SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[saisran 84]

Nice flying! I have always found those small nible buggers to be the most difficult ones to aim with. In fact the more responsible a jet, the harder time i have articulating it :))))

 

Meanwhile, i found my match in the world of AI controlled jets

Not that he outflew me or shot me (i am consistently on his 6), but in 3 engagements one after another i manage to win either by i high deflection shot or by the thing running out of fuel and switching out of burner. Me being an F-14A and the bandit being a Mirage-2000. The thing can turn, the thing can accelerate and the thing is very small. If it wasn't for the blackouts, i think i could consistantly nail it above 400KIAS, as it doesn't sustian a turn all that well above 360-380KIAS. But i do blackout and the AI doesn't, not even when stuck in a continous highest performance turn until it runs out of fuel

 

I may have to try some more decisive vertical maneuvers, but with the rate this little nasites accelerate, that might be head-on waiting to happen. A head-on against a smaller more nimble plane? I think i'll skip it. Dropping the flaps and going bellow 300KIAS in a bat turn might work, but it will be a gamble. If i miss he can just pop from 250 to 360KIAS in few seconds....or less, and go vertical on me while i am in a poor energy state. Heaters will get him cause i often get the angle, i just can't maintain a nose on long enough for a gun shot, but if i give him missiles as well, his performance would drop anyways. I preffer to keep the fight fair and as hard as possible.

 

Have you tried going guns only against a M2000? What are your tips?

 

Tr

 

 

I havent been in a gun fight against the mirage 2000 but i did however however fought the Mirage 5 in a TW F-14A. When the fight got low and slow the F-14 As flaps enabled the tocat to maintain nose on the mirage even if it was flying at around 300KIAS. The 2000s performance would probably be a lot better and resembles the gripens performance much more. if that's the case in a guns only fight. the flaps are your best choice as the tomcat can do size defying split s with full flaps and some throttling.   

 

As for the AI not blocking out, I am sometimes tempted to set the player balckout option to easy. Hehe. AI's a cheat! haha.

[saisran 84]

Yesterday's Last Mission before going to bed which ended with me running out of cannon shells. My excuse - i was already very tired and sleepy. Haha. 

 

Jas-39C vs F-15 Baz. 

 

[Caesar 305]

I actually flew against the Mirage 2000 guns only about a week ago.  Big difference is that I was flying the F-14B rather than the A; more thrust to play with!  Usually, I don't try to turn with the Mirage 2000, because it becomes parity in a nose-low one-turn circle until we get to the deck, then you're forced to try some vertical presses, since its still parity, and eventually, the AI runs into the ground or runs out of gas.  If you can force a vertical fight early on, you aren't as likely to get down to the deck, and you're more likely able to drive the fight slow(er).  The AI doesn't do so hot at lower airspeeds.

[saisran 84]

I actually flew against the Mirage 2000 guns only about a week ago.  Big difference is that I was flying the F-14B rather than the A; more thrust to play with!  Usually, I don't try to turn with the Mirage 2000, because it becomes parity in a nose-low one-turn circle until we get to the deck, then you're forced to try some vertical presses, since its still parity, and eventually, the AI runs into the ground or runs out of gas.  If you can force a vertical fight early on, you aren't as likely to get down to the deck, and you're more likely able to drive the fight slow(er).  The AI doesn't do so hot at lower airspeeds.

 

Great Tip Ceasar. Will try the same when it take the Tomcat against the Gripen.

 

 

 

Vid's a 1v1 Gripen VS Netz. 

 

[Kyot54 2]

I just tried the F-18E/F. It felt proper for the most part when i flew against F-16 and MiG-29. A bit more sluggish in the transonic but more authority in the low subsonic. However when i flew against it i noticed something weird. I was in an F-14A right on its tail when he went vertical. And i mean right up, around 90 degrees. He started climbing at around 340KIAS while i was around 400. I decided not to shoot him as i suspected that by now we both had effective T/W bigger then 1 and that i would catch up with him, cause he started at a lower energy state. We went all the way up to 43000ft when i stalled out at aeound 140-160KIAS and had to level. He was around 93KIAS and i expected him to level off soon as well........ but he didn't. He kept  his nose high and before you know it he shot for 62000ft and still climbing. The best i could do was follow him up to 57000ft in a supersonic climb but then i just gave up as my plane would not go any higher. So i decided to try this myself. I took the Super Hornet and flew against the MiG29, flew a bit with him, shot him down to expend some fuel (of which you BTW have more then 30000lbs) and then went streight up. I hit the ceeling at around 24-25000ft at 120KIAS, but instead of leveling off, i pulled back on the stick and stuck the nose up 30 degrees. Airpseed was at 96KIAS and i continued climbing all the way up to 57000ft. Then i leveled off went to mach 1.04 and pulled gently back, getting the nose up some 15-20 degrees....and....voila.... i saw stars! 63000ft and climbing, mach 1.06 and accelerating. This bird seams a bit overmoded. Maybe the thrust has been increased to match those 30000lbs of internal fuel? Or maybe the fact that the plane would not stall, means that it will continue to go up as long as there is thrust?

 

I've mentioned this on another thread, and admittedly haven't checked for a reply: the Super Hornet Blocks I and II download is off. I don't know whether this was by design or not. I've fixed my to where it carries the appropriate fuel load, but I haven't checked the thrust. I can say it made a difference when I took a Tomcat vs Super Bug 1 v 1. Before the fix it was over, quick! After, I was still able to take the Bug down, but it required a bit more effort. It was noticeable how weighed down it was with all the gas, so I don't think the thrust has been adjusted, but I could be wrong. I would like to know about E/F (EPE) downloads or settings, that would be interesting having a better T-W ratio. I don't fly the bug a lot, but when I do I tend to keep it out of the pure vertical arena.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kyot54

[saisran 84]

Tried a DACT earlier,  F-14 Vs Jas-39. i forgot to run the video capture program so i was only able to get some screenshots and i wasn't able to get a lot of screens as i was too busy blacking out. I tried to make the fight real however the gripen wont cooperate and kept doing some crazy cheat turning that i managed to break the wings of an F-16C during yesterdays DACT Attempt. Both wings and tail elevators broke when i followed the gripen from a transonic left hand turn and shooting up in a straight vertical. So now its the tomcat's turn on fighting the gripen.

 

5 km off the lright wing the gripen started turning. I punched the Tomcats engine to full at onset of the game to gain as much speed as i can. I went vertical, he kept a right hand turn while maintaining a speed of M 0.9+. When i looped my nose back down maintaing a speed of above 300 Kias. The gripen is on the way up.  I came to the bottom of my loop and regained more energy than when i started. The gripen is on the top of his loop at 200 Kias so i climbed up tring to meet himd. however from 200 KIAs he immediately regained all his energy in the  short period he was on the dive and what happened next was a couple more of a vertical circles. Tried some more variatons with our vertical circles changing angles to mix in the horizontal plane but each time the gripen has managed to match and i trow at him and even managed to fire a couple of wild snapshots that would never  connect. Still those shots send a message;  won't get anywhere close to the gripen playing this game.  so i pulled into the vertical and climbed as high as i can gradually inverting the tomcat until i was at 250 KIAS. Pulled on the stick a bit more and engaged half flaps. i found the gripen below on his climbed. I rolled the tom to his direction and turned. we ended up with him above me and turning left and nose low. I pulled and hit the burners. The tomcat took a tighter turn but the grippen is speeding away. i engaged full flaps and eased on the stick. with full flaps on the tomcat managed a 250 KIAS turn that matched the gripen turn. i loosen the stick some more and i was able to match the gripens speed and turn at around 300 to 380Kias. The gripen will then switch from going really fast in a turn or going really slow. each time i tried to match the gripens turn with either a throttle manipulation or a tighter pull on the stick. Several times i almost ended with a near gun solution but the gripen either managed to make a tighter turn or my pilot blacks out. This was a really frustrating fight so i decided to play the tomcats strength. and fly slow and low. After some more frustrating attmept of getting a nose solution by swinging the nose with the rudder i managed to get enough energy to get a bit vertical and pulled a very tight almost Split S. Full Flaps, Air brakes on and Engine to full. This manouver put me right behind the Gripen but hes 1NM miles away and being such a small plane the shot attempt was futile he leveled out and i thought he is going to reverse his turn but he just kept level and accelerated and in an instant he was 2NM miles away. i gave chase but this is all i can managed.

 

 

I was about to give up but the gripen pilot changed his mind and Turned back and went for a game of chicken. Me being a big bulky plane with him being a stick, i declined. swung a bit to the left and went to the vertical. the gripen followed me and we both reached the crest at the same time. on the way down i engaged full flaps and brakes. the gripen passed my nose. rolled my plane in his direction retracted the brakes and followed. i was finally in a bit of ( i guess its what you guys call a lag pursuit) directly on his six. I grabbed on with everything i got trying to match his turn in every direction. going nose low as to be able to turn faster and tighter and raising my nose high to bleed off excess energy. Using the brakes to add a bit more jerk in the turn. I know the tomcat wont spin or stall even if i get rough with is so i did just that. Suddenly the tomcat started to trn more sharper than the gripen and the response ever so quicker. So brakes off and burners to full.

 

 

and in a 500 KIAS turn my Piper is 2 notch above his turn. I angled and i prayed. trigger down. No luck. I felt that i wont be getting any better shot than this. Trigger down, Trigger down. On the Fitth attempt i pulled the trigger and added a bit of rudder.

 

 

it was really the only chance i would get as 3 second after this my engine gave out. My Tomcat gave it all. In my heart she is the prettiest fighter plane around and in the face of a tough adversary she worked hard. gave it all and triumphed.

 

But the victory will be hollowed if i punched out and allowed her to crash on her own. I looked on the map and found that we are near a friendly base. So i glided her in.

 

 

it was rough but she took me home safe and sound. In the virtual world and im sure in a the real world as well. nothing is more special than a partner who you can trust your life to. That settles it. I'm still madly in love with the F-14 Tomcat!

 

ANYTIME! BABY!

Edited September 8, 2014 by saisran

[Do335 382]

hey a hard earned victory dude, well done.. (v)beer in bound!

[saisran 84]

hey a hard earned victory dude, well done.. (v)beer in bound!

 

Thanks for the beer! haha.

 

This one's a quickie a reward for the F-14B before i go to bed.

 

F-14B Vs Su-27SK

 

Spot the Bandit, his turn we follow

Hold the Stick, and let it get slow

Drop the flaps ,and feel the flow

Another notch, and were in tow

Trigger Down, Trigger down

And down goes that swallow

Then Look at the pretty picture 

Towards home in the shallows

 

(a silly attempt at poetry)

 

[cougar_1979 37]

That was some intense flying Saisran! And you have a way with words!

I actually flew against the Mirage 2000 guns only about a week ago.  Big difference is that I was flying the F-14B rather than the A; more thrust to play with!  Usually, I don't try to turn with the Mirage 2000, because it becomes parity in a nose-low one-turn circle until we get to the deck, then you're forced to try some vertical presses, since its still parity, and eventually, the AI runs into the ground or runs out of gas.  If you can force a vertical fight early on, you aren't as likely to get down to the deck, and you're more likely able to drive the fight slow(er).  The AI doesn't do so hot at lower airspeeds.

Caesar, did several engagements today. 3 major strategies were tested. First i went for the vertical press. In an F-14A i just turned out to be a bad idea. Even with 50-100 knots on him, the little bugger can still recover energy fast enough, to meet any vertical oblique or vertical turn i can make, and similar to flying against a 29 or 16, there is no yo-yo you can pull the bandit can't counter by just pointing the nose at you and go up. He just has too much thrust. At the very best i can fly him to the ground, but than can be done bt going bellow 250 anyways.

The second apporach was just that. Trying to get him bellow 300. Get him in a high bleed turn and then just pull until you are right at him. Unfortunately in  the F-14A the window of opportunity you have to shoot at him is less then 10s before the thing unloads and regains energy to either turn on you or go up. In the 3 separate attempts i only managed one kill this way. I am just not precise enough to get him in such a short time.

The thirds strategy was to stay fast. Above 380 or even above 400. In a way like i would fly a Hornet. Build and release the energy for position. I tried to work out the inherit blackouts by flying almost constant lag pursuit, untill he stated bleeding/breaking. Then i would pull on him at best sustained turn i could muster at 380-420KIAS. Got a good nose-on a few times, but as soon as i did, the would tighten his turn and i had to follow.....which as you may guess, leads to another blackout on my part. This repeated several times with similar outcome, me blacking out before i could get a good lead. The only benefit i got by flying fast was that he actually went through his fuel faster (or gave up faster) and i could catch him abd shoot him without burner with 5500-6500lbs of my own fuel remaining. Previously i usually got to around 4500lbs mark.

Finally on the last flight, i tried to combine methods 2 and 3. The thing is, i noticed that as i start gaining nose-on during my high energy turn, he would increase banking angle in order tu pull ever tighter. This made him turn in a nearly 90deg bank, turning literally across the horizon. So as his plane of motion is relatively constant all i needed to know was his vector, or where he would be at the moment i need to shoot on only one axis. So started the porcedure as usual, pulling lag at 450-500KIAS. He was around 450-460 but was bleeding faster win the turn, despite the fact i was cathing on with his rate. At the moment i saw his wings go perpendicular to the horizon and condensation forming along his flight path, i alligned my vector with his vector and started pulling hard, near to the limit of 25 units. I started blacking out as usual. but the lead i pulled was supstantial and i still had enough awareness to put the piper in a paralel motion to the bandit. I estimated where he was going to be, gave him a 1/2-1s burst and boom he went at 0.4nm from me, 360-380kIAS, while i was still at 420-425KIAS, 11000+lbs fuel to spare.

No video or pics of this flight as i simply did not expect itto last that short. All the previous flights were in the 20 minutes (or more) range. But i will continue to work on the procedure. If i can repeat it often enough i'll make sure to record it

Cheers and safe flying mates!

[Caesar 305]

Well, I took up an F-14A against the Mirage 2000C; it took about twice as long as in the F-14B (about 2-3 minutes for the B, 6 for the A).

 

F-14A Tomcat: 75% internal fuel, gun

Mirage 2000C: 100% internal fuel, gun

 

Fight started with the F-14A achieving tally first and boresighting the Mirage 2000C.  The Mirage 2000C turned into the F-14A and attempting to go for a head-on gun run.  The F-14 noses low to force angle-off and at the merge, pulls into a hard vertical loop.  The Mirage 2000C performs a hard left turn as the F-14 comes down from the loop.  As the F-14 attempts to get lead, it takes a snap shot at the 2000C, but misses, and the 2000C pulls into an arcing left-hand turn, while the F-14 continues back up into another loop.

 

 

 

The 2000C finishes its turn and is behind the F-14, but far too close as the F-14 has its flaps down and the 2000C overshoots, and the F-14 comes back up again, this time at an angle to the 2000C.  Continuing to loop, the Mirage reverses its turn as the F-14 begins to climb, and pulls hard into the vertical in an attempt to take a snap shot at the F-14.  The angles don't work for the 2000C, and the aircraft pass, but the 2000C has burned so much of its energy that it must perform stall recovery.

 

 

The F-14 takes this moment to rebuild some of its own energy, knowing it can't immediately capitalize on the 2000C.  Both aircraft turn into each other, and as they pass, the 2000C takes three snap shots at the F-14, but none connect (the F-14 does not have to maneuver evasively, either).  The two aircraft turn into each other forming the parity one-circle, with the F-14 sustaining a tight, slow circle and the 2000C sustaining a wide high-g circle.  The F-14 tries for its first vertical press, but the 2000C pulls into it, with the two aircraft passing by.

 

 

Parity circle continues, F-14 at about 10800lbs fuel to the Mirage at about 4000lbs.  The F-14 tries another vertical press with similar results, but the pull-out altitude is getting higher.  Third vertical press, and the Mirage attempts to hot-nose the F-14, but again misses.  This time, the F-14 continues nose-low and turns into the Mirage, having enough altitude to do so.  As the parity circle inevitably begins reforming, the F-14 eases off on the g in an effort to accelerate.  The F-14 is only sustaining about 3g as its energy rebuilds, then 5 as it passes 320KIAS, and the Mirage takes the opportunity to attempt an attack.  The F-14, however, has built to just over 380 knots as the Mirage does its hard pull, and as it attempts another set of snap shots, the F-14 loads about a 9-10g turn into the Mirage, both ruining its firing solution and also causing it to overshoot.  The F-14 pulls into the vertical, rolling on its back, and then ruddering over to get high and above the 2000C's tail, and uses gravity to keep the nose on until getting into the 2000C's plane of turn.  Because both pulls were so harsh, both aircraft are very low on energy.  The F-14 gets a boresight lock on the Mirage 2000C, and achieving lead in a very high angle-off shot (over 21 units AoA), saws off the 2000C's left wing and tail.  Knock it off at 6 minutes, 16 seconds and 9600lbs of fuel to spare.

 

 

Yep, the Mirage 2000C is a royal pain in the ass sometimes, but its tendency to get low and small internal fuel supply are some of its major LIMFACs.   I kept going for vertical presses because I wanted to gun the guy, but in the back of my mind early on in the parity one-circle I was thinking to myself: "well, I could just sit here for another six minutes and he'll run outta' gas."  The F-14B, on the other hand, has much more thrust, better acceleration, and it's easier to fight the nimble little 2000C with the big engined Turkey Beast.

[saisran 84]

A high angle off shot... at my current gunnery skills, this for me is only possible with luck.

 

Great flying as always Caesar.i got a lot of takeaways from your fight. :)

[saisran 84]

My flight of four F-14A+ tomcat got outnumbered by 8 Su-27 with an intercept load while me and my wingmen only have our winders with us after we intercepted the bomber units. Needless to say we all got shot down. The AI's on those flankers weren't stingy in letting us have a look on their R-27s (both AHM and IRM) and since i tweaked them to be more effective my flight including myself was destroyed.

 

Therefore revenge: Himalayas Map: F-14A+ vs Su-27 guns only. 

 

found him on radar flying over mountains. Due to the number of DACTS i played since becoming a bit more active on this thread, the flanker was no longer a problem even when using the TW F-14s FM Model. Got rid of him pretty quickly so i was left alone to admire such a great map. This map is really fun to fly in. Thanks to major Lee building it and to Wrench getting it up to SF2 Standards. 

 

[cougar_1979 37]

Fast thinking there, bringing the Cat on her back like that Ceasar!

I was flying several hops last night (F-14A VS M2000), but as was experimenting (as usual) i didn't record any of them. most of them were over 15 minutes long anyway. One wasn't though and it was particulary interesting. As in all the examples of this training mission, we started level at angels 15, 15nm away from each other, on our respective 9 'o clocks. Guns only, 100% internal fuel tanks. As we closed the merge i decided to abandon the usual wide separation approach (follwed by nose on tail chace) and go for a somewhat risky heads on, very close to the bogey and merge with him going slightly above me. As soon as i got a tally on the bandit (Mirage 2000C, adversary markings) i made a shallow dive abd wound up some 2-300ft beneath him. As we crossed he made a hard jink thowards me and i insinctively went up. The bandit then went nose high and followed me in the vertical. At the end of the climb we both wound up above 20000ft and having manahged my energy better i had around 300KIAS on me, while he was probaby around 250 or bellow. I moved my nose on him and never let him recover energy. Being above 20000ft didn't help him much either. Soon i was all on his 6, and gunned him down. The mirage doesn't seam to like being above angels 20. I will have to work on this in following hops.

And now for the encounter i did record, which was what i was wokring on the most. F-14A VS Mirage 2000C, guns only, distance 15nm, level at angels 15. As mentioned in previous posts, my goal was building up energy and using it in short surges to get a gun firing solution before i black out. To achieve this, i used the F-14's second "hump" (or peak if you prefer) in the level envelope. (For those that had no chance to study the flight envelope of the F-14A- unlike most planes that have a singular peak, or in modern cases plateau of tunring rate, that is an area if air speeds at which they have a best turning rate, the Tomcat has 2 when flown with the wings and maneuvering devices controlled by the FC. The first is around 330-360KIAS and the second around 400-450. These humps are most pronounced on low altitudes 0-7000ft and at high altitudes and high mach numbers above 20000ft, when the second hump is basicly supersonic. Courtesy of flying a swing wing fighter.) 

My strategy; use the second hump to fly wide pursuit and bleed the extra energy on a lead shot until i reach the first hump. Advantage, always stay high on energy and defendable. Trade-off, even more pronounced blackout management issues.
Starting off as usualy. Banking into the bogey for a wide separation initial pass. Acquiring a visual on the target at about 3nm. Rolling into the bandit and starting a high g turn as we pass each other. I wind up with a slight angular advantage (some 20 degrees and 380KIAS) after the first pass and continue the press the attack while riding the second peak. By the end of the first circle i on behind him and he starts his high g breaking pattern, but we are still too far away for me to try and move in for a shot. By time index 3:00 he is into the saddle and    burning across the sky at 340-380KIAS giving the best he has. I unload and buld my enrgy for the first attack, however i misjudge his lift vector and wind up with the bandit zipping acorss my HUD and me unloading to regain energy. I lose some patience and try to rush the second attack almost immediately after that, but the radar does not lock him up so i have to let him go again. We both recover energy (this is the time when if i was flying with hte loose deuce he would take over the attack and not let the bandit recover) and it's back to square one. Time index 5:20, the first of the high g blackouts. You get these alot and doing an 8G sustained turn at 460KIAS. But i do get a nose one. However the radar still won't lock! I try to make the next attack at lower speed and this time i do get a lock but i can't get enough lead. 7:26 Set up for another attack, buti don't estimate the turning plane right once again. Still pressing on and staying fast at over 420KIAS. Needless to say, black out begore before i can have a good shot (though this time i have both lock and vector right). One thing i do manage to get right is keep him defensive at all times. When i reviewed the recording later on, i noticed that while i kept my speed at 360KIAS and above (except for short excursions of 1-3s to maintain positional advantage) with every turn he lost more and more of his. Thus he never quite recovered enough to extend the fight indefinitely. Just when it seams he would regain  energy i go for another attack as i keep my speed advantage almost constant. At 9:42 he breakes again and i fail to get a good lead, but i press again as he tries to level off and unload. He has to break a second time and loses all the energy he gained while i am ove 420KIAS. I bleed off until he is right itno my gunsight. 1/2 a mile ahead of me. I have a good lock, pull lead and hose him with a high deflection shot which connects at what seams to be almost a colision corse! I unload at 380KIAS and setup for another attack. The bandit is floating up against the clear blue sky harmlessly. It would seam  that previous shot has crippled him. One more shot and his blown out...... Mission acomplished and still with over 8000lbs of fuel. 

It took 4 separate attempts by the strategy worked. Keep you energy high, make him bleed, press the attack, maintain the initiative. This would work better with a wingman, but it can be done when 1-1 as well. Next goal-try to go nose on nose chace after the first pass, or try so tricks to get him above angels 20.

[cougar_1979 37]

Sorry to double post again, i didn't plan to log in again tonight. But....i was flying some missile variations of the above mentioned hop (as expected the engagements are far shorter when you need no more then 1-2s to gain a good firying solution) when just for the laughs, i decided to try the F-14A+ instead of the F-14A. Now, i have never flown a GE powered Cat in anger before....but....OH MY GOD! 3 out of 4 fights ended in just one turn! One turn i tell you. I should have recorded at least some of the sorties. One circle, nose one, fire a Mike or two, and by the time the bandit was a fireball, i am supersonic again. I mean.... the thing can actually supercruise! The 4th fight was somewhat longer as all 4 winders failed so i had to gun him down..... but the extra power, man, i'll get spoiled if i fly this bird too often. Then i did 3 guns only. Not as easy kills as the heaters, but still, you no longer worry about bleeding too much. This bird can susutain a turn at corner velocity for crying out loud. In the second hop i even burned out the engines like Saisran did. Was this really possible IRL? It has jever happened to me before in a PW powered Cat. I start to feel sorry for the poor Mirage

Anyways, good night everyone, enough of me bantering about how amazed i am of the bird

[Caesar 305]

Good reports, cougar!

 

And yes, if you run the GE's for too long in Zone 3 (or really any aircraft's engine in max AB for too long), they can burn through their afterburner section.  Two F-14B's were actually lost this way catastrophically in the early 1990's.  I want to say a single F-16 also.  In-game, it can happen as well, especially when you over-speed the aircraft.  In the F-14A+/B and D this happens a lot more than in the A due to higher thrust and better acceleration.

 

EDIT:

 

Cougar, the F-14B/D could break the sound barrier in dry thrust if it were clean or lightly loaded, around 1.1M in level flight, 1.2M nose slightly low.  While this is technically 'supercruise' it isn't 1.3-1.4 like the F-22.  We gave it 1.03M because I don't think the stores drag values are quite high enough, and didn't want the bird to supercruise with bombs or Phoenix on board.

[saisran 84]

Nice reading guys! Taking a mental note of the two Humps of the F-14. :)

[cougar_1979 37]

Good reports, cougar!

 

And yes, if you run the GE's for too long in Zone 3 (or really any aircraft's engine in max AB for too long), they can burn through their afterburner section.  Two F-14B's were actually lost this way catastrophically in the early 1990's.  I want to say a single F-16 also.  In-game, it can happen as well, especially when you over-speed the aircraft.  In the F-14A+/B and D this happens a lot more than in the A due to higher thrust and better acceleration.

 

EDIT:

 

Cougar, the F-14B/D could break the sound barrier in dry thrust if it were clean or lightly loaded, around 1.1M in level flight, 1.2M nose slightly low.  While this is technically 'supercruise' it isn't 1.3-1.4 like the F-22.  We gave it 1.03M because I don't think the stores drag values are quite high enough, and didn't want the bird to supercruise with bombs or Phoenix on board.

 

Thanks for that info! Have you moded the speed restriction as well? If i recall the inlet ramps were scheduled for mach 1.88 in order so save on maintenence time, while the unrestricted bird could easily go beyond mach 2.3

Nice reading guys! Taking a mental note of the two Humps of the F-14. :)

I always pays off to know  your ride's performance numbers well.....it pays even better to know the enemy ones :)

 

I have 2 version of the same hop today. They are from last night. After shooting bandits one on one with guns i decided to take on some more diversive approach. This misison is a mid 70's ACM training exercise. 2 AC, multiple bogies (F-5's). The loads are all WVR, rear aspect Hotel Winders and guns. The goal is to intercept and identify the bogies, then engage if hostile. I try to make the mission more challenging by flying in F2 view and using the instrument panel to check on my speed and alpha. Having a small screen does not help though. Shooting a gun at moving dot is not easy. I can't descern it's wing orientation and estimate lead. The enemy skill level on expert (as usual, though this time they are supposed to represent adversary pilots).

 

The hop starts 15nm away from the contacts. We fly pure puruit on them when the Hawkeye/GCI calls bandits on the contacts. I go zone5 to gain some speed and altitude and check on my wingman. Maneuvering to put them on my left side and trying to stay as wide as possible so i can keep my eyes on them for as long as possible before we merge. This way i hope to spot any possible trailers that decide to stay back and come on our six after we turn on the lead element. There are 3 bandits, closing at over 900knots as we pass each other. I send my no2 on the widest circling bandit, hoping he can get a clear shot (a label him no1) in the least time possible, while i go for the next one (no2). At 3:01 i think i have a good tone and go for my first FOX2. It looks like it will track, but it ends up a dud. 2nd FOX2 follows suit and i beging to think the aspect may be too large for the Hotel to handle. FOX3 doesn't even begin to guide when i hear "missile inbound" at which point i start kicking flares. Pulling some more lead and as we both break even slower it's FOX2 again. This one finally conects, splash one and i am out of missiles. Diving immediately to recover some energy as i have a feeling no3 is on me by now (hence that missile inbound before). Just as i do i hear another missile warning and i kick some more flares as i pull up. And there it was, a missile trail zipping on my 11 'o clock high. I get a tally on the bandit, go after him and make the first great mistake of this flight. I tell my wingman to go after him as wll. My logic at the time was that we guns only it will take me too long to down the bandit. In turn what i did, was lost sight of no2 and let him come back on our backs to bite us. Wingman goes FOX2 two times. First is a dud, and the second misses. Just then i get a call for "bandit on my six" and missile inbound. I assume i am the target and drop flares and go evasive. My second great mistake, as the next thing i hear is my wingman going down in flames. It would help if my RIO and wingman had diferent voice actors. And if they were making accurate radio calls. Like Cowboy#2 , #1 you have a bandit on your tail, he's going for a shot. And it would help if the RIO was always calling altitude, air speed and bandit/bogy position, closure. Alasm it was not to be. Now i am alone with no missiles and 2 bandits on me. At least the one on my six has no missiles as well. So i must not lose sight of the one i'm tracking. I go into an aggresive vertical maneuver and come on top of the #3. Turning against the F-5 at low speeds seams perilous. And is it me, or are these 74 Tomcats, jumpy on the controls? They seam more temperamental then the 80 version. He goes up though, and so im i. Taking a wide displacment roll at first, bit it is not enough to get an angle so i go into a high Yo-Yo. This puts me in a wide lag behind him, so go for another high Yo-Yo, this time almost an Imelman. Another wide hook and i'm finally behind him. Rolling out high for a better angle when i see tracers on my rear view mirror. #1 is on me. I'll need to end this fast. 2 high g turns and one near black out and i am in a firing psotion. He wants to bate me in scissors by i am not bying it. Going up in another Yo-Yo and then one more when i see the tracers again, this time much closer on my 7 'o clock low. I do a rolling reversal and drop right behind #3, but unfortunatly my radar won't lock! Another rolling reversal and again no lock! The heck with it, i'll go and shoot by eye. Guns....Guns-Guns-Guns and splash bandit 2. #3 is down so i have only #1 to deal with now. Going vertical to get a good look on my six, when there he is! Fyring tracers on my 3 'o clock! Rolling the cat on her back, then then roling after him, diving in the process. He goes up. I check my instruments. Air speed is good. I can follow. 1 and 1/2 vertical circles and i am in a lag pursuit, he being at my 10. Time to move in for the kill. Shallow dive to build up some energy, followed by a displacement roll and i am on his 6. Guns! Guns-Guns! Guns! Nothing. I can't estimate his vectror well. Guns follewd by an overshoot at which point i go into another high Yo-Yo. Not taking any chances this time, i switch to F1, Guns.....Guns.....Guns and it's splash 3! He must have hit bingo fuel as he was flying a virtually streight line.....Knock it off, head back to base.....

 

This report took longer then expected, so i'll post the second one later. Here is the video

[cougar_1979 37]

So here is the 2nd one, same setup as before, only this time we don't get a bandit call, so we had to ID them visually. I try be more careful this time. At 4 miles they turn into us and we let them fly between and above. Visual confirmation, 3 F-5s. I set my eyes on #3 and make a wide right hand turn after him. calling my wingman to attack. As we turn into him i notice the entire flight on our right. We  are doing 4 more turns managing to keep the bandits boxed on the inside of our turns. I pull some lead, get a good tone and fire FOX2.... the missile fails to hit . He dives so i go after him. At the bottom of the dive i put another FOX2 into him and it's another miss! Pulling some more and getting off another FOX2, but by this time he has already gotten enough lateral separation for the missile to have a chance.  As we go for yet another right turn i notice how #3 extends while #1 peels off in a hard right break. I figure my wingman can take care of #3 now, so i am going for #1 as i don't want him to turn back and sneak on our tails as was the case in the previous hop. A few seconds after that i hear my wingman calling guns and shooting down the target. The numbers are now even. Going into a shallow dive, pulling up on the bandit and seing him on the clear blue sky i figure this would make a perfect FOX2 opportunity. No such luck....another miss, switching to guns. I have a boresight lock, pulling some lead, guns guns guns and splash 2. #1 is down for the count. That only leaves #2 to deal with but we have no joy on him. So i switch the radar to search mode and call for some GCI/HAWKEYE support. Fortunately GC finds him on our 8 'o clock. Looks like he decided to call it a day and bug out. I think my wingman has still some missiles left and send him after the bandit, with me flying support.   My wingman goes full burner and is soon upon him. Turns out he is out of missiles as well and goes guns on him.....for splash 3. Mission acomplished :)

Lesson learned.... i need much more practice with rear aspect heaters :)

[macelena 1,070]

As the Tomcat is underrepresented here...i did a new what if dogfight moments ago. 4x RSAF Lightning F.53 vs 2x IRIAF F-14A, both TW models, full load. We spawned about 18 miles apart, and a second later i had a missile warning (radio, no RWR in the Lightning) so i dove and beamed to rooftop level (over a large Dhimari coastal city, not sure wich). As i raced into the ground clutter, i ordered my flight to break. After that, having evaded several missiles, i was doing Mach 1.1 with the 2nd element following me, but my no2 had strayed to the left several miles and got downed by some long range missile. 

 

We merged above the docks and in the following furball, i felt weirdly confident with the Lightning. Has some issues with hard maneuvering at high speed, but the acceleration is still quite up to what i needed. The AI pilots tended to turn horizontally and my flight had soon depleted their energy, with the Tomcats easily positioning themselves in their tails at speeds of around 200 knots. Using my speed, wich i had kept almost at double of that, i dove into one wich was turning to leave me his 6 while chasing one of my flightmates, and i manage to shoot it down with 30mm cannon fire just late enough for it to fire a Sidewinder wich killed the other Lightning. The other one had also shot down his Lightning, and was above me, but i had his 6 and more speed. As i closed in, i locked with radar and shot two Red Tops pushing their envelope. Both guided, and while the first went for the flares, the second one hit the last Tomcat. It was quite awesome, but i don´t think i could do it again.

[+daddyairplanes 10,248]

Good job killing the Tom with Lightnings! One Tom quite frankly was worth your whole flight, tho not good to lose your wingmen however retarded they all like to act.

[cougar_1979 37]

Must have been one hell of a fight!

I noticed the AI likes to keep it 2D, and will seldom engage in another plane unless you initiate it yourself. What i found the most odd was when opserving how a fight eveloves after i get shot. When i was flying a Bug against the F-14A, guns only, neutral at the merge, the thing actually went complete 3 circles at 350-360KIAS, and it was only at the 4th circle when he cornered and bled out (which as usual costs him his life). However, if i die first in my flight of 2-4 Tomcats, they are very quick to get them selves stuck. Usually only after only one turn. Maybe it's the loadout? When i fly many VS many, i usually bring along at least 4 heaters. While my one on one are usually guns only. So. maybe the AI has trouble flying with externals? Or is it only the big planes that it finds difficult to manage? Those M2000's gave me quite the trouble :))

[saisran 84]

As discussed here in the thread before with Ceasar and Eric J. The AI isn't capable of flying anything bigger than an F-15A  properly. So the MIG-25, Su-27 and the F-14 are fairly easy to handle. It might have to do with the weight or the thrust ratio?? If i recall correctly the game limits the TW F-14A tomcats to 14000 internal fuel load...

[cougar_1979 37]

Could be. I'm not sure yet, but i just flew several sorties in big planes and small planes, VS big planes and small planes. I chose to fly the AC with FM that i am familiar with and after about a dozen flight i think i have a hypothesis. Maybe it's not size or weight per se. Here is what i observed. An AI, no matter in what plane is turning (horiznotal, vertical or oblique), when neutral, tries to stay at best sustained turning speed. As soon you get a nose on it goes for the best instantaneous turn or corner velocity. After that break the AI tries to go back to best sustained. This in turn has some direct effects on the AI's performance. When the AI is in a plane that has a relatively high corner velocity (F-15, F-16) the AI ends up not bleeding as much energy in the break and thus having it easier to recover. However when the AI is in a plane with low corner velocity (F-14, Su-27) the break (especially if executed for more then a 1-2s) lives it very low on energy (250-300KIAS), so low that even the extra thrust the Flanker has can not help it recover in time. This may even not be a direct effect of the low corner velocity, but the high values for the AoA at which these velocities are met. At high AoA the induced drag of these AC is so large, that has the above effect, slowing the AI down. The extra thrust always helps to remedy this, but only up to a point. As soon as any bird ventures in the 20+ degrees true AoA region, the drag is too large for any engine to compensate, no matter how pwerful. This is actually quite realistic, as this is the way it would happen IRL, if one tends to break too hard (the whole point of making an oponent overshoot). It just seams that the AI doesn't always handle it the best. Actually it seams like it handles it the same way in all AC it is given, thus the diference in performance in different planes. I will have to fly several sorties agains a Bug and Super Bug to see if this will apply to smaller planes as well.

[macelena 1,070]

Actually, in the Lightning VS Tomcat dogfight, they  maneuvered in the vertical enough for 3 out of 4 to remain in the air before the merge, and when the dogfight ensued, each had pulled to a different level, but in the end, the fight evolved into an horizontal game of "Chase his tail". I don´t know, my own flight was "Poor" on training and the Tomcats were "Average", but the Saudis acted smarted than expected and the Iranians dumber, wich is why i had the chance to end up killing both and surviving. Well, and also because i´m a ruthless, treacherous scavenger wich uses his wingmen as bait and never engages in a dogfight without cheating.

[cougar_1979 37]

This gave me an interesting idea, maybe i should experiment more with AI difficulty setting instead for going to the expert level at all times, might get more variaty that way.