j-35 Draken SFP1 cockpit wip

[+ordway 23]

SFP1 J-35 Draken cockpit candidates WIP based on Gepard's F4E Draklen cockpit. The Draken had the radar high up on the instrument panel, not buried down between the pilot's knees. As Gepard points out, the F4E has this feature.

 

I am also working a bit on refining the flight model, particularily the roll characteristics based from a computer flight model made with actuall Draken pilots imput.

 

 

 

Actual late model Draken cockpit with tape instruments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saab J35J candiate

 

 

 

 

 

Mid to late series Saab Draken cockpit

[+FLOGGER23 3,064]

To me they are simply great, man...

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

Wow, looks pretty nice!

[Derk 265]

Great news Ordway, an old wish coming true . Remember there is also the trick to get rid of the windscreen framing (the Draken basically had a single piece screen, I'll send it to you if you like) and would there be a possibility to get rid of the second set of engine instrruments? The only problem that would remain is the F35 pit of the Danish Drakens which had no radar, but then only a small number of then were built....

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

[+Gepard 11,315]

[+ordway 23]

>Great news Ordway, an old wish coming true . Remember there is also the trick to get rid of the windscreen framing (the Draken basically had a single piece screen, I'll >send it to you if you like) and would there be a possibility to get rid of the second set of engine instrruments? The only problem that would remain is the F35 pit of the Danish >Drakens which had no radar, but then only a small number of then were built....

 

 

Very interesting! Yes please send me all the files you have.

 

1) So the Draken had two thin windscreen frames. So how would I replicate this? Any input from anyone is welcome.

 

2) Are the grey round knobs on the left side of the F4E gunsight imbedded in with the gunsight mesh as a whole? I could not find individual left side knob meshes to eliminate...

 

3) Does anyone know how to get rid of those extra engine instruments in the F-4E? They seem to be all or nothing.

Edited March 16, 2011 by ordway

[Derk 265]

>Great news Ordway, an old wish coming true . Remember there is also the trick to get rid of the windscreen framing (the Draken basically had a single piece screen, I'll >send it to you if you like) and would there be a possibility to get rid of the second set of engine instrruments? The only problem that would remain is the F35 pit of the Danish >Drakens which had no radar, but then only a small number of then were built....

 

 

Very interesting! Yes please send me all the files you have.

 

Try out this for a start, (only thing is, don't remeber exactly which one of the two additions moves the windscreen frame but it's easy to find out..)

 

http://simhq.net/for...tml#Post1610476

 

I didn't try very hard but never succeeded in pulling the same trick with for instance the F104 pit or maybe the Mirage pit or the F105 one (has nice vertical indicators like the Draken) and it would save you the trouble of removing the instrument set for the second engine.. A classic Western radar equiped single engine pit with a one part windscreen would be a nice addition.......

 

Houdoe

 

Derk

F_16_cockpit_view1.html

Edited March 16, 2011 by Derk

[+ordway 23]

Thanks, I tried this with your imput. It worked. However, it now has an F-16 view without any cockpit framing whatsoever in any view whatsoever and has a wickedly good F-16 view like you are sitting on the tip of a telephone pole..

 

I guess if every plane had no cockpit framing shown it might be okay.

 

 

 

Very interesting! Yes please send me all the files you have.

 

Try out this for a start, (only thing is, don't remeber exactly which one of the two additions moves the windscreen frame but it's easy to find out..)

 

http://simhq.net/for...tml#Post1610476

 

I didn't try very hard but never succeeded in pulling the same trick with for instance the F104 pit or maybe the Mirage pit or the F105 one (has nice vertical indicators like the Draken) and it would save you the trouble of removing the instrument set for the second engine.. A classic Western radar equiped single engine pit with a one part windscreen would be a nice addition.......

 

Houdoe

 

Derk

Edited March 18, 2011 by ordway

[FrankTB 14]

Hi ordway checkout the old Mig-29A pit mod cockpit ini done by Fubar back 2005 its a mod of the F-4E cockpit and has the

cockpit ini edits you need. you will find it in the Cockpit downloads near the end. Im very interested on how

you get on with getting rid of the instruments you dont need.

[+NeverEnough 78]

Hey Ordway, here is Fubar's original post on removing the F-4 front cockpit frame to do a interim MiG-29 cockpit.

 

Cockpit Mods

Here's a pit that I've modded into a "MiG-29" pit. Consider it more of a place holder until someone creates an accurate model. It is essentially the default SF/WoV F-4E pit, originally painted by MK2 & Deacon 272. I detailed a few areas, added a new RWR and RADAR overlays, and applied an idea first thought of by AD. That is, hiding the canopy struts.

 

Btw...how do you open the pit files to alter them?? I want to try my hand at modding some pits, what do i need to get started.?

 

Open which files? I used a hex editor to edit some bitmap associations, and the canopy frame edit was Armour Dave's idea. MS Paint (of all things) served as my bitmap editor

It's simply this:

Open the F-4E_cockpit.ini file.

Add this to the top section:

 

Instrument[071]=MoveCanopyStrut

Instrument[072]=MoveCanopyFrame

 

Add this to the very end of the file:

 

[MoveCanopyStrut] or [MoveCanopyFrame]

Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR

NodeName=FrontFrame (or CanopyFrame]

MovementType=POSITION_Y

Set[01].Position=-100

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=-99

Set[02].Value=1.0

 

FrontFrame gives you the F-15 style canopy.

CanopyFrame gives you the early MiG-21 style canopy

You'll need a hex editor here as well, to verify the node names(frame, strut, etc.)

[Derk 265]

Never Enough came up with the thing I forgot (which one of the two items to use) and said it all: use the FrontFrame item only, . AD's trick was originally deveoped for the very early F 16's and indeed later used again for the MiG 29. It's probably a lot of work to find out how to implement this trick on for instance the F104 pit or some others, but interesting just the same. Lots of single engine jets around with or without radar with one piece windscreens and (if I remember it correctly), very late in the career of the F4 in the USAF, some of them were tried out with new single piece windscreens too ........

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

Edited March 18, 2011 by Derk

[+ordway 23]

>

.>Never Enough came up with the thing I forgot (which one of the two items to use) and said it all: use the FrontFrame item only, . AD's trick was originally deveoped for the very early F 16's and indeed later used again for the >MiG 29. It's probably a lot of work to find out how to implement this trick on for instance the F104 pit or some others, but interesting just the same. Lots of single engine jets around with or without radar with one piece >windscreens and (if I remember it correctly), very late in the career of the F4 in the USAF, some of them were tried out with new single piece windscreens too ........

 

>Derk

 

 

Okay by moving the front frame and writing the following in the cockpit.ini, in an early Danish ground attack Draken, I get the following cockpit for the window frames. Comments anyone? To me it doesn't look too good and it looks like something trying to be something else...But is an interesting experiment. Thanks!

 

[MoveCanopyStrut]

Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR

NodeName=FrontFrame

MovementType=POSITION_Y

Set[01].Position=-100

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=-99

Set[02].Value=1.0

 

Edited March 18, 2011 by ordway

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

TK's F-104 canopy mesh Moves are simple. I did it two ways here...

 

Scroll down a pinch ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB3w/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4410&start=96

[Derk 265]

TK's F-104 canopy mesh Moves are simple. I did it two ways here...

 

Scroll down a pinch ~> http://bbs.thirdwire...t=4410&start=96

 

 

Tried it out but there seems to be no separate possibility to remove the front frame only, leads to the F16 style thing. Felt rather exposed in a Hawk 127.....

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

Edited March 19, 2011 by Derk

[+ordway 23]

>

>Tried it out but there seems to be no separate possibility to remove the front frame only, leads to the F16 style thing. Felt rather exposed in a Hawk 127.....

 

Yes, if you look at the outside front cockpit framing from an outside view, it is one clear piece in the front. This does not lend itselft to dropping in a cockpit into the external frame and seeing the two frames of the cockit canopy front. It is just clear.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Yea, sorry, after hexing the lod, F-104 canopy frame does seem to be all one mesh.

 

For those who don't know (I didn't until a year or so back) -- recall Anita, blonde gal from ABBA?

 

From 1969

[FrankTB 14]

ordway I dont know if its any use to you or not but I tried the two enteries in the cockpit in in one of the F-4 and got the same

results showing a opaque image of the frame so I tried the F-4ES cockpit and hud update in the Viggen as it dosent have a front

frame and added the two edits and it worked fine with this cockpit

[Derk 265]

ordway I dont know if its any use to you or not but I tried the two enteries in the cockpit in in one of the F-4 and got the same

results showing a opaque image of the frame so I tried the F-4ES cockpit and hud update in the Viggen as it dosent have a front

frame and added the two edits and it worked fine with this cockpit

 

No problem either with Fubars old MiG 29 pit based on the Phantom pit (can still be downloaded in the cockpit section)

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

 

As for the F104 pit: pity, would have been nice. Maybe the F 105 after all ?

And concerning Anita: those were the days !!!!!!!!!

Edited March 20, 2011 by Derk

[+ordway 23]

ordway I dont know if its any use to you or not but I tried the two enteries in the cockpit in in one of the F-4 and got the same

results showing a opaque image of the frame so I tried the F-4ES cockpit and hud update in the Viggen as it dosent have a front

frame and added the two edits and it worked fine with this cockpit

 

 

Thanks! Good job. Thanks to both of you and Derk, I now I know how to do it without any frontal frames at all. I am seriously thinking of using just the opaque/see through frames as a compromise as shown in the photo immediately below.. Any thoughts anyone?

 

It looks like a possibility. It looks different than the F-4 and gives a nod to the coclpit framing as if light is reflecting off the two slim frames.

 

 

 

 

Versus:

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the no frame...it looks a little naked to me.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2011 by ordway

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

That's great!

 

I think I gonna fly swedish before too long.

[Derk 265]

Still like the one without the opaque frames better. Maybe a little darkening of the HUD glass will make you feel less naked

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

[+ordway 23]

Still like the one without the opaque frames better. Maybe a little darkening of the HUD glass will make you feel less naked

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

 

This F4B cockpit is a little better without the frames....but still compared to the actual one below....

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the frames are still there in a real J35 Draken.

 

 

Another F4B

 

 

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

To me both look great!

 

I just can't wait xD

[+ordway 23]

[media][/media]

Still like the one without the opaque frames better. Maybe a little darkening of the HUD glass will make you feel less naked

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

 

 

Hi Derk,

If you look at this you tube saab cockpit (simulator) in flight, the two front window frames are extremely prominent to the pilot while in flight and definitely are part of the front view that a pilot has to deal with.

 

http://wn.com/Saab_J35_Draken

 

The movie's title is "Saab j35 simulator" 0:49 seconds playing time

 

I'll probably include both versions with and without frames.

Edited March 29, 2011 by ordway

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

You may have to find a 3D modder to make a rod LOD with simple skin, and hang two of them as weapons or bpao's on the external model so they are visible...while the models' nose or fus are not visible. A more advanced step might could be a Draken Canopy LOD -- not cockpit -- to hang on the airplane, with the F-4 cockpit inside.

 

--

 

That's one thing that could be done, make a library of 3d geometric objects of various sizes that can hold a simple skin. That would clutter up the SF-1 Aircraft folder, so maybe its a better idea for THE SF-2, if the new game does "pilot" and "weapon" additions differently.