Help with the Voisin III

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I'm researching the Voisin III and I'm finding conflicting information about the bomb loads - somewhere between 200 and 300 lbs.

 

I also don't know how the bombs were carried, under the fuselage? or internal?

 

Can anyone help or direct me to some good resources? Photos or sketches of the bomb racks or with bombs loaded would help a lot.

 

Thanks

Stephen1918

Edited September 23, 2011 by Stephen1918

[+whiteknight06604 935]

I'll see what I can track down. great news about the Voison, I love pushers in general and the many Voisons in particular.

[+sinbad 27]

Here are a few that may help. Do you have the datafile?

[33LIMA 972]

Hi Stephen!

 

The Italian book 'Warbirds - Military Aircraft of the First World War in Colour' (mine is a translation edited by W Green) includes the Voisin as one of the 25 planes featured and has a decent 2-page 5-view colour spread of 3LA V1391 of the AMF plus some pics and some colour side profiles of various other Voisins.

 

Re the bomb load, there is a small undated photo of a 3LA of 7 Squadriglia whose caption says '...early type of bomb rack is visible beneath the cockpit; French airmen of the day preferred to carry their bomb loads attached to the sides of the fuselage.' The bomb rack in question looks to be a typical (ie similar to RFC Cooper Bomb racks under scout fuselages) steel tube framework fitted about a foot beneath the nacelle, roughly where the front and rear V struts from the undercarriage meet; but it's a small photo with ground crew obscuring part of the rack. There is a colour side view of Italian 3 LA V1317 (with Isotta Fraschini inline engine) showing this rack carrying a short oblong bomb with fins at the end of a rod, and the rack is drawn as an inverted T shape, in side view.

 

Another of the colour side views is of the port side of Belgian 3LA V505; this is illustrated with three tall, thin finned bombs carried vertically side-by-side, nose uppermost, in a rack on the side of the nacelle, beside the observer's (rear) cockpit. Trying to interpret the side drawing, the bomb rack looks to consist of a tray (open topped rectangular box) maybe 2 feet long by maybe 4 inches high fitted with its base just above the bottom of the nacelle (in which the bases of the bombs sit), with a rectangular hoop or rail level with the top of the nacelle above it to retain the noses of the bombs (which extend a few inches above the level of the rail/nacelle top edge) and and a rail each side running from the outer edge of the lower tray, up to the outer edge of the rail. Presumably there would be an identical rack on the other side of the nacelle. I've not found any photographic confirmation of this but it looks a bit detailed to be an invention and accords with the caption for the differently-fitted Italian machine.

 

Under 'Technical description', the text for the VoisinLA says amongst other things 'The bomb load was racked horizontally under the fuselage or vertically, along the sides'.

 

This is a big book but I can try to get some scans if that would help.

Edited September 23, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Thanks gentlemen, this is helpful. Any ideas on how many bombs or what weight?

 

Sinbad - I don't have the datafile, but I did find some of those photos online. The last one has nice details of the undercarriage just barely visible.

 

33Lima - I may need to do two loadouts, one for side mounted bombs and one for bombs underneath. A scan or two would be helpful, but don't damage your book to get it. The verbal description is very helpful.

[33LIMA 972]

OK I think I've hit paydirt here. In the unlikely source of Osprey's 'Pusher Aces of World War 1' there's a nice clear close-up photo of '...Nungesser in his 3 LAS with a rack of bombs installed on one side of the nacelle', will scan that aSAP.

 

PS the above photo shows what looks like TWO of the racks illustrated in the other book's side view, fitted side by side and carrying 2x4=8 bombs with distinctive fragmentation cases and exxtended rod fuses designed to burst them before they dig in.

Edited September 24, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+ojcar 157]

Sorry, but I can't help vey much. I don't have books about the Voisin and the data available is contradictory, but it's a 120 Hp pusher, and we have in game the Farman MF 11, a 100 Hp pusher. Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, I must investigate more....)says the Farman carried 18 7.3Kg (16 lb bombs) (in game 12 90 mm bombs, because we haven't 16lb bombs). So 300 lbs doesn't seem very unrealistic at first sight.

[33LIMA 972]

Here's those scans:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2011 by 33LIMA

[33LIMA 972]

[Wilches 1,172]

It seams that wasn´t any standard concerning bomb loads at all. An external bomb load is, for me, the most likely. Every unit had its own bomb loading place. Quite a challenge!

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Thanks guys, this helps a lot. It looks like I'll be doing two loadouts. I've also noticed differences in wings and other details from plane to plane. Maybe because of different manufacturers or because of field modifications. Mine will be an average (actually I'm including the features I like )

 

Thanks for the help.

Stephen1918

[dsawan 624]

more info

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voisin_III

[dreamk 0]

Stephen Hi!

 

A lot of confusing info runs through the web and the specialized press about the various Voisin planes. It took me quite a time to find the original French sources that allowed me to put some order in all this mess. The main source of confusion is in the denomination III, V etc.. which was totally unknown during ww1. The french sources speak of:

1) "Voisin 13,50m" (13.50m wingspan) with Gnôme 80ch rotatif

renamed "Voisin L" after when engine with a Salmson 130Hp.

2) "Voisin LA" (14.74m wingspan)with a Salmson 140Hp

3) "Voisin LAS" (S for "sureleve" as the engine whas "pushed upwards" by comparision with the Voisin L and LA) (14.64m wingspan her too) witha Salmson 140 or 150 Hp

4) Voisin LBP/LBS (different cabin enabling to mount a forwards firing cannon, same wingspan) Salmson 150Hp

 

Beyond the differences in engines and wingspan, the wing profile was diffrent:

a) for Voisin "13,50m 1913" and Voisin L both wing are of same width, the lower ailerons are attached to the wing edge and therefore protruding behind this wing edge ____-----------------------____

b) for voisin LA, the upper wing is now larger (14.74m) than the lower wing but (13.50m) but the wing profile remains similar to the Voisin L

c) voisin LAS wing dimensions imilar to the Voisin LA but the ailerons are now integrated in a widenned wing chord, with a "gap" at the position of the propeller ______________---------______________

d) Voisin LB/LBS/LBP the upper wing is displaced slightly forward to ensure stability of aircraft when firing teh gun.

 

get a look to the 3dmodels I have created for exporting to Il2 to get a visual impression of all this:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/voisinl.gif/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/voisinla.gif/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/voisinlas.gif/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/voisinlb.gif/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/voisinlbp.gif/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/anatravoisinivanov.gif/

 

PS if someone has a plans/clear line drawings of the Isotta Fraschini Voisin - I'd be delighted!

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Thanks DreamK, this clears things up a lot. I've been using photos of the LAS in Paris as my primary refernce.

 

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Fre/Voisin/index.html

 

Very similar to the Italian V.589 shown in 33Lima's scans. With a horizontal mounted Salmson 140(?) hp engine (not tilted) and with a Hotchkiss machine gun.

 

Your 3D models are great! Are you planning to bring them into First Eagles?

[dreamk 0]

Hi Stephen!

I am in the process of exporting them to Il2 - but if you want to export them to FE, you are wellcome - just send em a PM here or on the SAS1946 forum to tell me which models you are interested to export to First Eagles and I'll send them to you by email - so long they are used for making fully freeware, unrestricted, mods, like your own planes, and credits are given, it's fine with me. They are mostly between 3000 to 12000 polys 3ds models, fully mapped.

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Hi Stephen!

I am in the process of exporting them to Il2 - but if you want to export them to FE, you are wellcome - just send em a PM here or on the SAS1946 forum to tell me which models you are interested to export to First Eagles and I'll send them to you by email - so long they are used for making fully freeware, unrestricted, mods, like your own planes, and credits are given, it's fine with me. They are mostly between 3000 to 12000 polys 3ds models, fully mapped.

 

 

Thanks for the generous offer DreamK. For now I'm going to concentrate of building my own planes.