Fighting in the F-102

[Viggen 644]

Finally got SF2E and immediately went and downloaded NATO Fighters IV+. Flying the '62 campaign in the F-102. I'm two missions in with one KIA, a damaged plane, and one kill (granted he was an ace). I've already been nearly hit by MiG-17s more times than I can count on fingers alone and got chased half way into West Germany by a MiG-19 after losing my wingman. And that was just in the first mission. Second one was a recon flight so I just flew low and fast(ish).

 

How does one survive in the Delta Dagger? The AIM-4s suck and the FFARs are useless. Can't accelerate past mach 1 outside of a dive either. I've only been up to 20,000 feet so I don't know if flying low is the problem. Is the trick to use slashing attacks and the vertical?

[MAKO69 186]

The F-102 was a Bomber Interceptor with a lot of short comings. 2 big ones speed and maneuverability, your fighting a knife fight in a phone booth with a bastard sword. Shoot your load at the bombers and get out of dodge don't stick around and wait to get shot down.F-102 WIKI

Edited August 10, 2011 by MAKO69

[+ordway 23]

Finally got SF2E and immediately went and downloaded NATO Fighters IV+. Flying the '62 campaign in the F-102. I'm two missions in with one KIA, a damaged plane, and one kill (granted he was an ace). I've already been nearly hit by MiG-17s more times than I can count on fingers alone and got chased half way into West Germany by a MiG-19 after losing my wingman. And that was just in the first mission. Second one was a recon flight so I just flew low and fast(ish).

 

How does one survive in the Delta Dagger? The AIM-4s suck and the FFARs are useless. Can't accelerate past mach 1 outside of a dive either. I've only been up to 20,000 feet so I don't know if flying low is the problem. Is the trick to use slashing attacks and the vertical?

 

 

Mako69's advice is pretty good. However, I have had sucess in using the F-102 by using the hi Yo Yo against Mig-17s and Mig-21s like the Israelis did in their underpowered Mirage III deltas during their wars (They called it the "stitch"). Basically, you conserve energy and outturn him in the vertical. Always keep your speed high. At the merge, get as close head on to the Mig as you can. Just before the merge pull up (not too hard) into a climbing turn in his direction of turn. As he is turning horizontally, you can literally cut across his turn. Dive back down to his level and and repeat the climbing turn in the same direction.

 

 

 

Eventually, you will be able to come into his rear quadrant from below. He will panic and turn harder until he is out of speed. Then he is a sitting duck.

 

 

 

A second alternative is the "rope a dope". Being a Mig, they will bleed off energy pretty badly in a turn. So at the merge, again get as close to him as possible. Start a gentle early turn but maintain your speed. Let him do a hard speed-bleeding turn behind you. Keep enough speed to do a loop. By the time he has come almost to within firing range, you can now zoomclimb into the Sun. to behind you in a turn, you go vertically up enough to keep his nose away from you into the Sun. He should run out of speed and stall and his nose will fall. You are maneuverable down to almost zero airspeed in the F-102. So now you can come down and zap him.

 

 

A third alternnative is to try to do a turn at above 450-500 knots and keeping your speed at this amount. Often Mig's don't turn well at these speeds due to heavy controls and you will slowly out turn him

[Faust_ 1]

good tip ordway, thanks for share it...

 

mako69... is true that the F-102 is a bomber interceptor, but...

 

"I was in the 326 FIS at RG AFB (Kansas City MO) when the Cuban Missile Crisis started...

Later on we were down at Homestead AFB with 20 birds, all set to be day fighters (!) and top cover (!) for the F-100s and F-105s that were to transform Cuba into a parking lot. Never saw a MiG but we got one hell of a lot of flying--1800 hours in one month, flying CAP for the recce birds and scrambling on anything that flew."

 

http://www.456fis.org/FLYING_THE_F-102A.htm

 

in those times, the USAF had a doctrine that the FIS (fighter interception squadrons) isn't just for take down bomber, as in korea, they put FIS in air superiority roles, leaving most of the time the TFS (tactical fighter squadrons) for (nuclear) bombing...

 

so, fighting with interceptors (and missiles) in that period would be very plausible

 

that was exactly what happened in vietnam

 

and as in vietnam, sometimes avoiding or disengaging a fight isn't a option...

[Wrench 9,851]

Easy fix for the Deuce:

 

[MissionData]

NationName=USAF

ServiceStartYear=1956

ServiceEndYear=1976

AircraftRole=FIGHTER

AircraftCapability=DAY_AND_NIGHT

Availability=COMMON

Exported=TRUE

ExportAvailability=VERY_RARE

ExportStartYear=1968

ExportEndYear=1979

PrimaryRoles=INTERCEPT <-----

SecondaryRoles=

NormalMissionRadius=564

MaxMissionRadius=764

Ceiling=15790.00

MinBaseSize=MEDIUM

 

after all, that what it was built for!

[+Spillone104 553]

Indeed ordway,

too bad the 102 was not capable to hit a fighter at close range since it lacked a gun or a missile that could be used at those distances. The Falcons had an high minimum range and as explained in other occasions they required complex procedures prior to launch. Not to mention the use of FFAR against fighters

 

So my best advice is to try to engage your enemy at high altitude and speed and keep distance.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Used for Escort over Nam briefly and for armed recon as well were they not - FFARs could be useful for that.

 

One major issue (apart from the lack of power) is the visibility from the pit - the razbam pit has the frame across the top, as well as blocking the front 12 view so even shooting FFARs is a bit if a nightmare - let alone keeping tally on a bandit in your rear 180.

 

The AIM-4 setup was different in the 102/106 AFAIK - but in this sim having the 1 press shot doesnt always help things

Still if you fancy a challenge......

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Spill::

required complex procedures prior to launch.

F-4 yes indeed. Maybe not so for birds given Falcons at the factory.

 

MiGB::

The AIM-4 setup was different in the 102/106 AFAIK

 

101 too. Gums flew Voodoos and poasts at f-16 that Falcons were easy to use in birds mated to it from the start.

 

Gums appears on both pages here ~> http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=11321&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=71ca9c00a031beb6686d492f08e437a0

 

Gums: page 2

:

:

Biggest problem was Hughes and McAir used a highly integrated radar and armament system for the ADC birds. So our switchology was really simple compared the the jury-rigged Phantom implementation....

:

:

:etc...

 

 

As always thanks MiG for pointing that f-16 site out for me.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Lexx_Luthor

[Toryu 156]

Well, I'd say nothing says "in yo face" batter, than a Genie squeezed off into a furball-dogfight

 

You'd have to make a fictional (though officially proposed) upgrade on your Deuce before, however...

[Wrench 9,851]

(cough) AIM-26A w/W54 warhead (cough)

[MAKO69 186]

Mako69's advice is pretty good. However, I have had sucess in using the F-102 by using the hi Yo Yo against Mig-17s and Mig-21s like the Israelis did in their underpowered Mirage III deltas during their wars (They called it the "stitch"). Basically, you conserve energy and outturn him in the vertical. Always keep your speed high. At the merge, get as close head on to the Mig as you can. Just before the merge pull up (not too hard) into a climbing turn in his direction of turn. As he is turning horizontally, you can literally cut across his turn. Dive back down to his level and and repeat the climbing turn in the same direction.

 

 

 

Eventually, you will be able to come into his rear quadrant from below. He will panic and turn harder until he is out of speed. Then he is a sitting duck.

 

 

 

A second alternative is the "rope a dope". Being a Mig, they will bleed off energy pretty badly in a turn. So at the merge, again get as close to him as possible. Start a gentle early turn but maintain your speed. Let him do a hard speed-bleeding turn behind you. Keep enough speed to do a loop. By the time he has come almost to within firing range, you can now zoomclimb into the Sun. to behind you in a turn, you go vertically up enough to keep his nose away from you into the Sun. He should run out of speed and stall and his nose will fall. You are maneuverable down to almost zero airspeed in the F-102. So now you can come down and zap him.

 

 

A third alternnative is to try to do a turn at above 450-500 knots and keeping your speed at this amount. Often Mig's don't turn well at these speeds due to heavy controls and you will slowly out turn him

 

If you are in a dog fight with any jet plane you should keep your speed 400kts or better, and at least 3000 ft AGL to correct for pilot error departed flight.

 

You get in a 1 on 1 with a MIG in a 102 and you have advantage, like he passes in front of you and you are about 2-8 miles away and you can send a missle at him, maybe then tangle, but the 102 like all the century series fighters, you have 2, (3 whips if you are MACH .9 somthing It takes an act of God to get a 102 above the MACH 1 meter loaded out for a mission) of the stick before you hemorrhage all you air speed, and the 102 takes a lot longer to get speed back than it does to get it rid of it. Good luck I would rather dogfight a MIG in a P-51D strike that a P-39Q than a 102 anyday.

Edited August 14, 2011 by MAKO69