AI Planes Crashing with HPW EW Mods

[CaptSopwith 18]

Hi guys,

 

Just thought I'd file a quick trouble report while I'm on a break from working.

 

I'm flying a 24RFC pilot in February of 1916. We're at a pretty large collection of air fields - I'm guessing 24 was stationed at a massive RFC installation which makes sense. That said, our flights frequently take off from different ends of the fields. I'm seeing a lot of AI - about half a flight sometimes - crashing into the trees and buildings at the ends of the fields. This is happening on a regular basis.

 

Not sure how often this is happening elsewhere in the game world but I'd thought I'd pass it along...

[Olham 164]

Pilot, this is intollerable - you don't even know the NAME of your squadron's own airfield? Tch!

 

I guess you are flying the Airco DH-2 from Bertangles, CaptSopwith?

Bertangles was actually 3 airfields, like in OFF - if you want to see, where it was, see my link:

 

http://combatace.com/topic/70823-the-bertangles-aerodromes/page__view__findpost__p__554361

[OlPaint01 0]

I noticed that when I my current running campaign is with RFC 24, flying DH-2, in spring of 1916, all, each and everyone, of my squadron sortie mates, crash land short of the field back at our home aerodrome at Bertangles . I suspect that there may be a bug in the airfield elevation tables that the AI pickup and fail to adjust for when taking off and landing.

 

Pol said, in another thread, that this will be fixed in WOFF. And the New WOFF Preview Movies (#1 or #2 I can't remember which) confirms that - the AI land perfectly well.

 

 

OlPaint

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[CaptSopwith 18]

I haven't seen the landing issues - I usually exit out after I land and I'm usually on the ground, switches off, long before my wingmen circle around. The bug I'm seeing occurs on take off when we have a large number of planes on the ground taking off towards any sort of object or structure - IE: trees and hangers. I'll lose a handful of pilots when they hit the trees at the end of the field. When I roll OFF back to a vanilla, stock, setting, the bug never happens.

[Hauksbee 103]

.

. I'm seeing a lot of AI - about half a flight sometimes - crashing into the trees and buildings at the ends of the fields. This is happening on a regular basis.

Just wondering...do they crash and burn as real planes would, or just merge into/through the hillside, as 3D objects will?

[Panama Red 22]

They crash and explode.

[OlPaint01 0]

And the wreckage is left burning on the ground...with a dust cloud billowing up at impact site.

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

What HPW needs to sort out problems with planes taking off is a list of specific planes that have major trouble (half the flight crashing consistently).

 

Planes that crash on takeoff:

Airco DH2 (CaptSopwith)

Halberstadt DII (Lothar)

 

Planes known to be fine:

Albatros DII (Lothar)

 

Additionally, if you give me the names of problem planes so they match what OFF puts in the pilot dossier line 89, it's easy to script OFFice to deactivate the EW mod automatically for player flights of these craft:

[found? find squad/aircraft "Airco DH2"]	[EW: false]
[squad/aircraft = "Hberstadt DII"]	 	[EW: false]

This deactivates it for the "Airco DH2 - 110" late variant as well.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Lothar of the Hill People

[Panama Red 22]

Or you can just go back to HPW's FM 2.0 and you have none of these problems with crashing planes or those who refuse to take-off.

[OlPaint01 0]

Panama Red, the aircraft takeoff successfully with HPW's FM 2.0. So IIRC, Lothar, HPW's FM 2.0 has two paks - "HPW Allied FM Pack_2.0" and "HPW German FM Pack_2.0"

 

And HPW, wasn't the Lighter AI EW mod originally an add-on to FM 2.0? Or was it a precursor to HPW FM 2.1?

 

OlPaint

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

HPW's 2.0 release is structured for the incorrect installation of JSGME, so needs to be repacked for compatibility. Only took a couple of minutes to do so, the repacked version temporarily located here so either OlPaint01 can include it in a bundle or HPW can update his original 2.0 release with these fixed files.

 

Next version of OFFice will support this repacked version, with the folders named just so to make it distinct from the EW version, giving users a choice of FM with or without EW.

 

HPW_Allied_FM_RePack
HPW_German_FM_RePack
HPW_Sopwith Pup 100 HP_RePack
HPW_Sopwith Tripe 130 HP_RePack
HPW_Spad 13 220 HP_RePack
HPW_Spad 13 235 HP_RePack
HPW_Spad VII 180 HP_RePack

Edited June 19, 2012 by Lothar of the Hill People

[Panama Red 22]

Lothar:

The only planes that I have found that have a problem in HPW's FM 2.0 are the stock planes he did not touch (like the FE2b). Other than that, this is suppose to be his last FM before he EW'ed the AI planes and the crashing / no takeoff problems started multiplying.

 

Just make sure you have his FM 2.0 N16 and Dr1 fix included or you will have problems with those planes.

[OlPaint01 0]

Lothar, HPW's FM 2.0 Mod or FM/EW 2.2 Mod were never a part of my Realism Bundle and I believe it should not be duplicated in the my Damage Model Bundle either. So I feel I must respectfully bow to HPW to update his FM 2.0 Mod for JSGME Enabled format.

 

OlPaint

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Good call, OlPaint01.

 

Panama Red, I didn't see those fixes could you point me to them for inclusion? I'll then send the whole thing to HPW so all he has to do is post it.

[Panama Red 22]

Here are the two fixes: http://combatace.com/topic/72767-hpw-fm-20-is-now-available/ , look at Post #13 and Post #24.

[OlPaint01 0]

Panama Red, those are the ones I have as well.

 

HPW N16 FM 2.0 Fix.7z

HPW Dr1 FM 2.0 Fix.7z

 

OlPaint

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Cool thanks guys, full repacked and fixed version here temporarily if you want to test it manually. I'll PM the link to HPW so he can upload it.

[Panama Red 22]

Lothar:

Thank you. This way people can pick which version of HPW's FM's they would like to use, his EW FM or Non EW FM with your OFFice.

 

I'm just thankful that HPW does put all this time and effort into improving the OFF FM / DM. It takes a lot of work to test, test, and test some more to get the planes to fly correctly.

 

 

 

[OlPaint01 0]

Yes, indeed! We should tip our collective hats to the Master FM Guru, Herr Prop-Wasche.

 

OlPaint

Edited June 19, 2012 by OlPaint01

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

I've yet to hear from HPW, so I included the repacked version of the FM mods without the AI EW mod in the download list along with the OFFice 0.7.9 download, which should hopefully be approved soon by admins. Both are in handy installers that put everything in its right place. Once HPW gets a chance to update the documentation and upload it himself I'll take the file out and just add a link.

 

0.7.9 is worth the upgrade as well, incorporating OlPaint01's suggestion for a "mood ring" mod the dynamically recolors that user interface to reflect the conditions of your pilot and squad. It's really cool, mostly because you get instant sensory feedback on how encounters affect your mood as the control bars around the buttons change color. Things just become much more natural--you feel it when your character gets angry--but I'm still not sure about the super-barmy war-is-a-tea-party pastels. A couple screenshots of the extremes are also on the download page. Check it out while you turn off the EW mod and let me know what you think. Try starting off with a fresh install or a pilot in a new squadron--the personalized color scheme fades in as you learn more about your new squad. The effect is especially dramatic with poorly-rated squadons.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

ZZZZZZZ, snort, cough, hack!

 

What the...?

 

Phew. My aching head. What a whopper! I must have been out two days...what...you said...almost two months?!!? (sputter)! That WAS a real bender--and the last time I try any green liquid offered to me by that shady Bullethead character! "Good for what ails ya," he says. Bah!!

 

Sorry to have been AWOL for so long, but life sorta got in the way as it sometimes does. I hope I didn't leave too many people in the lurch, waiting for a fix for the EW FM mod. Although I had to do avoid anything to do with OFF for this whole time, I hope to have a fix for this problem available in the next few days, assuming I can get OFF to work on my newly upgraded Win 7 OS. I believe all I need to do to fix this is to reduce the AI empty weight a little bit so there is not so much a discrepency between the human and AI empty weight values. The drawback, of course, is that the AI will have a slightly larger weight advantage on your aircraft than before--but still less than the AI has in the stock OFF verson.

 

You may also anticipate FM fixes for a few planes like the Camel so the AI flies them a little better, with not so much hanging and stalling in the air. I think you will find that the Camel is no longer as easy to kill because it doesn't hang at the top of its climb like it used to. I haven't completely solved the stall behavior of some of the other "problem" aeroplanes at low altitude, but even they fly somewhat better than they used to, IMO. Hellshade just gave me a suggestion to fix this that I haven't tried yet--I hope to test it out beginning either today or tomorrow.

 

Stage One will be too release the EW fix, along with an update to the Camel FM. ETA in a few days.

 

Stage Two will add FM tweaks to a few planes to try and improve their flight at low altitudes and reduce that stalling bug. ETA will be a bit longer, perhaps a week or two more because I have to test and change a lot more variables and then copy them to a lot more folders, etc.

 

So, I am back and very sorry about the unexcused absence. My punishment will be lenient, I trust?

 

HPW

Edited September 10, 2012 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Hmmm, pretty quiet in here. I guess most people are pretty satisfied with the current OFF FM--as they should be--it is a very fine interpretation of the flight characteristics of these antique relics from the past. Almost 100 years ago by now! Phew!

 

NEVERTHELESS, I have an important announcement about two significant FM changes that will be included in my long-overdue update to the AI Empty Weight FM mod:

 

1) I believe I have identified several variables common to the .air file for each plane in OFF that seem to control the AI's low-altitude flying behavior. By adjusting some of these variables, I have been able to eliminate some of the "porpoising" that many of the AI aircraft seem to do at altitudes lower than around 1,000 ft. This substantially reduces the roller-coaster behavior of the AI at low altitude and makes for a smoother, more level flight at low levels. This also makes the AI more willing to keep turning and evading at low levels and also makes them more likely to try and keep shooting at you if you try to escape by using the old trick of flying just above tree-top level. In general, the AI will now do a better job of maintaining altitude. When they do start porpoising, they also seem to take much less time to level out again. Lastly, I think I may have also reduced the AI's tendency to wildly adjust the throttle under certain conditions--again, usually at low level. Wild gyrations in the throttle also contributes to the porpoising behavior, I believe.

 

2) No less significantly, I think I have managed to reduce the tendency of certain AI controlled planes when engaged in a dogfight to constantly insist on trying to gain altitude while directly in front of your guns. This is the dreaded "stalling-T" behavior that Hellshade has mentioned at times. Sometimes, this behavior causes the plane to actually fall backwards--as if they are trying to perform a "reversement" or "Immelmann turn," but forgot to use the rudder! All eight Albatros', the Pfalz, and a few others are the most serious offenders here. Basically, I think I have managed to "encourage" the AI flying these planes to be a little more willing to use the rudder, whilst reducing their over-reliance on the elevator a little bit. This makes them more likely to roll or turn out of a climb than before, resulting in an AI that is not quite as easy to shoot down as before.

 

I plan to implement both of these AI FM changes in the coming update to the AI EW mod. The initial release will include the first FM change to the low-level AI behavior for all 47 planes currently in OFF. The initial release will also include the second FM change for all eight Albatros', Pfalz, Camel, and a few others. More aircraft will be added later after more testing. Speaking of which, I can always use more test pilots! So far, Hellshade and Panama Red have been a tremendous help and have shown tremendous patience in this regard. But, they can't test everything--there is just too much stuff in OFF--so any extra help would be greatly appreciated!

 

I know I have been very bad at promising the update will be ready "any day now," for at least a couple of months, so I think it better just to say that I hope to have the mod ready for download around two weeks or so from now.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Well, one step forward and two steps back.

 

It seems that improving the FM for the AI in order to reduce problems like the stalling-T may actually make the FM for the equivalent human-controlled plane less manueverable! In essence, making the AI more maneuverable at times seems to make the human-controlled plane less manueverable, and vice versa.

 

On the bright side, I think I can report with confidence that the problem with the AI crashing on takeoff has been dealt with appropriately! Although I could use more assistance with testing, I can personally report that instead of anywhere from 40-80 percent of my wingmates crashing on takeoff (depending on aircraft and airfield); I have managed to reduce this to less than 20 percent--generally much less! I'd say that 90% of the time, my whole flight now takes off without incident. So, at least that little bug-a-boo has been dealt with, I believe.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

We are getting closer!

 

I am basically finished making the required changes. All that remains is copying the changes--in total, more than well over a hundred, and those don't even include all the empty weight changes--to all 477 or so aircraft folders in OFF. So, I still have quite a bit of work to do, but at least I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

 

The final mod will contain three folders--a main campaign mod, and two folders for QC flying. Which QC mod you use will depend on whether you wish to fly against Allied or German enemy planes. I had to split the QC mods up in this way in order to eliminate the weight advantage the AI would still otherwise have in QC battles.

 

Of course, in addition to the weight changes, this mod also contains hundreds of different FM changes for virtually every plane in OFF! Most of these FM changes are designed to improve the AI's performance, but there are also some FM changes that will effect the human pilot, as well.

 

Finally, after this mod is released and if there doesn't appear to be any major problems, I will also eventually release an EW mod without any of my FM changes, for those who don't like the current AI weight advantage, but who also prefer the original OFF flight models. Fortunately, this next mod should not take nearly as much time to put together.

 

Now. Discuss...

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I'm sorry, I just have to ask since no one has responded to my last several posts: Is anyone interested anymore? Should I even bother working any more on these mods?

 

If you are interested, either post a reply or send me a PM so I can guage the level of interest.

 

Thank you--and thanks especially to the handful of people who have expressed their interest and support in the past for my "tweaking activities."

 

I don't mean to sound like a crybaby, but I'm also thinking of some of the other tweakers who are no longer active on this board, due in part I believe, to lack of encouragement from the other people who play OFF. I'm thinking primarily of fellow tweakers Fortiesboy, Buddeye, 33Lima, and LotharoftheHillPeople, among others.

 

/rant mode off

 

Edit: for clarity

Edited September 28, 2012 by Herr Prop-Wasche