Wodin Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Just wondered if anyone knew why the F4 didn't have internal guns? Seems odd for them to have been left out when they where designing that plane... Quote
Caesar Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 The prevailing thought at the time was that missiles would finish any fight well before planes would see each other. Why install a gun when you have missiles to kill someone 15 miles away? Of course, Vietnam changed all that with the WVR ROE that nullified the range advantages, combined with the fact that the missiles of the time turned out to be horrendously unreliable. Lesson learned: fighters need guns! F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and even the new F-22 all were designed with guns. Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 of course history buffs, in 1954 the original spec for what would become the F-4B Phantom 2, called the AH1 called for a quartet of guns similar to the F-100. then as Ceasar said the thinking of the time said guns were obsolete and the specs got changed. Quote
+Soulfreak Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) F-4E, F-4EJ & F-4F have an internal Gun... Edited March 1, 2011 by Soulfreak Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Not all modern jets are designed with internal guns, just take a look at the F-35, not all versions have a gun! Quote
Wodin Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks for the info....so how come the Brits didn't put missile racks on the hunter and I think the Harrier in the game has none either though I'm not sure.... Quote
+Wrench Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 because when the Hunter was built there weren't any A-A missiles*. Sidewinders were under development starting around 53-54, and didn't reach operations with the USN until sometime around 57-58ish (have to double check. Research=Knowledge. *later model Swiss marks added 'winder capabililty, iirc, in the 70s* wrench kevin stein Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 *later model Swiss marks added 'winder capabililty, iirc, in the 70s* wrench kevin stein several late model hunters had 'winder rails, but those swiss models also had maverick Capabilty. talk about revamping an old warhorse! Quote
Caesar Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Not all modern jets are designed with internal guns, just take a look at the F-35, not all versions have a gun! Not internally, no, but they do have a specially designed gun pod for the B and C, while the A's gun is internal. Think it has to do with the lift fan assembly in the B; but I don't know why the C's gun isn't internal - suffice to say they've all been designed with the compatibility to carry a gun. Quote
Slartibartfast Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 several late model hunters had 'winder rails, but those swiss models also had maverick Capabilty. talk about revamping an old warhorse! Well if it works why not... and they where being used for ground attack normally... and 4 30mm Aden's will generally make a mess of most things... Quote
Wodin Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 @Wrench...I am researching...by asking questions on here;) Thanks again.... Quote
+MigBuster Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 of course history buffs, in 1954 the original spec for what would become the F-4B Phantom 2, called the AH1 called for a quartet of guns similar to the F-100. then as Ceasar said the thinking of the time said guns were obsolete and the specs got changed. You also see it written sometimes that Guns were also left off interceptors because they didnt think the pilots would want to get so close to bombers with nuclear arms - whether that was really in their thinking - not sure . Quote
+MigBuster Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 @Wrench...I am researching...by asking questions on here;) Thanks again.... Nothing wrong in encouraging you to look for credible sources of information though. Even a forum with knowledgeable people can sometimes provide wrong answers because they couldn't be bothered to check. and when I say credible - that does not include the Media! Quote
PraetorH Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 F-4E, F-4EJ & F-4F have an internal Gun... ... which is pretty much the same aircraft, downgraded more (F-4F) or less (F-4EJ). Of course you got a point that the USAF added a gun due to Vietnam experiences, while most costumers also opted for a gun. Interestingly naval Phantoms still not not include a gun, even in the newest versions, but I do not know why. Can anyone tell me, please? Quote
+Wrench Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 bring-aboard weight issues, and saftey with the mountings wrench kevin stein Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 think he meant the E style Phantoms Wrench. i believe it more to do with commonality (N's were revamped B's while S's are revamped J's) and institutional pride than mountings (not sure on wieght). the testbed for the gun nosed Phantom was RF-4C 62-1220 and the RF-4B was a RF-4C nose mated to F-4B airframe. the Marines had deployed RF-4Bs off of carriers. final part of my arguement is that max takeoff weight and "combat" wieght are around 1000 lbs more for the E than the S. could be taken care of by restricting use of the centerline station. just sayin........ Quote
Wodin Posted March 2, 2011 Author Posted March 2, 2011 My WW1 and WW2 knowledge is very good indeed...post WW2 not that good...read a few books on Vietnam and Korea but not with regards to the air war. Quote
PraetorH Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Both your answers are interesting, Wrench and DA! Quote
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