am going to even go for A-1 vs all the Migs...

[Icarus999 70]

The only real advantage the F-4 has is a lot more ammo and more speed.

 

Since the SF2 is a cheating bastard when it comes to fuel use anyways, I use the "normal" setting for fuel consumption. Makes things kind of easier and a tad more even.

Still doesn't help that much against the magnificence of evilness that the MiG-19 is, though.

 

 

Thanks for the report!

 

 

 

 

 

The big "G"? Maybe.

 

 

1-The F-4 had much more speed and much more power. 2- Give that phantom a slatted wing and things get much better for you. On the F-4 a gun is there as a weapon of opportunity, if the shot is there you take it, if its not you use your primary weapons. If you take away the f-4's primary weapons you have hobbled it and if you then you use it with only the cannon in anything other than a zoom and boom vertical fight against a MIG-19 you are asking for trouble Also remember that TK's migs are way over modeled when it comes to power and ability to fight in the vertical. The MiG- 19 is a tough customer... and must be respected but in real life and with skilled pilots it did not dominate the phantom in the way you describe.

[+EricJ 3,950]

Good points but we're dealing with the game MiG-19 vs. the real one and therefore our evaluations, tactics revolve around that, not the real plane.

[+daddyairplanes 8,739]

very true, given that if presented the chance from the TW politicians, most crews will shoot the migs a$$ off at maximum Sparrow or Slammer range and not dogfight!

then again im thinkin along the lines that fighters make movies, while bombers make history!

[Heretic 2]

The campaign pitted my flight of F-4Ds against MiG-19s yesterday.

 

Observation: If you really want to get rid of Farmers, Sparrow 'em! There is no other way.

 

My flight of four encoutered two Farmers on a CAP mission. While Farmer #1 largely ignored my flight (possibly for a C-130 flying in the area that provided a better target), Farmer #2 went for it and came straight at us. I got the lead with an AIM-7 which was easy enough, but MiG #2 was a real PITA.

 

In a 2 vs 1 fight (my and three's wingie just didn't seem to be in a fighting mood), we did nearly everything to get the buggar. Two more Sparrows refused to track, so I've tried to get up close for some SUU-16 and AIM-9 love to no avail. His turns were too sharp and the reversals too quick to stay within the firing envelope of both weapons. My number three also spent all of his IR ordonnance on this guy, but somehow managed to get a lucky hit on his wingtip with the cannon. I hthen started to extend out a bit, which brought it into Sparrow range. My last AIM-7 fortunately homed in, otherwise I'd have broken off the fight an buggered out.

 

So just to reinforce the opinion about the MiG-19:

Fight it like you would fight a wild animal...do not let it get close and use your rifle to keep it from biting.

If this doesn't work: Run! Run, run, run!

Edited April 3, 2011 by Heretic